1

Topic: Any plans for an iOS version?

I have a MacPro based mega studio but ever since I bought the large iPad Pro I've been doing a lot of work on it.

The iPad Pro is plenty powerful and it seems like PianoTEQ would be the perfect piano software to run on iOS. There are a great many very powerful synths now running on iOS but not as many good pianos. PianoTEQ would by far be the best iOS piano.

I use Notion iOS (which is actually great on iOS) and I generally start my day composing or arranging in it. I'll do some further sketching with GarageBand which can use AU instrument plugins now, or Cubasis and do some composing to get some ideas down before I head to the big studio to finish up.

With improvements made to iOS and now the iPad Pro it's no longer a toy. I never thought I'd say this but I'm getting serious work done on my iPad.

And further, as I carry it around with me, when I need to let someone hear demos or arrangements, thanks to iCloud sync that between the apps I have on both OS X and iOS I've basically got everything I'd have at my home studio with me and ready to edit and playback.

So it would be great to have PianoTEQ on iOS!

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

There's an already existing thread on this matter: http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=3654


Modartt doesn't seem to have this in their plans.

Hard work and guts!

3

Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

Is it that Modarrt doesn't have it in their plans, or isn't revealing if it's in their plans?

Maybe some of the beta testers know more than the rest of us, but it just seems that Modarrt has to be planning for it because:

1. The number of iOS devices is so much larger than the number of Mac OS (and PC) devices and will continue to be ever more so. Businesses should go where the customers (and their money) are.

2. The beauty of taking an iPad and plopping it on your music stand, connecting it (wirelessly? even better) to your keyboard, and having Pianoteq, your sheet music, and anything else you might want on your device, is just too convincing to have it not be a goal of any company in this type of business.

3. The beauty of taking an iPhone (or other phone) and being able to connect Pianoteq and a keyboard without having to carry virtually anything else with you is equally convincing.

4. If Modarrt doesn't provide this capability, other companies will and Modarrt will be left to the ever-dwindling PC (and Mac) market and become either a tiny niche player or fade away completely.

Modarrt's modeling quality and low computer requirements give them the possibility to dominate this (modeled software pianos) field if they act soon, but if not I predict that Roland, Yamaha, Kawai, or others (such as new sampled pianos) will get close enough in quality and dominate them in convenience (by making their models iOS compatible) that Modarrt will be left behind.

I have a shelf built into my keyboard stand which allows me to place a laptop or monitor behind my keyboard.  It works, but is an inconvenient kludge.  It would be SO MUCH BETTER to just drop an iPad Pro on the music stand as an overall experience that I refuse to believe Modarrt doesn't have this in their plans. Yes, they'd have to rejigger their pricing and sales model, but isn't that what companies do-- react to market developments? Just thinking of how they could market to public schools and new parents I think they'd be crazy to ignore the opportunity.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

Modartt isn't revealing its plans. Even to us beta testers - and there has been no talk about iOS whatsoever between us (I think I'm fairly safe to say that).

1. What if Modartt's projections are different, and they're quite satisfied with things as they are? Number of devices also adds up to customer support workload, and I'm not sure that Modartt's small team would like that. big_smile You can refuse to believe all you want, that doesn't make it more possible to happen, IMHO.

4. Overly enthusiastic thinking. Studio facilities will always be tied to desktops, which means there will ALWAYS be market for VST/AU plugins.

Also I wouldn't say Pianoteq has low requirements. If you want a decent piano performance (which means not hindered by polyphony, having lowest latency possible, and at least 44.1/48k sample rate), you still need a very decent CPU (preferably a quadcore, although a 3 GHz dualcore will be very nice too.

In any case, please continue in the original thread for this topic...

Last edited by EvilDragon (21-04-2016 18:43)
Hard work and guts!

5

Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

So now the iPhone 7 is out, and the A10 chip in the iPhone seems to be similar performance-wise to the A9X in the iPad Pro 12.9. These chips are already the equal of the Intel chips in the Macbook, and the A10X should surpass them completely when it comes out in the spring.  When will Modartt release an iOS version of Pianoteq?

I still think the time is right for Modartt to release an iOS version of Pianoteq for $40-$50 (Stage, 1 instrument), with additional instruments available for  $20-$30 available as in-app purchases, and an upgrade to Standard for another $50. The Korg Module takes this approach, selling for $40, with in-app purchases of $10 to $30 for additional instruments.  Synthogy's Ivory is available within Module, and iGrand and iElectric sound pretty good.

