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Topic: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Dear Pianoteq customers,

Next week (Wednesday the 13th) we will announce the release of our first organ model by the name Organteq Alpha.
It is a new generation physically modelled pipe organ that reproduces the complex behaviour of the organ flue pipe.


https://www.pianoteq.com/images/organteq/organteq-interface-640x360.jpg


Organteq Alpha is a small organ with a keyboard range of 4 octaves (from F1 to F5) and with 2 stops: a Flute 8' and a Flute 4' (octave).
It is provided for free as a foretaste of a more advanced commercial version to be released during 2018.

As an early Christmas gift, we already now let all Pianoteq customers download Organteq Alpha, available in the user area at https://www.pianoteq.com/user_area

We hope you will enjoy it! Comments are welcome.

/The MODARTT team



Cesar Franck - Prelude, Variation and Fugue op 18 - D. Siu

https://youtu.be/LUhMvNjxqQ8

https://youtu.be/JxmmuNFyCnY

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

What a great Christmas present, thanks Modartt! Can't wait to try it...

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

So are we going to taste hammonds, farfisas etc. in the near future?

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Nope, pipe organs only. smile There are plenty of excellent tonewheel and transistor organ emulations out there already.

Last edited by EvilDragon (06-12-2017 14:49)
Hard work and guts!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

That's nice.
Thank you Modartt.

If people liked it a lot, maybe Modartt can cogitate to create a even larger version for sale than the actual plans for market.

Last edited by Beto-Music (06-12-2017 15:48)

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Not sure if it my comment will make sense, but since Modartt are now developing algorithms for tubes and pipes, what about create a organ preset to sound like a panflute ?

Panflute it's made of wood but are basically just tubes, and sounds interesting :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQgp-w-TXjQ

Last edited by Beto-Music (06-12-2017 18:46)

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

That's a surprise) Unexpectedly!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

and a very nice one, really ! Thank you Modartt !!!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Sounds nice! Unfortunately my os seems to old, running OSX snow leopard 10.6.8, needs 10.7 to work.
Modartt, will it stay like this or will Organteq support snow leopard as Pianoteq does?
As some other people I don't want to move from 10.6.8 to make music and a lot of software start to disappear... so sad sad

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Niclas- I’m sure Mario is in the beta (alpha?) testing group and his statement is an accurate reflection of current plans, but I’d like to put in a word for a modeled tonewheel organ.

Also, are the plans to release Organteq as a new program, or as an instrument for Pianoteq? Assuming the former based on the name, would a tonewheel instrument be a possibility in the future?

Perhaps Pianoteq has a larger base of users playing classical music who would be drawn to a pipe organ, but it seems there is a recent resurgence of hardware and software tonewheel instruments. Personally I have no interest in a pipe organ, but would love a modelled tonewheel organ which was easy enough on computer resources that it could play well with MainStage in addition to Pianoteq.

PS - When I saw the thread title, I thought it was an old April Fools Day thread brought back to life...

Last edited by tfort (06-12-2017 22:32)

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

”Comments are welcome”, so here is my. Thank you, Modartt! Sounds more than nice - extremly good. I can explain what I have experienced. I have some organ apps in my ipad, StrandOrgan, Jeux d'orgues by Markus Sigg (sounds like the Organ in church Romanswiller, Wasselonne, Alsace, France, the style of Stiehr-Mockers) and some other. And I have tried many churchorgans, with flute 8 and 4, in different places. But, when I was playing this Organoteq, I was totally pleasantly surprised. It sounds like the small organs I have tried in different churches. Modelled pipeorgan - for me, the best. I recorded a piece of music with it, but then I listened to this Bach music, so I dont upload it.  Congratulations Modartt! Waiting for the more advanced commercial version to be released during 2018.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

tfort wrote:

Niclas- I’m sure Mario is in the beta (alpha?) testing group and his statement is an accurate reflection of current plans, but I’d like to put in a word for a modeled tonewheel organ.

Personally I have no interest in a pipe organ, but would love a modelled tonewheel organ which was easy enough on computer resources that it could play well with MainStage in addition to Pianoteq.

GSI VB3 is the old contender (REALLY easy on CPU, still sounds absolutely great).

GG Audio Blue3 is the new contender. Also sounds great!

Last edited by EvilDragon (06-12-2017 23:31)
Hard work and guts!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Wow!  That is way-cool.  Not only can I get two register sound differences with the virtual stop to the left of the virtual keyboard, but if I pull my real stop under the left of my real keyboard, I get both an acoustic piano and a virtual organ simultaneously - four instruments for the price of none!

