Topic: Question on bass before buying

Hi,

I have tried the demo version on PianoTeq6, using it over MIDI to my Kawai CA63 digital piano.

I like the piano sound of PianoTeq very much apart from one area and I would therefore like to get some clarification before I commit to buying.

The problem I appear to be having is with the deepness of the bass.

So. I am playing over decent headphones, and recording using PianoTeq. During play, I feel the bass is not deep/resonant enough. It is not as deep sounding as the native sounds of my digital piano. However, after I have finished recording and i export to MP3 format, then on playing back the bass is deeper and more resonant - over the same headphones!

So I'm not sure what the problem is but the lack of bass whilst playing is an issue for me. I'm not sure why it would then be percieved as ok when converted and played back in MP3 format.

Thanks

Re: Question on bass before buying

What program are you using to play back the MP3? Perhaps it is adding equalization or f/x.

Last edited by Groove On (13-10-2018 15:46)

Re: Question on bass before buying

Just Windows 10 native player. My headphones have no issue playing deep bass notes when watching you tube etc either, and if I listen to samples of PianoTeq playing (eg this review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIS3OnTwpHg) then the bass is lovely and resonant. I just don't hear the same depth of bass when I play myself in PianoTeq.

Oh I should also add Ive played the MP3 file through my DP itself as well, and the bass is just fine there as well. Its when Im actually playing is the issue.


If I play the inbuilt 'blues demo' in PianoTeq itself, the bass is ok there too:

https://i.imgur.com/1nKnnwa.png

But if I play a note, its weak! I don't get it at all and its very frustrating. The best way I can describe it is that when I am playing myself the bass is tinny, like its being played through a tiny speaker or over the radio. No deepness to it, no booming.

Last edited by danlightbulb (13-10-2018 16:10)

Re: Question on bass before buying

Well Ive been messing around with settings, reinstalled drivers for my PC soundcard, and I just can't get it to work.

Using my headphones, PianoTeq sounds very 'tinny' at the bass end. Yet if I listen to a simple youtube video or play an MP3, through the same headphones, I get lovely deep bass notes.

Something wrong here.

Re: Question on bass before buying

What happens if you click on the virtual keyboard at the bottom of Pianoteq ?

Re: Question on bass before buying

Gaston wrote:

What happens if you click on the virtual keyboard at the bottom of Pianoteq ?

Its the same.

Someone else suggested to boost the EQ on the bass but this doesn't solve it. The best way I can try to describe it is that the deep bass resonance, after the initial strike, is missing completely. So when I boost the bass on the EQ it doesn't solve it, because that deep, lingering, warm, bass is not there in the first place. Does that make sense?

Re: Question on bass before buying

Ive tried to replicate what I am hearing in audacity so I can show you guys.

The video demo of the Ant Petrof that I posted earlier, here is the sound of the first bit of playing. I can hear lovely deep resonant, warm bass here, through my headphones.

https://soundcloud.com/dan-haire-958667...-ant-piano

However, this is essentially what I hear when I play bass notes on my piano via PianoTeq. I applied a low pass filter, and its killed all the lovely warm bass. That's the effect I am getting in PianoTeq.

https://soundcloud.com/dan-haire-958667...o-low-pass


Its hard to replicate exactly what Im hearing. The low pass filter has also killed the initial attack of the bass, which I still hear, I just hear nothing after.

Last edited by danlightbulb (13-10-2018 17:31)

Re: Question on bass before buying

Hi danlightbulb,

From the Pianoteq FAQ page, scrolling to "Getting started: installing software and drivers":

Pianoteq FAQ re specific software drivers wrote:

If you use a PC, you will need to install ASIO drivers. This makes it possible to play back in real time from a keyboard, so that when you press a key on the keyboard, the sound will be heard immediately (with just a few milliseconds delay). Usually, ASIO drivers will be installed automatically during the driver installation of the soundcard. However, some budget soundcards (usually internal ones) do not offer ASIO drivers. It is then possible to use third-party ASIO drivers, such as ASIO4ALL, with various results.

Also check the Pianoteq manual (Nicely improved lately BTW!), section 2.1 begins with "installing and starting Piantoeq" - some info re ASIO4ALL (Downloadable from asio4all.com), details about required specifications and things to do to tailor to your hardware.

Hope that's heading in the right direction.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Question on bass before buying

I'm using ASIO4ALL and have set it up according to the instructions. I'm hearing sound, I have very low latency, its just not as rich at the bass end as I was expecting.

I wonder if this issue is because of unrealistic expectations. The youtube videos of pianos playing, and of pianoteq demos, might not be realistic in themselves because of post processing or lots of expensive EQ equipment going on.

In that video of the Ant Petrof I posted near the top of the thread, listen to the first 30 seconds using good speakers or headphones. You'll hear a very warm deep resonant bass that lingers well beyond the notes being held. Is that how it should sound out of the box or not? Is that how a real accoustic piano sounds if you were playing it? Or is this only when recorded and post processed that it sounds like this?

Re: Question on bass before buying

Phil Best is member of this forum (Phil Best being his user name), I suggest you ask him by forum e-mail about the settings he used in his video.

Re: Question on bass before buying

Thanks for that suggestion, I have contacted him and he replied (thanks Phil if you read this).

However, he says if anything the bass is too strong and he lowers it using the EQ!

How can this be? Do individual soundcards (I'm using an inbuilt soundcard on the motherboard) reproduce sound differently? Would my soundcard, for some inexplicable reason, be processing sound differently through the ASIO driver via Pianoteq than when watching a youtube video via the Windows drivers?

Re: Question on bass before buying

danlightbulb wrote:

Thanks for that suggestion, I have contacted him and he replied (thanks Phil if you read this).

Would my soundcard, for some inexplicable reason, be processing sound differently through the ASIO driver via Pianoteq than when watching a youtube video via the Windows drivers?

I don't see how that could happen (try different drivers in case), but are you sure you are using default settings in Pianoteq? When something has been altered, the preset name appears in italics. Make sure it is not the case, as well as to use the standalone version to be sure no host interferes.

Re: Question on bass before buying

Tinny sounds in Pianoteq Standalone occur whenever the MIDI file played within it contains any number of extraneous MIDI messages (Bank Select, Program Change, Controller, Etc.).  Maybe you need to check the latest MIDI messages that appear in the Pianoteq Options window and under the MIDI heading  —for the keyboard controller messages that have been sent.  If you mouse click on a message you’ll have display options presented to you, including the one that clears the message window for you to start a new list and view only the most recent MIDI messages from your keyboard playing.

When sometimes I get a tinny sound, along with a modified preset name italicized, in the Pianoteq Options window, the selection Minimalist, for, Global MIDI Mapping, alleviates such occurrences altogether.  For any preset to return though to its original unmodified settings, on the preset name, a minimum two (2) second long mouse click is necessary.

Last edited by Amen Ptah Ra (22-10-2018 16:52)
Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.

Re: Question on bass before buying

I was playing around with most of my Pianoteq pianos; different song for each.  I tried out the Petrof with Arabesque, Debussy.
My wife said she liked that sound very much . . . . at the time it was, I thought, lacking somewhat in dynamic range, so I changed it and the volume upwards and it came to life.
She might not like it now . . . . .

I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order

Re: Question on bass before buying

Have you gotten off topic?

Pianoteq 8 Studio Bundle, Pearl malletSTATION EM1, Roland (DRUM SOUND MODULE TD-30, HandSonic 10, AX-1), Akai EWI USB, Yamaha DIGITAL PIANO P-95, M-Audio STUDIOPHILE BX5, Focusrite Saffire PRO 24 DSP.