The sound and playability of the Module hasn't been universally loved, with latency too high and not enough velocity layers for gigging musicians. Korg still doesn't have space to use big sample libraries with lots of velocity layers on base models of iPhones and iPads, but with 128GB and 256GB models out, full versions of VST sampled instruments are now possible on iOS. Until that actually happens, Pianoteq still has an opening for first-mover advantage by offering the first truly professional-level digital piano available for iOS.

There are so many iOS devices sold annually that it just doesn't make sense for Modartt to not address this chance to vastly increase their sales and share of the market.

I've held off on buying Pianoteq as I'm waiting for an iOS version.  It really seems the way the future ought to be.

Last edited by tfort (13-09-2016 18:12)

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

Pianoteq is losing the chance to have first-mover advantage as the provider of high-quality pianos on iOS:
https://www.uvi.net/ravenscroft-275-piano.html

Works on iPhone 5 or new, iPad 4 or new. Less than a gig of disk space. Sampled sounds with additional modelling.

Mobile devices are getting good enough and fast enough to support sample-based complex software instruments such as pianos.  I still think Pianoteq's pure modelling approach would work better on mobile devices, but its potential advantage is beginning to go away.

On a related note, JUCE 5 has a lot of support for mobile devices, especially for android:
https://www.juce.com/releases/juce-5

Competition is good for the consumer, but I'd like for Pianoteq to be among the competitors...

Last edited by tfort (26-06-2017 19:14)

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

Your claim that the chips are already equal to those in MacBook is inaccurate, even the M3 (the slowest of the bunch) will beat ARM in everything which requires some serious FPU work.

Also unless iPad goes x86 (which I doubt)... I'd be very surprised Modartt comes up with a version for iOS anytime soon. Mind you that Modartt offers the product for Windows, MacOS AND Linux...

Last edited by Lucy (26-06-2017 19:51)

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

GeekBench 4 results (https://arstechnica.com/apple/2017/06/mini-review-the-2017-macbook-comes-into-its-own/ , 6/16/2017)

2017 iPad Pro 10.5 :
single-core floating point score: 3546
multi-core floating point score: 9686

2016 MacBook:
single-core floating point score: 3541
multi-core floating point score: 7064

2017 MacBook:
single-core floating point score: 3874
multi-core floating point score: 7571

I don't see which exact processors were used for the test; 2017 MacBook and 2017 iPad Pros reviews are just coming in and the early reviews are light on details.

The new iPad Pros beat the 2016 MacBook _Pros_ at overall multi-core Geekbench and aren't far behind the 2017 MacBook Pros. At single-core, the new iPad Pros are a bit behind both the 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pros. (http://barefeats.com/ipadpro2017.html)

My main machine running Pianoteq is a 2007 20" iMac. It has no issues running Pianoteq 5.8 Standard.  I can only find GeekBench 3 overall results for it, but they are 1134 and 1948 for single-core and multi-core.

Apple's chips in the new iPad Pros are clearly powerful enough to run Pianoteq.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

I already answered to this claim (use of benchmarks) elsewhere. My reply will be longer to set the records straight.

For more info see here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3006268/ … aptop.html

I will not accuse any companies to cheat... but when there is so much variations (see the benchmark in my link above) in term of scores we're at the same level as those charges leveled by AMD (on the more than expected friendliness between developers of some Benchmark tools and Intel).

Apple isn't the victim it once was. But just let it put it this way... suppose that you as a computer engineer work in the development of a new line of CPUs, and you know how much Benchmarks affect the choice of consumers. Suppose that you have sufficient material (don't tell me how) on what exactly is being tested. Imagine the potential to making a particular CPU efficient in a particular benchmark. When there is so much variability, we're dealing with selection bias to not call it collusion. smile

It is ridiculous to even believe that the benchmark you provide actually represent the real performance (particularly the FPU). For the simply reason that the ARM architecture isn't originally made to compete with x86 processors. If that was the case, Apple would have stopped dealing with Intel... we'd believe it learned a lesson with the PowerPCs it replaced.

See Apple new iPads cpus are like Golden Open acrylic painting tubes, slow drying attempting to mimic oil or better yet, water miscible oil paintings. To be able to compete other CPU, Apple has to deal with the fact that the natural ARM CPU isn't made to compete with x86... so it has rely on process and tweaks... which sucks on extra resources,... More iPad performances become closer to Intel CPUs, more $$$ is spent in the development and production and less efficient Apple is.

