Digital piano / MIDI controller for Pianoteq..?

From what I've read in reviews like azpianonews.com, the best action for under $1000 come from either the Casio line, starting with the PX-150 which runs about $450, or the Kawai ES100 which runs around $800.

I'm have a Casio, and I'm pretty happy with it. After a couple of years, however, some of the keys are getting a little noisy.

I don't think either model offers escapement. I heard that the Roland F20 offers escapement, but that it doesn't work in practice.

I think that to get that feature, you would have to go above $1000 new. Hopefully, someone can help you with some used options.

The Kawai VPC1 is supposed to have among the closest feel to a real piano as you can get. However, it's street price is around $1850. You might be able to get it for around $1600 around Black Friday.

Thanks for the replies, @beakybird. I guess I'd better go check out the latest stuff on the floor at the larger music stores in Melbourne. The bottleneck is that our market here in Australia is fairly small, so even the biggest music stores have only a very limited selection of what's out there.

I have played an ES100 and did not care for it (sorry) if memory serves me well. In the $1.5k-$4k range the best action last I looked (cca. 4 yrs ago) was on some Rolands. They seemed to have gotten the escapement mechanism sussed. But I have nothing conclusive, just a vague impressions and a fading memory, so I'd better go and see what's out there now. Then I might come back to the forums and ask for further guidance.

Cheers.

I concur. I did a long search this spring and summer for a 61+-key controller or (as it turned out) digital piano as an upgrade for my synth keyboards and, after demoing, buying and returning quite a few contenders, I finally was able to demo a Privia at a local Costco (no other stores carried Casio DPs). It (a PX760, in this case) immediately confirmed all the good reviews of the Privia line's playability (pretty much my only consideration), and I immediately ordered a discontinued PX 850 from Costco (same action, much better deal @ $750 CDN) and have been happilly bonded with it ever since (~2–3 months). I'm not an acoustic pianist, just a digital aspirant, which may be why some of the well-regarded mid-budget GH Yamahas (P155, P255) felt way too heavy to me. The much recommended Kawai ES100 also felt too much like work - too much key inertia for my synth action-spoiled hands. The Kawai KDP90 was substantially more accommodating, and I might have sprung for it, but the price was above my range. Low end Rolands like the F20 and F50 were comparatively easy to play, but tended to have a kind of wobbly key feel. Low end GHS Yamahas (P45, P115), while pleasantly light to the touch, had an uneven dynamic response: the volume tended to pop in response to gradual velocity increases - a dealbreaker for me. Rolands too pricey for me were my favourites of all the DPs I demoed, notably the FP80, DP90 and RD-800. I didn't get to demo the vaunted VPC-1. For feel and playability, I'm not sure I've done much worse with my cheap Privia than the expensive Rolands. One downside to the Privias (and the cheaper Casio DPs - I bought and returned a CDP130: great bang for buck but not as sweet as the Privias) is key noise. Their keys are very prone to "clicketty-clack" noise. Anyone who likes to play at low volume without headphones and who can't tune the noise out could find this a prohibitive problem.

I recently purchased the new Studiologic SL88 Grand, and so far has been very happy with it. First of all the keyboard (Fatars TP40 Wood with ivory feeling veneer), I can not distinguish it from the grands I have played, and the ivory feel reminds me of the rather old and mediocre upright I grew up with as a kid.

Next, there are 250 "programs", which can be named and configured to your liking, including sending a midi PC when activated, so I have made the presets I need in PTQ, and mapped each to a program on the SL88, so now I can just turn the knob on the keyboard and select the program/sound I want. The drawback is that there are not many knobs/buttons/sliders on the keyboard, so if you have the need for a lot of ad-hoc twisting, then Arturia or similar will be a better option.

You've seen right into my heart of darkness. As much as I love this Privia, I'm already feeling the siren call of the VPC1 — or a better Casio, for that matter. Would be nice to see their new Celviano Grand Hybrid wooden keyboards in a cheaper "slab" version by the time the racket from my PX850 has become unbearable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBUD7HH...pfreload=1

Syd

I thought I'd come back with my own closure update to this thread after having found some decent controllers on a budget.

