Topic: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

I need an entry level digital piano to use with the Pianoteq. And my choice is either the P45 or PX-160; they're the same price at my store and only two in my budget. I do not wish to buy online (restraining my choice) or acquiring a used equipment.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with any of them, any feedbacks? Particularly what is disliked about them?

I just want an OK digital piano. I give less importance to the sound than the action keys since it will mostly be used with pianoteq.

Last edited by Lucy (15-02-2017 06:41)

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Casio Px 160. Better key action, better polyphony, more options. Overall in higher class.

Last edited by slobajudge (15-02-2017 08:40)

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

I've had a Casio PX-160 for a little over a year.  It works well with Pianoteq--at least in my limited estimation--and I preferred the feel of the action to the Yamaha P45 and P115 I briefly tried. 

My biggest complaint with the Casio is that several keys became fairly noisy and a bit looser feeling after a couple months. First just a couple of the most used ones--as I was returning to piano after a long time away--but after a year many keys have the issue, and they make quite a bit of noise when playing. 

It helps to play with closed headphones, and the function is there, they just clatter a great deal.  Someone at another forum (who I think I've seen here as well) had the same issue and was able to have it repaired under warranty.  I haven't tried that yet, as I'd want to have another piano available during the repair time and reports about the local authorized Casio repair center are not encouraging. 

Another small issue is that, if I have headphones plugged into the piano and turn it off before removing the headphone jack, the speakers will remain muted the next time I turn on the piano. Reinserting and removing the headphone jack fixes it (as does removing the headphones before powering down). Either way it's not been an issue since I've been using Pianoteq as I plug headphones into my laptop.

As I've never owned one of the Yamahas I don't know if there are any similar issues.  I do think I'd still pick the Casio PX-160 over a Yamaha P45, however. A P115 would be closer.  At this point I do wish I'd spent more on a Kawai or Roland, but I also don't have longer term experience with their digital pianos.

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

In lower price range (45,105,115 and more) Yamaha have GHS action for a long time. 2 sensors, after some times it start to make clunky noise.(My bad experience) Not recommended. Casio have the cheapest CDP series, similar to GHS, but I have very positive experience with CDP 120 and action, but maybe I `ve been lucky with my piece. No clunky noise. Now, PX series have 3 sensors, better material overall and better response, but from piano to piano some of them also start to make clunky noise. Still, p45 is much worst then PX160 overall as a DP. Collect little more money and go for Kawai es110 (my pick) or Roland fp30. They are best in a lower price range.

Last edited by slobajudge (15-02-2017 15:36)

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Thanks everyone for the feedbacks.

slobajudge, both digital piano are 629$ (Canadian dollars) at my store, while the Roland fp30 is 999$ (and they don't sell the Kawai), it is considerably more expensive. If the Casio starts making noise I guess it might need grease of better quality in the moving parts. I'm not scared to open it, as there are considerable material on the internet to help me (on youtube for instance).

Regarding the three sensors vs two sensors? Would that make any differences in Pianoteq? If I record the playing on pianoteq and convert to wav... will the three sensors make it more expressive? Or is it only a plus for the sound produced directly from the Casio?

Last edited by Lucy (15-02-2017 16:33)

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Glad you make decision and a big plus for you because you are ready to fight with problems if any appear. I hope they not. About two vs three sensors there are lots of talking about it, just google it and  I think this is a video to watch, I cant better then this. Sorry about the title in the video, earlier I watch this too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rZAPpHCjRo

In DP world I will always go for better.

Good luck !

Last edited by slobajudge (15-02-2017 16:55)

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

WOW! Thanks for that link on 2 vs 3 sensors. I didn't know that was the advantage of 3 sensors. I guess I eliminated the P45 from my choice. I have that problem which he describes with my keyboard (with the two playing notes), I see no point in upgrading to a digital piano with 2 sensors if that problem will not be resolved.

Last edited by Lucy (15-02-2017 17:07)

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Just remember, good piano technique make difference between two vs three sensors more or less relative, but the more is anyway the better for pianist. Enjoy.