Now personally, I do not know if it is possible to have a version of Pianoteq on an iPad... what I know is that my recent Intel Celeron works considerably hard to run it, while it easily load samples.

The other tools on iPad are sample based, you can not use them as reference.

Last edited by Lucy (26-06-2017 22:56)

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

I respect some may not agree but being a user of a high end dual Mac Pro 24-core system (total cores), an iPad Pro and a MacBook Pro, and most importantly a huge and varied collection of DAWs, samplers, hosts (VEP), sample libraries, modeled instruments, convolution based products, VIs and synths, AudioBus related apps, etc etc, and a background in IT working at Apple and later a world class chip planning and fabrication facility, I'm somewhat confident in saying that PianoTeq could easily run on an A10x (and take advantage of the GPU that iOS provides if physical modeling could make use of such processing), if Moddart wanted to move in this direction.

I understand that the this thread should have been continued at the initial thread but since I'm still receiving notifications to my OP, (which people are still contributing to) , and I have an interest in seeing PianoTeq ported to iOS (as it's my daily piano on macOS and I use my iPad Pro about 30% for PRO use -  Notion iOS to sketch and playback full sized orchestral cues, LumaFusion for editing video content when I'm mobile in place of FCPX, Affinty on both iOS and macOS instead of Photoshop and Rec Multicam on the iPad Pro synced to 4 iPhones as cameras for multiple camera shoots), I firmly believe that in conjunction with iOS 11, the iPad Pro is a pro device that is more powerful than some people realize or want to believe, and is being positioned to be used by more professional studios and alongside upcoming 18-core iMacs and modular Mac Pros.

No doubt that the x86 based MacBook is a powerful pro tool, BUT (here's the thing), iOS as it starts to mature as a pro device (why would I take the time to share this with my friends in the music community if I did not believe it so?), with the wonderful ergonomics of a legal paper sized tablet (like a clipboard, perfect for carrying around, scoring and notating on, in rehearsals, using AirPrint to print out edits, and with its gesture abilities, macOS connectivity abilities, it's a composer's dream come true!!) It's quite powerful, flexible and efficient to use while moving around. The OS and CPU (and mentioned graphics), are READYMADE for PianoTeq! READYMADE!

This isn't hyperbole. This is what I do everyday for a living.

An iOS AU and AudioBus version of PianoTeq Standard (EVEN IF, even if it didn't, at first, have the sound quality of the macOS version, (which isn't the point on the first release), it would be such a welcome addition to the rich iOS music creation market even if classical and some old thinking pro (no dis-respect) don't yet see it.

Those that doubt, have you seen what Moog, Korg and Waldorf have accomplished with iOS apps? GO LOOK!!! If the iPad Pro can handle the Moog Model 15 (for $29.99), then PianoTeq (even with its number crunching needs), should be fine on an iPad Pro. But the Moog 15 and then reassess.

Why anyone would be resistant to an attempt by Moddart to release a unique version for iOS (even at $29.99 or $39.99), frankly I'm a bit amazed by the pushback. It makes no sense NOT to want PianoTeq iOS.

It really makes no sense. An iOS build can't be THAT hard to port. It just can't. Is the Apple App Store rules and rates? Didn't stop Moog and many many other developers. 

And no doubt with so many faithful PianoTeq users now owning powerful iOS devices (iPhone 6 and up, iPad Pro 1 and up), surely they'd see fairly quick ROI not to mention some cred from the growing fanatical iOS PRO users like myself. 

I admit that up until the iPad Pro it made no sense to do an iOS build. But with the A10x and iOS 11  ow upon us, it makes no sense not to, IMO.

Other companies are coming out with modeled pianos. But PianoTeq has a huge head start. Don't waste it!

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

nightwatch wrote:

It really makes no sense. An iOS build can't be THAT hard to port. It just can't.

It sure can if the physmod engine of Pianoteq depends on x86 ASM for direct optimizations rather than just C++ constructs. Which is not entirely unlikely, I think we can agree.

That, plus it would devalue the product a lot compared to its desktop variant, even compared to the most basic Stage - so it would need to be crippled in functionality even more than Stage (IMHO) to make up for difference in price. Nobody would buy a $99 iOS app for sure. And also, I would assume Modartt likes to receive their income in full rather than giving a chunk to somebody else that's not the state (income tax). Just an assumption of course, but not an unrealistic one, surely.