Since my OP I have tried most digital pianos and MIDI controllers on display in shops in Melbourne. I've also read a lot of online reviews/commentary, watched videos --- it's amazing how unreliable they can be sometimes, but worth a look anyway in combination with your own hands-on research. You should assume the same about this post. Do your own research, don't take my word for anything.

As I wrote earlier I ended up buying a Casio PX-160. For the money or less, it's as good as it gets. Feels cheap? Yes, about what you'd expect for the money. Plays well? Yes, a lot more so than you'd expect for the money. The PX-150 is essentially the same keyboard. What first made me sit up and take notice of it was this young gentleman: https://www.youtube.com/user/wobblybob76, who does amazing things with his PX-150 + Pianoteq.

I also recently bought a Studiologic Numa Nero second hand for less money still. (This Nero has none of the glitches that you read about online.) I'm yet to decide which one I prefer. The Nero is much better made (complete with fake "wooden" white keys: Fatar TP/40WOOD action) but the PX is easier to play with faster keys (but after 3 months I'm used to the PX and have not played the Nero enough yet). The Nero does feel closer to playing a grand, but really neither feel anything like an acoustic grand.

The Numa Nero has been superseded by the SL88 Grand with a massive 2- to 3-fold price drop compared with the Nero. So this is another attractive <$US1k piano controller to consider especially for those who like the usually much more expensive Fatar TP40W action.

Kawai and Yamaha at the budget end of things don't deliver. The P45, P95, P115 (with GHS action, a budget version of the GH) are all much worse than my 10+ y.o. P140 (GH action); the Kawai ES100 is worse than my ~15 y.o. budget cabinet upright CN270 (contrary to glowing reviews I've read), which I've since dissected and turned into a stage/portable piano; and neither of those old KBs were all that great. The Yamaha P140 I was initially looking to upgrade from is the best one of this lot; similar to the new P255, which has the same GH action with the addition of ivory/ebony textured keys.

I would have preferred the Roland F-140R to the Casio PX-160 but the Roland was a cabinet-only model and twice the price. Since then Roland came out with the on-paper equivalent FP-30 portable KB. This may be another good budget piano controller option.

So in summary, for those looking to buy a new piano controller on a budget, in early March 2016 I'd recommend Casio PX-160, Roland FP-30, Studiologic SL88 Grand. On a more generous but still sensible budget the Kawai VPC1 + Pianoteq will knock your socks off.

Second hand (used) there are lots more options, too many to list, but the ones that stand out are Kawai ES7 and the top Kawai MP boards (including up to ~10-year-old ones with proper long wooden piano keys). Look for a Casio PX-150 if you only have a few $100.

PS. I've changed my mind on "escapement is a must": it'd be nice to have but even on the best DP's/controllers it's only so-so executed.

Always try before you buy. If you're a beginner, ask/take your piano teacher or someone who plays acoustic pianos.

[edit: F-30 changed to FP-30 on follow-up advice from Fleer, see below.]

Thanks! You're absolutely right. FP-30 it is indeed.

My memory often fails me. (That's why I like maths and physics. When you forget stuff it's easy to fill in the gaps using only logic.)

Hi guys! I'm new here.  I've been playing for 25 years or so, and about a year with Pianoteq.  I am a cheapskate and I bought a slightly broken(top interface buttons dodgy; keys were good), well-used Roland FP-3 for $250 and fixed it.  It has no on-board speakers, champagne finish, graded hammer action, progressive damping compatible...from about 2001.  I love the action (though others complain that it's on the heavy side).  And then I have an Edirol PCR-800 sitting on top for knobs and faders (and 61 smallish synth action keys with aftertouch...nothing to write home about but nice enough). The Edi was $100 used.  I played all the latest hammer action beds and I seem to only like Roland and Nord.  I think everyone has their own taste with that.  I find some of the casio privia, korg kronos, and yamaha pxx (not p1xx since i havent been able to try that) hammer action to have a "stiff" floor, and I think a critic of the Roland would call it soggy/rubbery.  Would love to try the Kawai.