(Thanks for the Cool Gift - sounds great with House of the Rising Sun)

David

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Very cool. Just downloaded it... Thank you!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Thank you Modartt !
Downloaded it yersterday.
Unable to launch Organteq with the Asio driver of my Scarlett 6i6 (W7) : Organteq crashes.
Works perfectly with Windows audio.
As I have two keyboards, I can launch two instances of organteq (8 'and 4'), so I feel like playing a real organ.
I'm eagerly waiting for a vsti version and at least one 16' stop !

Last edited by Gaston (07-12-2017 12:49)

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Not a 2 keyboard organ I think.... but cool idea

Last edited by Kramster1 (07-12-2017 12:22)

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

I couldn't instal Organteq. I use Windows 7 but the file get error while trying to run the instalation.

This is a small organ (I supose the next will be a larger organ). Someone in one video complained saying it wasn't very natural, but I imagine he confused how a small pipe organ is compared to a huge model.

Last edited by Beto-Music (07-12-2017 14:26)

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

If you encounter any crash/bug, please report it to our support team here:
https://www.pianoteq.com/support_form

We have updated the software and will do so continuously for a while.
Please download again from the user area in case you find any issues.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

A wonderful surprise. Love the 4' sound, the 8' flute sounds a bit "tubby and soft" through my system. I have so far done my organ playing (Sweelinck, Pachelbel, JS Bach etc), via Hauptwerk, on the Mariakerk, Oosterwijtwerd instrument and also the 1636 organ of San Carlo, Brescia. Manuals only - my footwork is limited to sustain pedals etc. Presumably the instrument will have a limited number of registers and compass, so that registration changes can be made via the unused notes as per alpha version, as I do with the Ruckers. Modartt may do the usual magic with more global changes via the pedals. (I also use the central and right pedals for reverting to lower and upper 8's for playing the continuous French rondeaux.) The Oosterwijtwerd has a very fine sound: a friend of a friend heard me playing the Pachelbel Aria Sebaldina; he came from that area and said it was like walking into the church. I am sure Modartt is capable of producing a similar small instrument which sounds at least as good and with the facility to tweak. I have found organising registration/manual changes in Hauptwerk difficult.

Questions, which Modartt may choose not answer of course. Is the alpha version equal temperament? Not an expert at all, but it didn't quite sound like it. Will different temperaments/pitches be available? (Sure they will) Action sounds - e.g. tracker action on/off, registration changes etc? Registration/sound can be tweaked to emulate small instruments from, say, 17th century to the present?

An exciting future ahead on this front!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Gaston wrote:

Unable to launch Organteq with the Asio driver of my Scarlett 6i6 (W7) : Organteq crashes.


Hello Gaston, we tried with the same soundcard (Scarlett 6i6) and the ASIO driver on Windows 7, and everything went well. You can try to update/resintall the driver.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Very good. You are very competent. Of course you will put varying instruments and presets, as is done in Pianoteq. Thus, an instrument that can not be missing is Hammond or a similar preset, which has rotary. I like to use organs in jazz, blues and gospel.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

EvilDragon wrote:
tfort wrote:

Niclas- I’m sure Mario is in the beta (alpha?) testing group and his statement is an accurate reflection of current plans, but I’d like to put in a word for a modeled tonewheel organ.

Personally I have no interest in a pipe organ, but would love a modelled tonewheel organ which was easy enough on computer resources that it could play well with MainStage in addition to Pianoteq.

GSI VB3 is the old contender (REALLY easy on CPU, still sounds absolutely great).

GG Audio Blue3 is the new contender. Also sounds great!

Is Blue 3 completely modelled? I had forgotten that. Have you compared Blue 3 to Acoustic Samples' B5 (sampled/modelled hybrid)? The new v2.2 is supposed to cut down on resource usage, but before that v2 was reportedly pretty CPU instensive. If you know, I'd be curious to hear how they compare. No interest in VB3; 32-bit is dead to me.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Kramster1 wrote:

Not a 2 keyboard organ I think.... but cool idea

Why not ? I play as if it were a two-manual organ, each keyboard playing his own stop in his own Organteq instance.
My keyboards are a Studiologic SL990Pro (88 keys) and a Roland A49 (49 keys)
The only difference with a real organ is that no real organ has a 88keys keyboard... smile

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

tfort wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
tfort wrote:

Niclas- I’m sure Mario is in the beta (alpha?) testing group and his statement is an accurate reflection of current plans, but I’d like to put in a word for a modeled tonewheel organ.