Combining the previous two possibilities, it would be a simple equation: is the time and effort necessary to do all the changes in the code necessary for the port to be possible (and target and support YET another platform, which although similar to macOS is NOT macOS at all) worth it for the product that would in the end be sold for less than even Stage, and is it worth it to give 30% away to Apple. Only Modartt can answer that for themselves, but I think their silence on this matter is enough telling.

But we'll see. To me it wouldn't be fair to just have it on iOS, why not have it on all mobile platforms then (hint hint, it's already possible on Surface, since there's no "special coding" necessary, which was a really great move by Microsoft IMHO - which leaves Android, but Android still has problems with low latency audio AFAIK).

Last edited by EvilDragon (27-06-2017 08:22)
Hard work and guts!

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

Lucy wrote:

I already answered to this claim (use of benchmarks) elsewhere. My reply will be longer to set the records straight.

For more info see here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3006268/ … aptop.html

I will not accuse any companies to cheat... but when there is so much variations (see the benchmark in my link above) in term of scores we're at the same level as those charges leveled by AMD (on the more than expected friendliness between developers of some Benchmark tools and Intel.

While somewhat true that Geekbench scores aren't completely reliable across platforms, (actually somewhat misleading) I can compare "almost apples to apples" as there are several macOS/iOS ports out there that would be "good enough" for testing. I can name quite a few that I own - Aurturia's modeled synths, Notion macOS vs Notion iOS in a playback challenge using built in sample sets, are two pro music creation examples I'd be glad to make a video about. In fact I plan on it. (Watch this space).

Now personally, I do not know if it is possible to have a version of Pianoteq on an iPad... what I know is that my recent Intel Celeron works considerably hard to run it, while it easily load samples.

The other tools on iPad are sample based, you can not use them as reference.

Yes, PianoTeq does require more number crunching than maybe some people realize. But I know PianoTeq can run on an A10x. Well, I base that on what Moog did with the Moog Model 15. STUNNING PORT!

Does PianoTeq iOS v.1 need to be as full featured as the pro version? No. Something like the standard version for now. Does it need to have the S/N ratio as the x86 version? No! Not at first. But it can be close.

Although the Aurturia synths are quite close and the Moog is awesome. The Notion iOS orchestral sample set is a bit noisy compared to the macOS version. But that's not the point (completely).

Yes, I'm sure Moddart wound want a very clean sounding product. I belie they can achieve that. Especially with the digital connection from iOS to macOS via Lightening to USB. Capture is clean.

Still of all of the great advantages the iPad Pro has, its best for me is the way I can carry it around in orchestral rehearsals like a clip board and with my Apple Pencil make edits while walking around, and printing parts via wifi on the spot. As a composer this is a KILLER feature that no laptop will ever have. Not even the Surface (still too big and clumsy compared to the 12.9" iPad Pro), which is a JOY to carry around.

I'll never go back to a MacBook (it helps I have a cluster of MacPros at my studio). But still, the iPad Pro had jacked my composing productivity up by 30%, I'd say.

Lastly, if Moog, Waldorf and Afinity consider it a pro device, it's earned a serious look and not a brush off by magizine articles that still don't know HOW to use the device in an everyday real world professional creative way.

I will end by saying I was initially envious of StaffPad for the Surface. But Notion iOS actually turned out to meet my real world demands. It's no toy. I will demonstrate in an upcoming video on my YouTube channel. I'll post a link here soon.

Btw, here are the audio codecs iOS uses.

Apple Lossless, AIFF, WAV, AAC, protected AAC (from iTunes Store), HE-AAC, MP3, MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3, 4, Audible Enhanced Audio, AAX, and AAX+),

And keep in mind that the digital output of recent iOS devices is 24-bit, 96k (last I checked and I assume this will climb to 32-bit, 192k at some point - doubt we'll actually need that). But since PianoTeq can output to at least 24/96, it's only fair to mention. Btw, Cubasis on iOS can internally mix and bounce to 24/96 as well so a PianoTeq iOS file will retain the 24/96 format.

Also it's possible to bypass Apple DACs and use your own. I use a MOTU iOS compatible interface.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

nightwatch wrote:

Not even the Surface (still too big and clumsy compared to the 12.9" iPad Pro), which is a JOY to carry around.