Last edited by slobajudge (15-02-2017 17:20)

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

I just watched this (from the same author): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnqHStIL02E&t=341s

...and tested my keyboard to compare what I see with that Casio model, and I can say that if the PX160 performs even a lill bit worst on what is being tested there (compared to that Casio model in that video), then I will be more than satisfied. It will still be a night and day difference compared to what I already have. I can remember an acoustic piano's which performs worst (as there is a minimal length required for the hammer action on a real piano too to perform well).

Last edited by Lucy (15-02-2017 22:32)

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Until recently I was using a Yamaha P105 with Pianoteq.  But I have recently changed it for the similar-priced Kawai ES100 because in my opinion the feel of the Kawai's keyboard is a lot better. The tactile feedback from the keyboard to your fingers is more like a real piano and that makes it much easier to play.

Both of these instruments allow you to connect a 'continuous' damper pedal (the ES100 comes with one) which means that you can use the half-pedalling capability of Pianoteq.  Again, this makes it more like a piano.  I believe (but am not certain) that the Casio PX-160 only accommodates an 'on-off' damper pedal.

Hope this helps.

PS: A small point: the Kawai has a MIDI out socket, while the Yamaha and Casio both provide MIDI out via USB.  That means that you need a MIDI to USB adapter (widely available) to connect the Kawai to a computer.

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

RagtimeMike wrote:

Until recently I was using a Yamaha P105 with Pianoteq.  But I have recently changed it for the similar-priced Kawai ES100 because in my opinion the feel of the Kawai's keyboard is a lot better. The tactile feedback from the keyboard to your fingers is more like a real piano and that makes it much easier to play.

Both of these instruments allow you to connect a 'continuous' damper pedal (the ES100 comes with one) which means that you can use the half-pedalling capability of Pianoteq.  Again, this makes it more like a piano.  I believe (but am not certain) that the Casio PX-160 only accommodates an 'on-off' damper pedal.

Hope this helps.

PS: A small point: the Kawai has a MIDI out socket, while the Yamaha and Casio both provide MIDI out via USB.  That means that you need a MIDI to USB adapter (widely available) to connect the Kawai to a computer.

Thanks for your input. According to this: http://azpianonews.blogspot.ca/2015/09/...Price.html
The half damping is possible with the PX160, but with the more expensive tri-pedals which only fit with the stand.

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Is it possible to pipe the output from Pianoteq's computer voice directly into the ES100's amplification and sound output system without hearing the ES100's internal sounds?  It's not possible with a Casio PX-150 so you have to have an additional speaker system when using the Pianoteq voice driven by the Casio's MIDI output.

I can attest to the fact that certain of the keys begin to make kicking sounds over time and the key bed is somewhat noisy in general.  I have successfully removed the click from specific keys, but disassembling and reassembling the Casio is fairly complex and takes a significant amount of time.  Also I was never able to completely remove an individual key from the key bed

The noise can be stopped in some cases by lubricating the key with food grade silicone grease. The "weighted" action comes from a blanced steel bar under the shorter plastic key which is hinged at the very back.  The very front of the plastic key acts upon the front of the steel bar.  A thin coat of Dynaflex 230 caulk can be added to the inside of the tunnel of the front of the key to quiet it down.

Casio should have fitted each key with an actual rubber insert for each of the keys.  This could easily be replaced if the rubber wore out over time.  Also the back of the steel bar lands at rest on a felt strip at the very back of the comparatively narrow steel bar.  This bar should have either be twisted at the back or have an added steel pad to increase the surface area of at the back of the steel bar where it contacts the felt strip.  I don't have a solution for that, but perhaps someone who is clever enough could design a small metal clip that could be easily added to the back end of the steel bar.

The Casio plays pretty well, but I've always felt something could be better.  If you are using Pianoteq you really don't need the internal sounds of the portable keyboard.  I wrote to Casio asking them to design and offer a controller that would be specifically for Pianoteq.  So far that hasn't happened. Instead they put their efforts into a more expensive particle board home piano with their own sounds.

Last edited by GRB (19-02-2017 23:53)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Wow, your post was really helpful. Did you take any pictures of the inside?

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Lucy wrote:

Wow, your post was really helpful. Did you take any pictures of the inside?