Personally I have no interest in a pipe organ, but would love a modelled tonewheel organ which was easy enough on computer resources that it could play well with MainStage in addition to Pianoteq.

GSI VB3 is the old contender (REALLY easy on CPU, still sounds absolutely great).

GG Audio Blue3 is the new contender. Also sounds great!

Is Blue 3 completely modelled? I had forgotten that. Have you compared Blue 3 to Acoustic Samples' B5 (sampled/modelled hybrid)? The new v2.2 is supposed to cut down on resource usage, but before that v2 was reportedly pretty CPU instensive. If you know, I'd be curious to hear how they compare. No interest in VB3; 32-bit is dead to me.

AFAIK Blue3 is completely modelled. I don't own it, though. I do have B5, and it's pretty good, but I still like VB3 more, somehow. I do think Blue3 wins overall, based on the demos. Overdrive simulation is topnotch (and I love my organs overdriven!).

Last edited by EvilDragon (07-12-2017 23:10)
Hard work and guts!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Thank you, Niclas.. Kudos to Modartt. Sounds very nice.
Edit: only quirk is the output device switching off. Could be my clumsiness.

Last edited by Fleer (08-12-2017 03:28)
Pianoteq 6 with Blüthner Model One / Steinway Model D / Vintage Electric Pianos & Hohner Collection

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

An exciting development!  The Alpha version sounds excellent.  Very convincing.  The full version will be awesome, I'm sure!

  -Perry-

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

I was imagining... Many people who play piano also like to listen pipe organs, but don't understant very well how a real pipe organ works in details, the many adjstments for stops, the registers, the use of pedals. Maybe they could be more ionterested in organ emulator if they know more about how a organ works.
What about a didactic video for pipe organ, and a didactic video about organteq (pro version coming) ?  Maybe  amini video context with a 50% off discount as reward or something like that ?

And many people don't buy organ emulator cause they would need a pedalboard, and midi pedalboard use to be expansive.  Some old used electric organs are the oprice of a good new MIDI pedalboard.
So I propose we search some DIY (Do it yourself) MIDI pedalbaord projects, to find the best one to public in this forum.

Some people buy parts/components of of eletronic organ to use in DIY MIDI projetcs : https://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-Electon … 2753960674

I found this advanced project for pipe organ controller, but it's in portuguese and there is no tecnical details :   http://orgaodetubovirtual.blogspot.com.br/

Last edited by Beto-Music (08-12-2017 14:38)

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Thanks for this surprise gift, Modartt! I can imagine that this new program is going to open up many, many possibilities. And this alpha version already sounds very good.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

It sounds wonderful, and thank you very much for the Linux version smile (running well on UbuntuStudio 17.04 + KXStudio repo).

This one sounds like it could be played with a wind controller perhaps?

Looking forward to the full release!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Very nice.

Running perfectly on Linux Mint 18 64-bit with no issue.  Audio via PulseAudio for output.

Not an organ player myself but sounds pretty good to my untrained ear.

And this is the Alpha version ?  Can hardly wait to hear the Beta version. :-)

Thanks Modartt.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Played with it over the weekend, and found it lovely. I am not an organist, so I am not well qualified to make comparisons, but it sounds charming and musical. So thank you for this unexpected gift. Of course, I also have an extra request: most of us, as pianists, will take our Bach scores out, immediately, so could you please, please, add the 5 notes in the bass (E1-C1) that we need so desperately?

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

pz wrote:

most of us, as pianists, will take our Bach scores out, immediately, so could you please, please, add the 5 notes in the bass (E1-C1) that we need so desperately?

much of the Cantantibus organis is in manualiter format (ie no pedalboard needed) and sits well within the alpha version's compass.
also, Frescobaldi & Froberger (with the occasional dropped octave doubling) are your friends here...
"early" keyboard literature in general contains a vast wealth of musical riches which every keyboardist (regardless of one's particular instrumental preference) can only but profit from.

(edit: for instance... wink
i would have liked to record this with organteq but, lacking a record function in the alpha, the Ruckers is perhaps not entirely unsuited to the task...
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=5407)

Last edited by DaveyJones (11-12-2017 12:22)
Wahre Kunst bleibt unvergänglich.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Wow. What a gorgeous organ. Thank you, Santa! (That sounds suspect, I know.)

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

This is all sad news for me...

Andrei Kuznetsov

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Don't be sad. It's not like Pianoteq is over.