Come on, dude. The difference between Surface Pro 4 and iPad Pro is about 100 grams and 2 millimeters in thickness, and a few cm in other dimensions. Too big and clumsy? Differences are not THAT big. 100 grams less makes it a joy to carry around vs a chore? First world issues, and a pretty lame argument if one ever existed.

Here's a better argument: Surface has expandability via microSD, which I think is a MUCH more important factor than a few cm of difference etc. In every way it's a more pro product than iPad IMHO, especially since you don't have to pay a second time (no matter what the price is) to run the stuff you already own, since Surface doesn't use its own separate OS, so Pianoteq is a natural fit for Surface, along with your DAW (and there's nothing you can say that can discount this fact). Of course, if you're in too deep in Apple's kool-aid, there's probably no help for you. big_smile

Last edited by EvilDragon (27-06-2017 09:45)
Hard work and guts!

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

Pianoteq IOS version will be very practical for many reasons, but please Modartt, if you have plans for that version, no cripple Pianoteq please no matter price. Keep the same price just keep it as the way it is or better. I dont want compromise in sound and functionality.What is the reason to invest in IPAD if I don`t have top quality product for playing and recording ? There are already lots of 2 in 1 windows laptops. They are powerfull enough and small enough.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

slobajudge wrote:

There are already lots of 2 in 1 windows laptops. They are powerfull enough and small enough.

Exactly! That's all I am saying... As for request to keep it at the same price, I don't know if that is even possible given the restrictions imposed by Apple.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

nightwatch these are your personal choices, it does not mean its an efficient choice for others.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

nightwatch wrote:

I will end by saying I was initially envious of StaffPad for the Surface. But Notion iOS actually turned out to meet my real world demands. It's no toy. I will demonstrate in an upcoming video on my YouTube channel. I'll post a link here soon.

Nightwatch- have you looked at Komp (https://kompapp.com)? As an individual hobbyist, I'm against their subscription pricing. As a professional user, it might fit you well. I'd be curious to hear someone with your experience compare it to Notion.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

I've been waiting a while now for Pianoteq to decide whether they wanna come on over to the future which is iOS. 

I've never owned Pianoteq, would absolutely love to.

But refuse to purchase because I do not use laptops, cannot, will not, it's iOS all the way due to convenience and setup.

And the longer they wait, the less people like me want.

Ravenscroft iOS has literally blown the doors off any iOS piano app, and plays virtually identical to it's desktop powerhouse. 



So Pianoteq can either sit back and piddle around on another Steinway model "blah" while watching a massive market pass them by, or they can don their uniforms and jump aboard the iOS ship for the big win.  Inside every iPad is a Pianoteq just waiting to get out.

Last edited by Fscotte55 (20-07-2017 19:28)

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

Fscotte55 wrote:

I've been waiting a while now for Pianoteq to decide whether they wanna come on over to the future which is iOS.

Do you expect Apple to abandon MacOS in favor of iOS?

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
Fscotte55 wrote:

I've been waiting a while now for Pianoteq to decide whether they wanna come on over to the future which is iOS.

Do you expect Apple to abandon MacOS in favor of iOS?

Of course not. In fact Apple seems to have learned their lesson by treating macOS as a second class citizen the last few years.

I consider myself a Mac "power user" if you will, always buying flagship models (running several finially tuned Mac Pros at their full potential), but I also see that the iPad Pro is headed towards a gesture based pro device that's serious about power.

The current iPad Pro architecture is strong. As an owner of the original 12.9" iPad Pro I'm constantly amazed by how many power hungry synhs I can run at the same time while using the Lightning to USB cable as a digital audio connection for transferring synced submixes to my Mac Pros. (I do believe Apple needs to replace Lightening with USB C to utilize that speed).

But what's really important is the sheer quantity and quality of pro musical apps for iOS. The apps are not toys.

I didn't know Ravenscroft came to iOS. If true, not only would that be amazing but it would also make some of us really wonder what the good folks at PianoTeq are thinking.

iOS is not going to make macOS obsolete. I love the Finder way too much.

But I use my iPad Pro for about 30% of my overall workflow and if a developer won't make an iOS version I have to look elsewhere because I try to duplicate my macOS system on my iOS decice as much as I can.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

nightwatch wrote:

Of course not. In fact Apple seems to have learned their lesson by treating macOS as a second class citizen the last few years.

It doesn't seem that way to me.

