iOS Version for iPad? Apparently someone thinks it's worth it ... (Page 1 of 2)

Certainly, acknowledged, but iPad, in its Air 2 form especially, is quite a powerful tablet now - triple core 1.5GHz with 2GB memory.

You only have to see what iPad can do shaping sounds with, for example, the amazing Turnado FX-processor to know it's a formidably powerful hardware product now, backed up with a stable efficient operating system. t a

Whatever your position on that, KORG's product represents competition:

If i want a portable piano for use with a controller keyboard, i can forego a laptop and take an iPad!

Sorry, perhaps I should have posted to prior thread, but my post was just to highlight the launch of an interesting competing product ... (I am a fully paid up happy user of Pianoteq on Mac btw)

No need to apologize at all. Thanks for the reference. If it sounds as good as the previews promise, I will be a customer, since I really do need a decent sounding piano on my Ipad. (And feel compelled to add that I am a paying user for Pianoteq as well, from version 2 onwards, no less).

I myself have never heard of a decision by Modartt concerning Ios, or indeed by Korg as quoted, but others will know better.

Nor have I.  I have to assume that the lack of an official position means they are still considering it and are working on one.  So it's likely just a matter of time.  I would be very surprised if they didn't have a working iOS prototype of Pianoteq in their labs as we speak.

Of course another possible translation of this message could be:

We're not commenting on unannounced products because there are laws that prohibit us from doing so.  But one is coming because we see plenty of interest for it.

To quote the great William: thy wish was father to that thought. And 4-6 people per years asking in the forums are not 'plenty of interest', at least not if you would have to probably invest along the lines of 1-5 person years into the product (i.e., a six-figure sum).

I know of absolutely no law prohititing a company from announcing a far-off product. In fact this is common business practice when a firm fears their customer base will go to the competition. There is even a term for products that are announced and never released: vapour-ware. In my very humble opinion, 'laws that prohibit us from doing so' are non-existent. The only reason for saying 'we cannot say if/when' about something while actually preparing to do it is when you want to keep the competition in the dark, but... what competition? All the other pure modelling solutions are hardware-based, all the other software solutions are hybrids.

Sample-based iPad solutions are not exactly new. Maybe the Korg thingy will be better than what exists right now. What better time for Modartt to yell 'we are developing a product as well, just wait'? This is what is usually done, at least. And if Modartt really wanted to hint that they are actually putting effort into a project, then this would sound rather different, I am pretty sure: this would be something along the lines of 'we are currently investigating the possibility of releasing a version for platform X in the near future'.

Announcing a product that does not exist to gain a competitive advantage is illegal via Section 2 of the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890.

Not saying people don't do this.  But it is illegal at least in the United States.

I don't care if you think it's relevant or not.  There are plenty of examples where this has been an issue. Companies that do business in the US need to heed these laws.  This is business 101. 

Some examples of recent activity can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

Read the section on antitrust allegations.

Hey, it's not mentioned in the FAQ.  Must not be that important.

The issue is not whether or not it can be proven.  But once you open yourself up to potential litigation, that can be expensive.  So why take that risk when all you need to do is not talk about unannounced products.  Which was my original point.  Enough said.

I would translate it as " We aren't able to say"  Google translates "We don't know"  as  "Nous ne savons pas",  "Nous ne connaissons pas", ou "On ne sait pas".  I would agree with all of these.

Pour moi, je l'aime le son de Pianoteq

There is a contradiction in your attitude. You are questioning why there is so much demand for the iPad version (given that a forum is a fair sample of a larger statistical base of users), but stating that there isn't much demand. Which is it?

In my opinion, your viewpoint sounds like someone who does not personally desire nor understand something so therefore assumes a market doesn't exist for it, even though all pointers indicate that it does. Don't wallow in the status quo.

Let's just look at Kawai and their VPC 1. They were the first big manufacturer to enter this market. But people were saying for many many years, "when will someone make a keyboard controller with realistic piano action specifically for piano sample/modelling libraries?" Loads of people said there was no market for them, just as you are doing here. Kawai eventually releases such a keyboard with no other bell or whistles, purely for Virtual Piano instruments and it sells far far beyond their expectations such that it has been on back-order for 8 months. Said naysayers were wrong.