Hard work and guts!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Yeah, sure, it's just my opinion, man. But for sure if it was up to my personal wish - I'd vote for hardcore piano model development exclusively, ditch all other instruments entirely.

Andrei Kuznetsov

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

I just don't see the point here. Modeled organ? Wee, how cool is that. So what? Where is the win here, I would really like to know it realistically. Up to my weighted opinion good old sampling technology up to date still beats all Modartt's modelled instruments, including pianos in most obvious sonic aspects. But! There is a significant exception for piano stuff - the so-often mentioned "playability" aspect, which make Pianoteq pianos invaluable for everyday practice. But for, say, organs? The connection between the performer and the pipes is not that significantly direct in the real ones (compared to pianos), again, up to how I understand it. So how is it going to compete with Hauptwerk and tons of others? Price? It will be significantly less expensive, different models?

BTW, I would like to share what is my "secret weapon", my favorite modelling VST for different stuff, pipes, strings (not pianos, unfortunately) - the NI Reaktor's Steampipe 2, amazing responsiveness, ton's of parameters.

BTW2, to contradict myself a bit, I would be tremendously impressed if Modartt would announce, say, a violin instrument, something like Joshua Bell Violin V.I., but modelled. Giving out the idea, let me fantasize a bit, say next are slightly different violin models, next are other main orchestral string instruments, slightly different models, then next are some clever ensemble scripting. That would be ambitious!

BTW3, ...still I'd prefer "pianos only" direction.

Last edited by AKM (12-12-2017 00:01)
Andrei Kuznetsov

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Sampled organs have the same problem as sampled pianos - it's REALLY hard to get them without any reverb, so you get overlapping room on each voice played (especially if you sampled each register separately), noise buildups, etc. etc.

Modelled approach to organs has the same benefits - you can place the pipes in space wherever you want, change the properties of pipes easily, thus creating registers not possible in reality even... You can't do that with samples.


Also, note that Modartt employed a new developer to focus solely on Organteq, his name is Roman, and he's a cool guy. The rest of Modartt team continues working on pianos. Everyone happy. big_smile

Hard work and guts!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

I see big_smile

Andrei Kuznetsov

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Bugger! I bought hauptwerk two months ago. Still, this is Great news for the company I hope and I really look forward to hearing the 2018 product.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

AKM wrote:

I just don't see the point here. Modeled organ? Wee, how cool is that. So what? Where is the win here, I would really like to know it realistically. Up to my weighted opinion good old sampling technology up to date still beats all Modartt's modelled instruments, including pianos in most obvious sonic aspects. But! There is a significant exception for piano stuff - the so-often mentioned "playability" aspect, which make Pianoteq pianos invaluable for everyday practice. But for, say, organs? The connection between the performer and the pipes is not that significantly direct in the real ones (compared to pianos), again, up to how I understand it. So how is it going to compete with Hauptwerk and tons of others? Price? It will be significantly less expensive, different models?

BTW, I would like to share what is my "secret weapon", my favorite modelling VST for different stuff, pipes, strings (not pianos, unfortunately) - the NI Reaktor's Steampipe 2, amazing responsiveness, ton's of parameters.

BTW2, to contradict myself a bit, I would be tremendously impressed if Modartt would announce, say, a violin instrument, something like Joshua Bell Violin V.I., but modelled. Giving out the idea, let me fantasize a bit, say next are slightly different violin models, next are other main orchestral string instruments, slightly different models, then next are some clever ensemble scripting. That would be ambitious!

BTW3, ...still I'd prefer "pianos only" direction.

Andrei, go have a look at the Modartt team: https://www.pianoteq.com/modartt

I read some of Roman Auvray's papers. He is an expert in applying hydrodynamics and fluid mechanics to the organ pipe and also the flute, a similar instrument. This is totally different from piano modelling. I think we should applaud Modartt for giving a chance to brilliant new PhD's (like Juliette Chabassier previously) to expand Modartt's expertise in instrument modelling. They could sit happily on their current (considerable) skill set, but they prefer the stimulation of interaction with new talent...Piano modeling will go on as well I'm sure!