I'm very grateful that Pianoteq runs (very well) on Linux, which is my preferred OS, and very happy with its performance, its configurability and its superlative instruments and sound, despite the fact that I own an iPad Pro (which I am using at this moment with an attached Apple keyboard to type this response).

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (20-07-2017 21:05)

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
nightwatch wrote:

Of course not. In fact Apple seems to have learned their lesson by treating macOS as a second class citizen the last few years.

It doesn't seem that way to me.

I'm very grateful that Pianoteq runs (very well) on Linux,..

The belated addition of the APFS is a big deal for macOS (even if it came after the iOS release). The project leader was the guy who wrote the file system for BeOS, so I have faith in him. I hope that Apple doesn't just do the bare minimum with the new file system, but we'll see.

I also think the announcements of the upcoming Mac Pro and iMac Xeon edition signal's Apple realization that they need flagship pro products to stay relative.

Maybe that's just optimism, but from this long time Mac user it's the best news I've heard from Apple since the Jobs' days.

I do like some distros of Linux, and it's great that PianoTeq is avaible for the platform. But like I said I've always liked the Finder and it's drag and drop experience. I only hope with APFS Apple will update the Finder and some of the drivers (appleRAID) to be a little more modern.

23

Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

iOS is starting to blossom with premium music development.  I already see 15GB piano libraries released supporting Audio Unit for iPad.  I think Pianoteq can shine here with the small file size and high quality.    Other devs like Korg are resisting the AU standard for their own ecosystem...a pain to customers and a deal breaker to me.  I have been toying with BeatMaker 3 on the 2017 iPad Pro and it is impressive.  I use only AU plugins as IAA and Audio Bus are really second-class solutions at this point.  If Modartt is willing to pursue this market, I would definitely buy in.  Just don't neglect Audio Unit, that's what experienced users are looking for.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

I bought the UVI Ravenscroft for iOS for $35.00. STUNNING! Well worth the money. It doesn't have multiple mics. It seems to have less velocity layers and by the sound of it, they're using something to help keep the dynamics very natural without the help of most of the tools of the desktop version. I made an extensive comparison and made a screen and audio recording of the whole thing, which I may post on my YouTube channel.

I find the arguments against the iPad Pro to be very weak. Yes, StaffPad is nice. But the bare file system of iOS just isn't a problem. The "Open in.." feature is very useful.

Anyway, if UVI could do it, I believe Modartt could too. Only now, I'm not sure that I need it.

Last edited by nightwatch (29-07-2017 16:35)

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

nightwatch wrote:

I bought the UVI Ravenscroft for iOS for $35.00. STUNNING! Well worth the money. It doesn't have multiple mics. It seems to have less velocity layers and by the sound of it, they're using something to help keep the dynamics very natural without the help of most of the tools of the desktop version. I made an extensive comparison and made a screen and audio recording of the whole thing, which I may post on my YouTube channel.

I find the arguments against the iPad Pro to be very weak. Yes, StaffPad is nice. But the bare file system of iOS just isn't a problem. The "Open in.." feature is very useful.

Anyway, if UVI could do it, I believe Modartt could too. Only now, I'm not sure that I need it.

I love that `STUNNING` word for about two (three?) times worst product than desktop version which happily running on about 200g more weight in some 13 laptop with i5 or i7 . Don`t say twice maybe you really convince yourself.

Last edited by slobajudge (29-07-2017 17:52)

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

slobajudge wrote:
nightwatch wrote:

I bought the UVI Ravenscroft for iOS for $35.00. STUNNING! Well worth the money. It doesn't have multiple mics. It seems to have less velocity layers and by the sound of it, they're using something to help keep the dynamics very natural without the help of most of the tools of the desktop version. I made an extensive comparison and made a screen and audio recording of the whole thing, which I may post on my YouTube channel.

I find the arguments against the iPad Pro to be very weak. Yes, StaffPad is nice. But the bare file system of iOS just isn't a problem. The "Open in.." feature is very useful.

Anyway, if UVI could do it, I believe Modartt could too. Only now, I'm not sure that I need it.

I love that `STUNNING` word for about two (three?) times worst product than desktop version which happily running on about 200g more weight in some 13 laptop with i5 or i7 . Don`t say twice maybe you really convince yourself.

I don't understand why you dislike the iPad Pro or iOS so much. I'm not a novice. I've owned Macs since the 80s and was an Apple employee in the 90s.

