Topic: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Hi all, I am new to pianoteq5. Just purchased it last week. My daw is cakewalk sonar x3.  And I am currently working on composing piano solo pieces. I m wandering which reverb vst do you use with pianoteq?

I own c2 breeze, which is thick and lush. It works great with ivory2 but sounded too thick with pianoteq. I m currently demo ikmultimedia's csr and think that it sounded very natural with pianoteq. Any opinion or suggestions?

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

I used third party reverbs until Version 5 of Pianoteq.  I use mostly the default internal reverbs now.  I have many convolution and algorithmic reverbs including CSR but my preference is ValhallaRoom.  Works great on just about anything!
  I believe they have a demo version.

      -Perry-

Last edited by Studiocat (06-10-2014 06:08)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

I'm curious, what are the advantages of recording/playing with third party softwares?

I've only been using the Pianoteq 5 Standard standalone and I'm really happy with it already. Am I missing out on anything?

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Hi knoa,
           There are 2 very common type of music software that many home studio musicians use. One is a DAW, Digital Audio Workstation. For ex, Cakewalk's Sonar, Ableton's Live or Properllorhead's Reason. These software allows you to record audio and midi from software synths plugins (ex. Pianoteq5). You can record multiple tracks to create a complete ensemble like band or orchestra music. Then you can mix and master all your tracks together as a stereo track for distribution.

           The second one is plugins. Plugins are divided into 2 categories. One is an instrument (ex piano vst like pianoteq, synthesizer like Massive or drum player like Addictive Drum) The second categories are generally effect plugins like reverb, compressor or a limiter.

Most plugins are used or "embedded" into a DAW for an all in a box recording and music productions workflow.

Cheers

Last edited by musichoo (06-10-2014 09:09)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

If you have the money, PhoenixVerb by Exponential Audio is superb.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Studiocat wrote:

I used third party reverbs until Version 5 of Pianoteq.  I use mostly the default internal reverbs now.  I have many convolution and algorithmic reverbs including CSR but my preference is ValhallaRoom.  Works great on just about anything!
  I believe they have a demo version.

      -Perry-

Do you share your setting in ValhallaRoom?

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

2C Audio Aether is AMAZING!! the quality and flexibility of this plugin is super awesome.  Definitely my favorite.  It the presets are great and when you know how to tweak it, the effects can be very powerful indeed.

As for with pianoteq, 50% of the time I'll leave the presets the way they are because they are great to start!  If I don't use the presets, I'll turn off the compression and reverb and add my own compression then reverb (or reverb then compression if I'm feeling frisky).

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

musichoo wrote:

I own c2 breeze, which is thick and lush. It works great with ivory2 but sounded too thick with pianoteq.

Did you try the high-pass filtering options inside Breeze? Generally speaking, reverberation applied to low frequencies produces a thick murky sound.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

hyper.real wrote:
musichoo wrote:

I own c2 breeze, which is thick and lush. It works great with ivory2 but sounded too thick with pianoteq.

Did you try the high-pass filtering options inside Breeze? Generally speaking, reverberation applied to low frequencies produces a thick murky sound.

Thanks for the tip. I will look into it.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

If you use a 3rd party reverb (plugin, or hardware) with Pianoteq, don't forget to switch off Pianoteq's internal reverb.

Personally I also switch off the built-in reverb if I play Pianoteq thru loudspeakers in a room with good enough acoustics. Often I like Pianoteq best without reverb. My (real) grand piano doesn't need any added reverb either.

For line-in recording it's a different story.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

m.tarenskeen wrote:

If you use a 3rd party reverb (plugin, or hardware) with Pianoteq, don't forget to switch off Pianoteq's internal reverb.

Personally I also switch off the built-in reverb if I play Pianoteq thru loudspeakers in a room with good enough acoustics. Often I like Pianoteq best without reverb. My (real) grand piano doesn't need any added reverb either.

For line-in recording it's a different story.

Yes I do switch off the build it reverb when I am using an external reverb.

Thanks for responding.

Last edited by musichoo (13-10-2014 00:23)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Sometimes Pianoteq's reverb sounds great, sometimes the reverb sounds mushy and a bit distorted.  I am not an experienced player - I am learning - so my lack of experience has a lot to do with this I am sure.  But in any case I am trying to learn more about reverb and all the parameters involved.

I have recently been playing and experimenting with ValhallaVintageVerb (I probably should have ValhallaRoom instead).  Trying to get what I want has been a chore.

Anyways, my question:   Is there a good place to read up on reverb?  I have done the searches and read some articles but there is nothing that really talks about reverb.  Everything is generalized.  I am just trying to learn and explore a bit.  Thanks.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

I own a long list of third-party reverbs, both algorithmic and convolution types -- all of which are quite good, whose brand names are confirmed by other forum members' testimonies in this thread.  They all have application with Pianoteq 5, but in my opinion, you will be completely happy with the reverb furnished by Pianoteq! 