By the way, I read that some of the principles of string playing (a constant force exciting a vibration in a string) are similar to a constant wind exciting a vibration in a pipe, so maybe your dream of violin models is somewhere down the line (I'm really guessing here...) smile

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Bowed string modeling already exists...

https://www.native-instruments.com/en/r … show/7463/ (free if you own Reaktor, but for best results you need Leap Motion controller)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2CMq-zIua4


Paid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont … BkRGRZ6eig

http://www.swamengine.com/swam-s/

Last edited by EvilDragon (12-12-2017 15:54)
Hard work and guts!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Very interesting indeed! I was merely talking principles here, not implying anything in Modartt's intentions. Also, you can see in one of video the use of a mouth interface for modelling the bowing I suppose...and movement detector in the other video...fascinating. But really shows the real instrument has the best interface! wink

Last edited by Gilles (12-12-2017 16:06)

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

That's a breath controller, usually used for wind instruments (it's a MIDI CC anyways, it can control anything really). But gesture control is overall going to produce better results (however, you have to have an idea on how the bowing actually works on the actual instrument, and have an idea on certain techniques... but in any case, the end result is more realistic than samples, as far as performance is concerned.)

Last edited by EvilDragon (12-12-2017 16:07)
Hard work and guts!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

DaveyJones wrote:
pz wrote:

most of us, as pianists, will take our Bach scores out, immediately, so could you please, please, add the 5 notes in the bass (E1-C1) that we need so desperately?

much of the Cantantibus organis is in manualiter format (ie no pedalboard needed) and sits well within the alpha version's compass.
also, Frescobaldi & Froberger (with the occasional dropped octave doubling) are your friends here...
"early" keyboard literature in general contains a vast wealth of musical riches which every keyboardist (regardless of one's particular instrumental preference) can only but profit from.
....
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=5407)

Thanks Davey, that reference will not make me want to withdraw my request, but surely that is a great introduction into the world of our brother keyboardists.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

@Gilles
smile I see, interesting.

@EvilDragon
Thanks a lot for the info about the emulations and the hardware/software/techniques. Very impressive, did not know about this stuff.

Last edited by AKM (12-12-2017 21:16)
Andrei Kuznetsov

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

pz wrote:

Thanks Davey, that reference will not make me want to withdraw my request, but surely that is a great introduction into the world of our brother keyboardists.

np smile
btw, i too look forward to an expanded compass in subsequent versions of organteq!
(along with recording/export functions wink )

Last edited by DaveyJones (13-12-2017 01:02)
Wahre Kunst bleibt unvergänglich.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Gilles wrote:

I think we should applaud Modartt for giving a chance to brilliant new PhD's (like Juliette Chabassier previously) to expand Modartt's expertise in instrument modelling. They could sit happily on their current (considerable) skill set, but they prefer the stimulation of interaction with new talent...Piano modeling will go on as well I'm sure! [emphasis mine]

this is the key point here i think.  while i'm certainly excited about organteq, it's reassuring to hear that work with the piano models will continue and, as well, hopefully benefit from the addition of new talent with fresh ideas and perspectives, even if not directly related to development of the piano model itself.  there are so many great historic pianos begging to be given life through pianoteq's modeling capabilities (how about a 1846 boisselot?  or say a 1820's n. streicher??), not to mention continued refinement of the modelling process itself, that i think pianoteq's voyage has, in a way, just begun... smile

Last edited by DaveyJones (13-12-2017 01:26)
Wahre Kunst bleibt unvergänglich.

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Well, that's what I was waiting for! As a user of organ samplers (Hauptwerk, GrandOrgue) I hoped the specialists from Modartt will put their expertise in a modeled church organ. I'm looking forward to a great development (also as the open source project "Aeolus" is not evolving with great steps ...), so I'm expecting great things!

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Re: Organteq - new generation physically modelled pipe organ

Beto-Music wrote:

And many people don't buy organ emulator cause they would need a pedalboard, and midi pedalboard use to be expansive.  Some old used electric organs are the oprice of a good new MIDI pedalboard.
So I propose we search some DIY (Do it yourself) MIDI pedalbaord projects, to find the best one to public in this forum.

As the organ sampler "Hauptwerk" is very popular, there are a lot of possibilities to purchase a keyboard/pedalboard combination. e.g. this German manufacturer: http://www.hauptwerk-spieltische.de/, http://kienle-orgeln.de/kienle/HW-Spieltische.php, http://www.pausch-e.de/spieltische.htm, http://www.hauptwerkshop.de/ (mostly in German)
My solution is a small model of a Johannus digital church organ (Studio II) which already makes sounds by itself (for the fast rehearsal) but might be useable as an organ console as well. As I don't like to pay for every sample prices from 300 EUR and more (even they are worth the price), I'm looking forward to the Modartt solution - with the hope of some serious Schnitger model ... ;-)