In my studio I use two 12-core Mac Pros running Digital Performer, Vienna Ensemble Pro and hundreds of tracks of the deepest multi-mic sample libs. So you're impression that I'm some Apple Sheepie who's buying into whatever Apple says is nonsense.

I use Notion iOS on my iPad Pro as my mobile device to scoring for orchestra and it works amazingly well. The handwriting recognition is excellent and it plays back a full orchestra just fine. The iPad Pad is much faster to compose one than a laptop.

Personally I've never liked Windows. I'd rather not use it. It's not as stable as macOS and probably never will be. I need to get work done. Not install maintenance updates. In the IT world the time to repair ratio between Windows and macOS is at minimum 4 to 1. That's based on 8 years of IT experience as a network supervisor in business and education. My friends in the IT world say that hasn't changed.

So what's the problem? I see a lot of iOS users requesting companies to make iOS versions of products. I don't see that going away.

I think the iPad Pro 3rd generation will be the iPad that has as much power as a decent laptop but it won't have the disadvantages that desktop CPUs have on mobile devices (although my first generation does just fine). And yeah, the size of the 12.9" iPad Pro is like holding a clipboard with notation paper on it. To me that's great. If you enjoying hating on it so much go ahead. But it's a serious work device for me.

27

Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

nightwatch wrote:

I don't understand why you dislike the iPad Pro or iOS so much. I'm not a novice. I've owned Macs since the 80s and was an Apple employee in the 90s.

In my studio I use two 12-core Mac Pros running Digital Performer, Vienna Ensemble Pro and hundreds of tracks of the deepest multi-mic sample libs. So you're impression that I'm some Apple Sheepie who's buying into whatever Apple says is nonsense.

I use Notion iOS on my iPad Pro as my mobile device to scoring for orchestra and it works amazingly well. The handwriting recognition is excellent and it plays back a full orchestra just fine. The iPad Pad is much faster to compose one than a laptop.

Personally I've never liked Windows. I'd rather not use it. It's not as stable as macOS and probably never will be. I need to get work done. Not install maintenance updates. In the IT world the time to repair ratio between Windows and macOS is at minimum 4 to 1. That's based on 8 years of IT experience as a network supervisor in business and education. My friends in the IT world say that hasn't changed.

So what's the problem? I see a lot of iOS users requesting companies to make iOS versions of products. I don't see that going away.

I think the iPad Pro 3rd generation will be the iPad that has as much power as a decent laptop but it won't have the disadvantages that desktop CPUs have on mobile devices (although my first generation does just fine). And yeah, the size of the 12.9" iPad Pro is like holding a clipboard with notation paper on it. To me that's great. If you enjoying hating on it so much go ahead. But it's a serious work device for me.

Where do you read that I dislike iOS or Ipad or call you a novice or something ? I love it, windows or mac or ios anything that bring progress. I dislike defective piano programs and in my previous post I talk about Ravenscroft for iOS vs desktop Ravenscroft. Most samples pianos are defective unfortunately, but at the moment vst pianos for iOS are worst and Ravenscroft for iOS is not exception, maybe better then others for iOS. Sounds like toys. I understand that you like it but honestly that `STUNNING` was irritating. Sorry. I only hope that Modartt will not release defective Pianoteq for iOS (if they) because I want full version no matter price or at least the same sound engine. If only Sport Billy bag exist I will pack inside my acoustic piano to always be with me. No compromises at least for me.

Last edited by slobajudge (29-07-2017 22:27)

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

The problem with many tablets (including iOS ones) is that they rely on multiple cores for processing power.

But Pianoteq only uses two cores for processing and that means you need reasonably powerful cores to do the processing.  Many tablets simply lack the CPU power to do this.  Quite cheap laptops manage fine, because many (but not all) of those use cheap Celeron and AMD CPUs with two cores that each have enough power.

But some laptops (as well as some tablets) use Atoms with multiple cores (four or more).  While these are fine for multi-threaded apps, they're not going to deliver enough CPU power to Pianoteq.

The highest rated Atom I know of has a single thread Passmark of about 340 with 4 cores, so about 680 "units" are available for Pianoteq.  Now Pianoteq will run on Celeron's like the N2840 (cheap laptops often use them) and that delivers a single thread rating of about 550, and two cores means about 1100 "units" available for Pianoteq.  Nearly twice what a good tablet will be able to provide.

