Topic: Metronome in recording

Hi I would like to request a feature for Metronome.

Would it be possible to record the metronome when it is playing? That way one can go back to the recording and hear the metronome when studying playing so that one can identify what are the mistakes or issues.


For example I'm working on a piece that is very difficult for timing and after 16 bars I get out of rhythm and I would like to know when exactly that happens. It could be great if I could go back and listen to the recording and then figure out where I'm getting out of rhythm with the metronome playing in the recording.

Thanks
Osho

Re: Metronome in recording

Yes please! I record some very syncopated jazz voices for a choir and it would be of great help if you can hear the metronome.

Re: Metronome in recording

Would love to hear from the development team if this can be done??

Thanks,
Osho

Re: Metronome in recording

Also works in any free DAW

Pianoteq 7 Pro with all pianos

Re: Metronome in recording

Today 09:40

This might not be of help if someone does not use a DAW, free or otherwise, but here goes:

In a separate track in your DAW (Digital Audio Workstation, aka sequencer), you will need to set up two instances of Pianoteq -- one for your click track, and one for the actual performance.  Assign Pianoteq on Midi Channel #2 when you create your own pseudo click track; save your actual performance for Midi Channel #1, although the choice of which two different midi channels you use ... is up to you.

Record a series of quarter notes/crotchets at the highest C on your keyboard. Play these notes very staccato/short.  Quantize the rhythm of these C notes on this separate track, and make sure they are set to a different midi channel (so as not to be lost when you do your actual recording of the piece).  An interesting variant would be to play the downbeat of each measure on a different note, say the highest A note and play it louder so you can hear the downbeat for each measure, and leave the rest of the notes at the highest C.  In this way, you will never be lost as to where the "beat" is, especially if you can hear the downbeat of each measure.

Once your click track has been recorded and quantized, then record (on a separate Midi channel) your original piece in real time, UNQUANTIZED, as you listen to your click track, pseudo metronome.  Be sure to set the intended tempo of the click track to one which you are able to play your piece with reasonable accuracy.

When you are through, you can listen to the results, or you can render the results in audio format.  If you are unsure of the notes' placement, as in a complex jazz vocal piece, you can also view the placement of the notes' timings within the GUI.

Hope this helps, acknowledging this is an interim solution in the event you have access to a sequencer.

Cheers,

Joe

Re: Metronome in recording

So am I correct that recording the metronome is still not an available feature?

Re: Metronome in recording

jocar37 wrote:

So am I correct that recording the metronome is still not an available feature?

Afraid not I'd find that feature very useful - much better than messing around with a DAW etc..
.

Re: Metronome in recording

oshogg wrote:

if I could go back and listen to the recording and then figure out where I'm getting out of rhythm with the metronome playing in the recording

Interesting - This may be redundant but in case it helps, playing repetitions at half speed or even quarter (without need to stop to alter metronome) can really help untangle fingers for me. I recognise that's low tech and not related to the request however.

We can speed up and slow down playback speed in Pianoteq - in case it helps someone.

Also, I notice there's a really neat "Seek to" tool inside the player (not sure when that arrived - but I've missed it until just now), which infers maybe we'll eventually have ways to loop segments too at some point.  (the tool will seek to 42 seconds in a short piece, even if you mistakenly type in 42 by itself, instead of hard processing that as minutes, or saying "file too short" - nice and I like this)

+++ for syncing all this up to the metronome in future.


TBH though, I'd not worry too much if it doesn't become a feature for now, there are just so many reasons to work on these finger patterning problems in a DAW if they're worryingly entrenched as bad habit, at least to my thinking.  Maybe I'm missing something more about the suggestion though.


Maybe it makes sense if I describe what I do in a DAW to iron out a troublesome passage in rehearsal and why the tools in there are good at it.


In a DAW, using Pianoteq (or any VSTi of course) as plugin, you can:

a)
Record your MIDI performance, select the problematic section, select "loop" and let it replay over. Digesting 'the glitch'.

b)
Next, in many DAWs, you can hover your mouse over playback transport tempo control and roll the middle mouse wheel up and down to slow down or speed up playback (or whatever other ways you may prefer amounting to the same - like typing in the numbers in the tool etc.).  The click should synch to any tempo changes you make in the DAW - no need to record anything extra or do anything extra fussy (there also may be ways to un-hook that sync behaviour too if doing something more unusual).

c)
When you record a perfect enough take of it, 'bounce' it to a new audio track (DAWs will almost all have an easy one-click way to do that - some may name it differently but it should be discoverable without too much fuss - some DAWs will need you to select "monitor" or equivalent on the new track so you can hear it - some may auto-mute the first track and focus monitoring on the new track - it's not too hard to work out what's going on with some logic and time). 

Loop that section now, play along with it, turn on/off the click until you are confident that it's now second nature to perform it.

Play until you're comfortably on point with it at a slow speed and incrementally speed up the timing. Repeat until repetitions are running at the desired tempo - keep going a while until the motor response is genuinely feeling normal.

d)
To confirm you've locked in your improvements, expand the dimensions of the loop, playing more of the lead up and follow on until you're very sure it's feeling solid and seamless.  Record each take and zoom in on mistakes and 'play them out' like above or lesser extent - whatever works. 

e)
Inspired by your success, you might then go on to really confidently record the whole piece since you're already in your DAW and firing on all cylinders. 


I like approaching a performance in the DAW as opposed to performing in a standalone VSTi - but we would each have preferences for whatever reasons.  To me, a DAW feels more ready to work and with safety nets all around the place.  That's a soft motivator for me which may be utterly irrelevant to others.

Different DAWs work quite similarly and learning to do this kind of thing is a snap really and repeatable very quickly after getting used to it.

Hearing back in slow motion with click might be great one day in Pianoteq.  We can currently leave the metronome going and hit "play" in time - and slow down playback but it would probably be extra helpful if we could also select regions and loop them of course.

Like others on the forum I've imagined having a more full-featured DAW system within Pianoteq though and like others have posted in the past about it, there's likely a whole new can of unwanted worms with doing too much of that, and less time for more pianos as a result if it's too complex etc.

I'd guesstimate the consensus comes down to something like that.

In case it's useful, one of my preferred DAWs, Studio One there's all the time signatures I'd care for along with easy manipulation of accent/beat/offbeat with many different volumes/tones for each for example, and the ability to instantly save custom ones to re-use ("MyTango-06" or "3/4" or "Jazz-13/789/2.333" or "Verse-SongName" whatever helps you remember), applying them to selected regions, you can quickly pre-map out a song or complex project with changing tempos and time signatures built in like structural elements.  Can be helpful in many ways, esp. with time constraints, or if you have sheet music and you're thinking like a conductor before a session where a concerted play-though might end up a great recording, for one example.

Hope this adds some value to some workflows out there and we all benfit from more great music in the world - happy new year!

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors