Feature request (4 pro): "Tune" per key ( semitones)

You can do this already via Scala files, I think.

"seems" to me that if one is doing "experimental" "work" in this "vein" then one ought to at least take the "time" to "familiarize" oneself with the "programming" involved with "scala files"...

so here, let me help you with that ==>http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html

Funky40,

Maybe dials, sliders for this level of control would help on Pianteq's interface - I do like that idea.

Don't want you to miss out on achieving your ambitions tho' Funky40 - it can be done.

You began asking if it's possible to give single keys different notes and the answer is yes.

Don't overlook because initially it felt too hard - what could be better than achieving your dream of your own tuning, right now, yeah?

Don't worry, it's really not as hard as programming.

Notepad, drag-drop, solid, whoah

They are .scl files. They are tiny text files. Low tech, no-shinyTM but you get perfect result, total control, easy.

Files look like this (Ref. http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html ).

Here's a fundamental 12 notes per octave one for you (Ref. https://usermanuals.garritan.com/ARIAPl...tuning.htm ).

Copy from the first ! to the last part "2/1" - likewise for other .scl files. Notice, where it says "12" in the equal temp file, and "88" in the bourdelle file? Keep that in mind when making your own files

! equal-midi-basic.scl
!
12 Tone Equal temperament - midi steps
12
!
100.0
200.0
300.0
400.0
500.0
600.0
700.0
800.0
900.0
1000.0
1100.0
2/1

OR here's the bourdelle1.scl file for giving a number to each key on a 88 key keyboard - you can still use if you have 73:

! bourdelle1.scl
!
Compromis Cordier, piano tuning by Jean-Pierre Chainais
88
!
100.1046295
200.209
300.314
400.419
500.523
600.628
700.732
800.837
900.942
1001.046
1101.151
1201.256
1301.360
1401.465
1501.569
1601.674
1701.779
1801.883
1901.988
2002.093
2102.197
2202.302
2302.406
2402.511
2502.616
2602.720
2702.825
2802.930
2903.034
3003.139
3103.244
3203.348
3303.453
3403.557
3503.662
3603.767
3703.871
3803.976
3904.081
4004.185
4104.290
4204.394
4304.499
4404.604
4504.708
4604.813
4704.918
4805.022
4905.127
5005.239
5105.358
5205.484
5305.618
5405.759
5505.907
5606.063
5706.226
5806.396
5906.573
6006.758
6106.950
6207.149
6307.356
6407.570
6507.791
6608.019
6708.255
6808.498
6908.748
7009.005
7109.270
7209.542
7309.821
7410.108
7510.402
7610.703
7711.011
7811.327
7911.650
8011.980
8112.318
8212.662
8313.014
8413.374
8513.740
8614.114
8714.495
8814.884

You can change any of the series of numbers in a note pad, save, drop the file onto the Pianoteq interface to hear your changes.

You'll get the hang of that in minutes.

You'll quickly find which number is your C#Min etc. Just change the numbers to your liking and hear each change in Pianoteq as you go - you can't go wrong to get the result you're after, surely.

Is there a shiny interface in Pianoteq? YES - drag and drop - but this is so simple and frankly, an interface with sliders might help somewhat but it really wouldn't seem ANY easier to me, personally - but then, I grew up before touch screens.

Make your own files, Funky40-CsharpMin-to-low-Gsharp-Whatevs-01.scl

Perhaps it just seems too abstract because it looks too much like programming - or in a pointy-clicky era, it doesn't seem obvious or intuitive.

There can't be anything more intuitive than a number for a note, can there?

Download the archive of scala files:

http://www.huygens-fokker.org/docs/scales.zip

You can:

See and EDIT the scala file "bourdelle1.scl" in the following file archive, save it as your own and tweak in real time as you get to hear the changes you make. This file is like the one above except that instead of giving a tuning for each 12 keys (your octave of course), it gives a fixed value to each of your keys.. you can open it in notepad and find the number that relates to the exact g# key, for example, and give that key the same number as the existing C#m - if that's what you mean to do. Experiment - up to you - is all possible and not too hard to do.

You could get complex and make a spreadsheet with notes and numbers for reference, you also could learn to program for midi using .kbm files, C and infinitely more - but only if you get that urge?

You really only need a basic notepad and the files mentioned to learn/change = win.

If you want more info, here's official info on the basics of scala files:

http://www.huygens-fokker.org/scala/scl_format.html

Again, no hard programming or learning a whole programming language required.

In a file manager, just extract the archive to a folder you choose, then you can simply drag a file/tuning you'd like to hear directly on to the Pianoteq interface.

For more info (once you're hooked! and want to make more accurate numbers check this (may require more time but worth it):

"MIDI Tuning Standard unit: 1/196608 part of an octave

This divides the 12-tET semitone into 214 = 16384 parts which resolution makes sufficiently accurate tuning of electronic instruments possible. See the MIDI Tuning Specification 1.0.