No, but trust me, it's a lot of work to take it apart.  From what I can tell people seem to like some Roland actions.  I'm trying to find the Model number of a Synth / Piano that was discussed on this forum in another thread.  It's more expensive, but I think a good synth makes a lot of sense to drive the Pianoteq voice.   I have a rack mounted Roland Super JX-10 and D-50.  The Super JX-10 which was a digitally controlled analog synthesizer can create amazing color washes that can really fatten up a piano sound if cross velocity is used to combine the two instruments.  In other words, the harder or louder you play the piano the less you hear the strings.  In contrast the softer you play the piano, the stronger the strings come out.  It works great.  Casio string sounds are horrible.  Completely worthless from my perspective.  In fact really good strings seem to be really difficult to synthesize.  Many synths just produce as nasty buzz they claim to be strings.  I have been suggesting that Pianoteq attempt to create orchestral strings, but so far there doesn't seem to be much interest in the idea.  As for the piano voices themselves, I derive great pleasure from the Pianoteq voices.  They can sound big at low volume levels which is great for practicing at home.  Pianoteq is the most musical electronic voice I have ever experienced.  Modartt has done an amazing job and I feel the voices represent great value.  They really do virtualize the magnificence of very expensive grand pianos at a small fraction of the cost.  Not to mention the fact that wooden pianos are expensive to maintain and are difficult to transport. As far as I can see traditional pianos are out of fashion except for institutions, concert halls, and the very wealthy.  From a practical point of view, in the home, Pianoteq is the way to go.  I have to go for my morning walk but I'll edit this post later when I find out what Roland keyboard piano / synth they were discussing.  The action is considered to be good.

Edit:
The Roland Synth / Piano is the Juno DS-88
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=4767

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SD3EzyPpXk

Last edited by GRB (21-02-2017 21:10)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

PX-160 no question about it. P45 not even close. I had P140 which has GH action (the P45 has its cheaper downgraded version, the GHS) and the PX-160 is more controllable and more expressive and more of a pleasure to play.

In the price range nothing beats the PX-160 IMHO. But pay a little more and you'll have a lot more options. Studiologic controller with Fatar wood keys eg (semi-wood really but very nice for the price). Or try the Roland FP-30. Cannot recommend Kawai ES100 at all. It feels dead, clunky and cheap to me. Kawai make great - if not the best - digital piano keyboards - but you have to pay more for them. Buying new, ES8 would be the cheapest I could recommend. But if it's for pianoteq onl get the VPC1. Otherwise you could get lucky buying used MP9000 or MP9500 in good nick e.g. still pull their weight (and their weight is heavy indeed). MP11 is fantastic but ~5x the price of a Casio PX-160 - not in the same league.

Buying second hand a PX-150 is a good cheap option. It's basically the same as a PX-160. Check out what a PX-150 with Pianoteq can do on Robert Dimbleby's channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpcmhD...wFzZi7F_OQ

Last edited by SteveLy (25-02-2017 16:55)
3/2 = 5

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Lucy wrote:

Thanks for your input. According to this: http://azpianonews.blogspot.ca/2015/09/...Price.html
The half damping is possible with the PX160, but with the more expensive tri-pedals which only fit with the stand.

I have the triple pedals, and tied the bar across the bottom of my X-stand.  It works fine with Pianoteq.

You get three levels of damping:
. . . dampers down;
. . . dampers up;

. . . an intermediate level of damping, which you can set in the PX-160 menu system.

At least, you can set it in the PX-350 menu system.  You might want to check the PX-160 manual, and make sure it's adjustable.

Yes, the Casio action is better than Yamaha's GHS.

.     Charles

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Re pedals, if you get a PX-150/160, your best option is an external independent continuously variable pedal with its own MIDI channel. I used to use a gadget - a MIDI to USB interface made for pedals - I forget the name and I don't use it any more (cos I gave the Casio to a piano school and my Numa Nero can handle all that), but if you search my old posts you'll find it. It cost around $50.

3/2 = 5

Re: Yamaha P45 vs Casio PX-160

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but this one helped me decide on a 88 key controller for Pianoteq that was in my budget, so I thought I'd post this for other people. 


In regards to pedals, I currently have the Yamaha FC3A which has the half-damper capability.  Didn't look like the Casio PX160 would support this with the pedal jack so I found this online:


https://www.audiofront.net/MIDIExpression.php


Attaches your pedal as an independent MIDI device to your PC.

I'll post an update once I receive it and see how it works.