Topic: Is Mastering Necessary?

Hi there~
I am planning to produce my solo piano album (mostly new age and jazz stuff) using Pianoteq piano. Do you think I need mixing or mastering service for it?

Last edited by wuiyeonkim (29-08-2017 04:29)

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

Short answer:  "Yes"

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

well... longer answer: you could also try one or a few tracks by yourself, then send it/them to a mastering plant and compare.
There are some powerful VST plugs now (even some free ones...), you can achieve an amazing job with those
If you think about it, Pianoteq is nothing else than an amazing plug-in itself...
You "just" need a very good, reliable monitoring system, some knowledge of EQ, compression & all, and... good ears ! :-)

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

http://productionadvice.co.uk/mastering-basics/ 

Matthieu 7:6

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

very nice link! Thanks for sharing!

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

Luc Henrion wrote:

You "just" need a very good, reliable monitoring system, some knowledge of EQ, compression & all, and... good ears ! :-)

Agreed, my one-word answer bordered on sarcasm, because the question asked if we "think" one needs to retain the services of a mastering house.  Your sentence captured the required details that I really had in mind. 

Volumes have been written -- and it can take years to be learned -- on every aspect you mentioned.  Then there is the expense of acquiring a room with good acoustic treatment, more than one pair of studio-quality monitors (not just good speakers, because one wants to hear what's "wrong" with a mix as much as what's "right" about it), and an arsenal many good-to-excellent quality EQ, compression, reverb, etc. from which to choose.

Typically, most of us (myself included) apply too much reverb to an entire mix.  We don't understand how different reverbs can place a musical line forward or backward in the mix.  We don't really comprehend how factors such as pre-delay, initial reflections, timing of reverb length as a function of tempo, and reverb EQ can work.

Knowledge and application of all of the above can make the difference between a so-so recording and an outstanding recording (to say nothing of the actual performance) heard on a variety of sound systems by any number of final customers.

Cheers,

Joe

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

Well, to be honest, I thought I could tell it because I'm probably better at the engineer position than in front of my piano! My studio is running since more than 30 years now while I'm still struggling to play Mozart's K333 sonata correctly... And even if I'm in love with this piece, I'm afraid it will never happen, LOL !

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

If you are gonna do it yourself, you should be asking others feedback and move from there. One of the advantages of doing it by someone else is that it is easier to work with someone else work, because potential problems are more obvious. Artists often view their own work as the best, greatest... missing legitimate criticism.

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

Hello All,

Uploaded to the Users area is an mp3 file of MacDowell's "Witches Dance" performed by Yours Truly on the Steinway B.  The audio randomly switches between "out-of-the-box" Pianoteq and my shot at "mastering" the same piece.  I attempted to keep the volumes within 1db of each other so as not to bias one's opinion.  Obviously, this is impossible 100% of the time because the Mastered version does manipulate the volume as part of the mastering process.

No attempts were made to make the out-of-the-box file sound "deliberately bad;" you will hear audible clicks left in the audio as the mp3 switches between examples, so it's somewhat easier to tell when the switches were made.

Here's the URL:  http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...UG2017.mp3

Listen for yourself (preferably through a good set of headphones) to notice audible differences.  In my opinion, both files are decent and they represent audio rendered from the same performance.

Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (30-08-2017 20:40)

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

They sound quite fine to me, each [except for those annoying clicks and pops - what is this, used vinyl?  8-)  ].  It's already better than many classical recordings that I have collected over the past few decades.  I can't hardly tell which is which once you start switching.

- David

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

They sound very good to me. Can here the difference berween them (with good Grado headphones). One is like more in the center, closer, and the other is wider, like more stereo. Same feeling as when I in Ptq switch from Sound Recording to Stereophonic and back when listening.  And thanks for wonderful playing.

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

A fine example of mastering (and playing of course) to me. The piano sounds the same, it is just positioned in a wider more natural space, not simply drowned in reverb as it could be if using only the pianoteq convolution reverb, just feeling more real. I love it!

Re: Is Mastering Necessary?

Gilles wrote:

A fine example of mastering (and playing of course) to me. The piano sounds the same, it is just positioned in a wider more natural space, not simply drowned in reverb as it could be if using only the pianoteq convolution reverb, just feeling more real. I love it!


Hello Gilles,

That's the effect I was striving to achieve:  positioning in a wider, more natural space ... just feeling more real.

The fine art of mastering is "not" grabbing you by the shirt collar and shaking your neck to make you aware the track has been mastered; rather, it's about allowing a sound to (appear to) blossom as a natural event as perceived by the final listener.

* * * * * * * *

I LOVE Pianoteq!!!!!!  The out-of-the-box Pianoteq Steinway B preset sounds perfectly adequate to my ears and playing fingers.  As such, however, it is only a starting point into the audio chain of a finished piano performance.  No claims are made that Pianoteq eliminates the need for a mastering house in the event that you wish to release your own album involving a piano.

* * * * * * * *

The whole point of this exercise was to keep the piano sounding essentially the same.  While I am not a professional mastering engineer, there are subtle changes that can be made to a given mix.  Based upon what he may have heard in this musical example involving Pianoteq, it's up to the original poster of this thread to decide whether he needs to retain the services of a mastering house for his new age- and jazz solo piano album.  Only he can make that decision, and justify the sometimes considerable expense in doing so.

Personally, if I were going to release an album of my own classical piano music performances (whether via Pianoteq or live studio recording), I would use the services of the best mastering facility I could afford.  My opinion only.

Cheers,

Joe

P.S.  I may have gone overboard in the sheer amount of reverb to distinguish the altered sound from a stock Pianoteq Steinway B preset.  Also, because Pianoteq presets often present the sound from the perspective of the player seated at the keyboard (bass notes heard towards the left and treble notes heard towards the right), I swapped the channels to give the impression of an audience member listening to a performance.  Again, subtlety is the name of the game.


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

EDIT: 
Revealing exactly what I did in this case -- Actually, Pianoteq sounded fine without much help from the ear of a mastering engineer.  (I specifically did not alter anything in Pianoteq's Steinway B Recording 2 preset except to reduce the Main Volume slider from 0dB to -6dB.)  Pianoteq is already quite good on its own and did not require much in the way of "mastering" to make it sound in a more natural acoustic.

I did just two things:  1) I reversed the channels as described above, and 2) added one instance of an Altiverb convolution model of a Lexicon L480 digital reverb's stock "Medium Hall" preset on a separate Aux Bus, so that I could independently vary the amount of input signal and third-party Altiverb reverb.  That's all I did in this particular case!  Another important job of a good mastering house is to make sure there are no abrupt changes in volume or perspective when multiple files are compiled into a CD or other delivery medium.

END EDIT

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (31-08-2017 06:24)