So while the iOS fan club want an iOS version, the reality is that there are relatively few tablet owners that will have enough power to run Pianoteq.  It would require possibly quite a lot of rewriting to make Pianoteq use more than two cores, so it's a big investment to do that and I'd be very skeptical that the market is there for it.

So an iOS version seems unlikely.

Also note that Intel have stated they intend to produce CPUs with more cores, not faster cores.  This has to do with the need to manage power consumption on low power devices and also manage heat on the CPU die.  So faster CPUs are less likely on tablets in the future with CPU power coming from extra cores, I think.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

nightwatch wrote:

It's not as stable as macOS and probably never will be. I need to get work done.

EEEERP! Wrong answer.

I've been getting work done without a single crash ever since Windows 7. Day in, day out, pushing the system hard with all sorts of processing. Not a single hitch, ever. So take your preconceptions elsewhere. wink

As an added benefit, I like to be able to run some 20+ years old programs that might not have more modern or as good replacements (example: some really flexible editors for some of my synths, like emagic's (RIP) editor for Kawai K5000, or a REALLY great editor for Yamaha AN1x that's back from W95/98 era, etc. - they all still work just fine in the latest W10!), without the need to install virtual machines and whatnot, instead of bowing down to Apple's planned obsolence schemes and breaking stuff in OS updates ("your program won't work on this new version of our OS, because f**k you, that's why!"), that have become all too familiar in the last years.

sjgcit wrote:

But Pianoteq only uses two cores for processing

That's really not the case. Pianoteq is definitely using more than two cores over here, at any time!

Last edited by EvilDragon (30-07-2017 09:40)
Hard work and guts!

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

EvilDragon wrote:
nightwatch wrote:

It's not as stable as macOS and probably never will be. I need to get work done.

EEEERP! Wrong answer.

I've been getting work done without a single crash ever since Windows 7. Day in, day out, pushing the system hard with all sorts of processing. Not a single hitch, ever. So take your preconceptions elsewhere. wink

As an added benefit, I like to be able to run some 20+ years old programs that might not have more modern or as good replacements (example: some really flexible editors for some of my synths, like emagic's (RIP) editor for Kawai K5000, or a REALLY great editor for Yamaha AN1x that's back from W95/98 era, etc. - they all still work just fine in the latest W10!), without the need to install virtual machines and whatnot, instead of bowing down to Apple's planned obsolence schemes and breaking stuff in OS updates ("your program won't work on this new version of our OS, because f**k you, that's why!"), that have become all too familiar in the last years.

Believe what you want. It's not a preconception about Windows downtime. It's been well documented. Every mixed environment IT person knows that repair times for Windows vs OS X are anywhere from 4:1 to 8:1 depending on the year and the circumstances. I was a Network Admin at Motorola for a group of 500 mixed users. Saw it all the time.

If it works for you, great. I don't really care to rehash very old arguments. For me it ended in the late 90s when Job's brought NeXTStep to Apple and rebuilt the company. You're an educated end user and not typical. But I've seen users go through nightmares because they didn't know enough about Windows to troubleshoot it. Anyway, old argument. I'll leave it to the nuts on YouTube.

Personally I've never had a problem with Apple upgrades. Planned obsolesce? That's just propaganda by Apple's competition. It just goes with the territory when you make the hardware and software. I have all of my iPhones and iPads from the first generation and they still work. In fact I still use a pair of iPhone 5s for multi camera shoots. I have a 2003 Apple PowerMac G5 that I use as a transitional server (it draws too much power to be a good residential server these days). But it runs like a champ. I have a beautiful 1990 Mac Classic running System 7.1.2 that runs MOTU's Unisyn if I ever need an old librarian. I've completely rebuilt my 2009 Mac Pros with more modern Xeons, faster memory, m.2 PCie RAIDs, etc etc. It's fast and reliable. (Each is actually faster than the 12-core trashcan Mac Pros in most ways). They'll last a good long time and they're still plenty fast enough.

So, it's only planned obsolesce if you allow it to be that way, which I don't.

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Re: Any plans for an iOS version?

Apple with oranges is being compared here. Apple makes both the Hardware and the OS while in the case of Microsoft the hardware is mostly built by other companies, it's way harder to keep up. Apple is well aware of such an advantage from its own past when it killed its clone market (Power Computing, Motorola, etc.).

Another factor is that there is way more software on Windows, which increases the risk of something going bad.