There are other MIDI tuning units which differ per manufacturer, for example Yamaha has models tuned in 1/768 or 1/1024 parts of an octave.

There's also the MIDI Pitch Bend message, which can carry the values -8192 .. 8191, so when the range (which is variable) is the standard range of +/- 200 cents, then the unit is 1/49152 part of an octave or 0.024414 cents."

Ref.
http://www.huygens-fokker.org/docs/measures.html#Ellis

To wrap it up:

It's as easy as editing a few numbers in an existing tiny text file AND it's as complex as you want to take it from there IF your goal is be more in-depth. That's really not required IF your goal is just experimental tunings for now.

There are tunings which might blow your mind in that collection - and your own tweaks and ideas could be expressed with very little time and effort if you just - have a go.

Who knows, your tuning might be added to the official collection, for posterity one day.

(Edited to fix links)

You are most welcome, it's great to know you are having some success with Scala files Funky40!

_quote Funky40: >> first: how can i get rid of that file that i have loaded now in pianoteq ? <<

A couple of ways:

First might be easiest, just undo, by clicking on the menu item "edit/undo" or press "Control z" on keyboard.

Or you can click on a different piano setting on the list in Pianoteq, then click again on the one you're editing. Look for the small arrows on either side of the name of the piano setting on the bar - click either arrow to move to a fresh piano model, then the other arrow to return to your first sound without your changes.

Or for more than just that, in the tuning box (near top left of main Pianoteq interface), find and click on the backwards "u" shaped icon and then click on the drop-down on the left (which should display the filename loaded), and choose to load a different tuning. There's "equal" tuning on the list, as well as a couple dozen built in tunings OR you could load a scala file from that menu which goes through a familiar "open" file type dialog.. Also, your recent files loaded are listed here for ease. Exploring, you'll find Pianoteq has plenty of great little tricks which may not be highly visible.

_quote Funky40: >> whats the relation of the .scl files with Pianoteq ? <<

Too much programming for me aha Pianoteq would have proprietary blobs dealing with tunings - eg. they have inbuilt tunings you can access via the tuning interface. Some things might only relate to the Pro version. If you need to know this, you might end up programming your own tuning app someday

RE links not working: edited the post and FIXED

_quote Funky40: >> i hope my answer to _DJ_ didn´t came thru anything in a offending way <<

Don't worry, I'm sure _DJ_ is not offended personally. He might take offense at the thought that someone might turn their nose up at a way to achieve something suggested. I cannot speak for anyone but I'm sure he'd be more thinking about how you might miss out on a way to achieve your goal, than to be worried about if you are offensive. But there's more fun at heart here on the forum I think. I know that sometimes my writing sounds too harsh/formal too. It's a pain sometimes because it's hard to say efficiently what I need to, whilst also deleting anything human in my words :. Posting in English can make many non-English speakers sound maybe aggressive, drunk or just angry you insensitive clods

BTW, you should really not require Windows if you're happy with Ableton and Pianoteq. Great way to create - if you're happy and more concerned about saving time, stick with what you have for now - IMHO.

Good to know double clicking works for you

I'm very pleased to have steered you to dive in - I know that you will find how to make the tunings you mention and maybe without having to run two separate plug-ins in Ableton.

Once you nearly get the tuning right, give a little more tweaking and then get it just how you imagined might take a few attempts.

Funny thing with Pianoteq, once you begin tweaking you could theoretically never end, it really is very boundless in options.

But keep in mind that, after some years tweaking it, I often come back to default settings with some more basic tweaks - it's up to us each and sometimes you need weeks and months to sensibly "feel" deeply the differences you make.

Music will take the rest of our years, speaking for most of us who enjoy it. It never ends, there's no finished state

Yes sure - I am happy and also think many here on the forum would be very glad to help with any other questions you have here. If you find good German info maybe post a link here - could be useful to others.

Very cool of you to jump in! - I really mean that - you surely won't be dissapoint.

Thank you Jake!

I thought the limit was 1/2 semitones because of the sliders.

The thing I've noticed about radical de-tunings, is that the de-tuning you do remains relevant to the actual modelled string which you are tuning.

Explanation: so if you make some -1200 cent (down one octave) note edits, where for example Funky40 might want a bass note, that newly tuned down bass note will have totally different timbre compared to the sound of a thicker string down to the left of the keyboard.

People who string guitars will understand immediately, that if you put a nickel-wound bass string on, it won't stretch to make a high pitch before bending the neck and snapping as you try tightenning it.

I haven't played with limits - but the first -1200 and -2400 cent notes I tried sounded quite realistic, like a very loose string. But the realism was crazy good.

So, I'm really glad to see Pianoteq include that modelling. It's brilliant for those who like "treated" instruments for particular purposes to know they can tune strings up and down on the interface.

However, that might still pose a problem for those seeking to emulate placing "sampled" (any viable string sound from anywhere on the board) sounds per key.

Would the idea of mapping actual strings to actual keys be useful in future models - and would that be possible I wonder.

Learning something new about Pianoteq since day one - thanks again Jake!