It is obvious to anyone with any foresight that iPad's or other tablets are the way to go as far as Pianoteq style piano instruments are concerned. Having a laptop specifically for pianoteq is a pricey pfaff. However, dedicating an iPad to the task is not unrealistic. Particularly since they are already used everyday by professional musicians to house and display their music manuscripts for their piano repertoire. iPads take up very little room, modestly priced and are basically wasted potential when all they are used for is distraction. They are capable tools and many software developers should take their head out of the sand and realise this. Oh and did I mention the user base for iOS is HUGE?

That is why people will continue to create threads asking when Modarrt will bring it out. That is why people such as myself will actually create a username for themselves solely to respond to posts questioning the size of the prospective market.

Regarding affordabilty, I would prefer an Android tablet version assuming the Android tablets are more or less equally capable with the Apple's.

It definitely would be more convenient if we could run high-end VSTs on tablets.  The latest mobile CPUs are creeping near the entry-level x86 desktop CPU performance (not counting Bay Trail) so we're getting close to the necessary processor power.  Might need another 2 years before there's enough of the latest tablets in end user hands.

I wouldn't like paying the extra 43% for Apple or Google to take their 30% cut for apps published through their stores -- but perhaps it would be worth it to reduce the clutter as I have an entire shelf sitting behind my DP for the speakers + laptop + 25" monitor.

It all depends on how big of a chunk those travelling musicians are compared to the "regular" Pianoteq customers. I reckon they are a minority.

Maybe it wouldn't be such a big loss for Modartt.

I use sometimes Pianoteq with my Windows 8 tablet (Acer Iconia 510). It works very well. Though 2-core 1.8Gzh CPU works at 50-70% while playing passages and long pedaling, I have very rare problems with CPU overloading. That's why I can understand Ipad users, who want to have PT on their tablets. It is very convenient: there is so much problems with transfering my big Samsung laptop, but tablet is small, light and works without power supply for a long time. I also had no problems with latency through usb-port.

GRB, in my opinion, Windows 8 is much better than Android and Ipad for professional purposes - you can use any software that supports Windows. It means almost everything (for example, Pianoteq)) Ipad and Android are more entertaining devices.

I'd buy the app!
I keep checking every so often on their site. Who knows?
I have a feeling they are brewing something together. It is high time...

I'm a very happy Pianoteq user and have been for sometime. Although i'd really like it adapted to the iPad or Android in the future, it works perfectly well on my touchscreen laptop which I've made a shelf for above my piano for easy access. I've tried using the Korg app on my mates iPad Air and have to agree, I wasn't that impressed overall, Pianoteq is far better and truer sounding. I've always been an Android user but like others have mentioned, you tend to see latency issues so I suppose I'd have to look at purchasing an iPad if an app did materialize. I've just bought a digital Roland V-Piano from an online auction in pretty much mint condition. It's improved my pianoteq experience tenfold so I'm just enjoying having a play and trying out new sounds. Looking forward to the next release and even more features but very happy with my current setup and want to thank Pianoteq for such a great product.

Fred.

I assume Modartt hasn't come out with an iPad version yet because they don't have iOS programming expertise and they're worried about their business model (i.e. iOS apps in general sell for far less than Mac OS apps).

I'd love to see an iOS version of Pianoteq, and I think the time is right in the industry for them to do it, if Modartt can do the programming.

The reason I think the time is right is that recent iPads have (I believe) enough power to run the full Modartt Pianoteq software model.  Perhaps only the new iPad Pro does, but the iPad Air 2 and iPad Mini 4 are pretty capable, and the iPad Air 3 (as well as the iPhones 6 and new 4" iPhone 5se) all should feature the A9 or A9X processor.  So, this year the recent iOS devices have taken and new iOS devices will continue to take large strides in advancing their processing power, and should have the capability to run Pianoteq 5.5 or 6.

Pianoteq's competition, on the other hand, the big sampled virtual pianos, require a huge amount of disk space or memory.  Only the top-end versions of the iPhones 6, iPad Pro, iPad Air 2, and iPad Mini 4 have even 128GB of storage. Synthogy's American Concert D requires 50 GB of space (and requires the infuriating iLok). Best Service's Galaxy Vintage D seemingly requires much less but recommends 2GB RAM, which is also only on the newest and top-end iOS devices for now. So the storage requirements of the high-end sampled pianos make it difficult to use them on iOS devices, especially as their memory and storage also are used up by other software.

But, in a few years 128 GB of storage will drop down to the mid-tier iOS devices, or possibly even be the standard. 2GB of RAM or more is likely to be standard soon.  In that case there will be no reason that the latest and greatest sampled virtual pianos couldn't be played even from an iPhone.

So it seems to me that Modartt has a window of opportunity that will last this year and maybe another one or two after that, when their product can play well on iOS devices and their competitors can't.  If they jump in now, they can get a first-mover advantage and become established in the iOS software piano space.

As to price, I'd think Modartt would offer the Stage version and one instrument for $40-$50, with in-app purchases to add instruments and capabilities.  I'd like to see full Stage for that price, and Standard for $100 on iOS, but that would affect the market for their Mac OS/PC versions... Perhaps they could make it up by offering a discount on the Mac/PC version if you also owned the iOS version, prompting many users to buy both versions?

I really hope Modartt has seen this window of opportunity beginning to open for them and has planned something for us soon.  If not, I suspect lower-priced sampled pianos will enter the iOS market soon and they in turn will have first-mover advantage.

That's my analysis-- wish I knew how much iOS expertise Modartt had on board or could afford to acquire...

I perfectly agree! I have mentioned PTQ to several people who keep arguing that a Laptop is just too much of a hassle
for performances. They take the easy route and use the sounds on their keyboards.

Imho this is a major short-coming concerning sound, at least when a piano sound is needed, and personally I would add the laptop.
But sometimes even small obstacles can be decisive.

Offering an iOS version of that runs on an iPad (even only the Pro) may thus open the door to a much wider use of PTQ.

All this being my personal impression and opinion, of course.

It sure DOES depend on OS support, or better said, Modartt depends heavily on the framework they use (JUCE) to support all the changes in various OS updates and so on. There's a lot of difference in how a GUI is constructed on Windows vs OSX - the framework needs to handle that with no fail. And it's no small feat to achieve that - which is why JUCE took years and years to develop by a ninja coder of sorts.

An interesting thread people!

I'm from a generation who remember when the most appalling synths and keyboards used to cost thousands so I cannot help grinning when people start bemoaning amazing products at 21st century prices :-)

My concerns with Pianoteq and iOS would be more to do with the latency/performance issue - a fantastic piano model and 12Ms latency seems like running a Porsche on square wheels.
But if Modartt can achieve low latency & a quality product with a cross grade/ dual license option then I don't see why it's not viable. Only they know how much effort would be involved in such a project (I'm just a piano player!).
I'd only point out they there are threads here with users asking how they can get a lightweight convenient laptop to use Pianoteq on their gigs. The best thing I've found so far is a Receptor, but these aren't cheap so maybe it's more cost effective to have an iPad & a (relatively) expensive App?
But now I think it through, you'd also need a decent audio/midi interface (I use the Focusrite iTrack which is excellent, so the costs add up whichever way you look at it.
(But it's all cheaper and lighter than a concert grand :-)

Where is the app Modartt? Come on... I'm waiting impatiently. It's high time

According to test the CPU in the iPad pro in single CPU benchmarks is up to or even tops the i5 in the Surface Pro 4. (which has a mobile dual-core i5 latest generation)
I use Pianoteq on a Surface Pro 3 with i5 which is slower than the i5 in the Pro 4.
Of course, how will the iPad perform under constant CPU load, I do not know. but the gap between mobile CPUs and Core-i is not that huge anymore, according to benchmarks.

Of course, from the developer side iPad can be is something different than Mac or Windows. and also pricing might get difficult ....

just my thoughts

best