As a person who creates demos for the Pianoteq website, I can tell you that all of my demos on the website utilize ONLY the internal reverbs furnished by Modartt.  Feel free to decide for yourself whether the furnished internal reverbs are adequate for your use.

Cheers,

Joe

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Reducing the Pre-delay to 0.0 cleans up that mushiness I was hearing.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

I also mostly use the Pianoteq own reverb; don't forget that you can use ANY impulse into it, so that, essentially, you have a free convolution reverb built-in. Why look elsewhere?
The only time I use another reverb is when I have to use the same one for other instruments in the mix, in order to give a similar reverb (or better "room simulation") for all of them together.

Last edited by Luc Henrion (16-03-2015 20:04)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Luc Henrion wrote:

I also mostly use the Pianoteq own reverb; don't forget that you can use ANY impulse into it, so that, essentially, you have a free convolution reverb built-in. Why look elsewhere?
The only time I use another reverb is when I have to use the same one for other instruments in the mix, in order to give a similar reverb (or better "room simulation") for all of them together.

+1

The problem is irrelevant when the reverb uses a wave file you can load in Pianoteq, otherwise swtiching to a third part plugin is the only way to go.
I am pretty satisfied with the internal reverb but being able to use also algorithmic reverb or other convolution reverbs allowing spatialization expands further your sound palette.

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

I use Altiverb to get some exotic reverbs.  However I love how Pianoteq's mic modeling enhances the built-in reverb.  The possible results are endless and amazing when you change the placement and type of mic.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Zynaptiq Adaptiverb. Simply incredible.

Pianoteq 8 Pro Studio with Classical Guitar and Organteq 2

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Reverberate 2 with the M7 Fusion IR's.  Just gorgeous!

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

I found that Pianoteq's built-in reverb seemed to change (in a bad way) the whole character of the sound, to the extent that I just had to turn it off altogether. I now use an old external hardware reverb - Lexicon MPX 500 - which I like a lot. It has digital i/o with which I connect it to my RME soundcard and I then use the RME mixer application to adjust send/return levels - works a treat.

But I use an external hardware unit simply because I happened to have it lying around. I'd be keen to try - for example - the Lexicon PCM Native reverb plugin but it's a lot of money and I don't know how to integrate something like a VST plugin reverb with Pianoteq, without having to run Pianoteq as a VST instrument in something like a DAW (which I don't really want the hassle of doing). It would be great if the Pianoteq standalone programme functioned as a VST host.

Or am I missing something?

Cheers, Ian.

N1X - PT Pro - Linux

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

IanL wrote:

I found that Pianoteq's built-in reverb seemed to change (in a bad way) the whole character of the sound, to the extent that I just had to turn it off altogether. I now use an old external hardware reverb - Lexicon MPX 500 - which I like a lot. It has digital i/o with which I connect it to my RME soundcard and I then use the RME mixer application to adjust send/return levels - works a treat.

But I use an external hardware unit simply because I happened to have it lying around. I'd be keen to try - for example - the Lexicon PCM Native reverb plugin but it's a lot of money and I don't know how to integrate something like a VST plugin reverb with Pianoteq, without having to run Pianoteq as a VST instrument in something like a DAW (which I don't really want the hassle of doing). It would be great if the Pianoteq standalone programme functioned as a VST host.

Or am I missing something?

Cheers, Ian.

Pianoteq standard/pro have a option to load external impulse responses inside of it. Go grab some free impulse responses (wav files) and load. I use ir-s from http://www.samplicity.com/bricasti-m7-i...responses/   and  http://www.samplicity.com/download/ They are high quality and sound beautiful. Also try http://www.avid.com/plugins/space-impul...se-library Good luck.

Last edited by slobajudge (14-09-2016 08:09)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

IanL wrote:

I found that Pianoteq's built-in reverb seemed to change (in a bad way) the whole character of the sound, to the extent that I just had to turn it off altogether. I now use an old external hardware reverb - Lexicon MPX 500 - which I like a lot. It has digital i/o with which I connect it to my RME soundcard and I then use the RME mixer application to adjust send/return levels - works a treat.

But I use an external hardware unit simply because I happened to have it lying around. I'd be keen to try - for example - the Lexicon PCM Native reverb plugin but it's a lot of money and I don't know how to integrate something like a VST plugin reverb with Pianoteq, without having to run Pianoteq as a VST instrument in something like a DAW (which I don't really want the hassle of doing). It would be great if the Pianoteq standalone programme functioned as a VST host.

Or am I missing something?

Cheers, Ian.

Yes, Pianoteq Reverb does change the sound because it's based on IRs which are actual recordings of a room. Each comes with its own color and the more reverb you mix, the more room sound and color you are going to hear. If you like the sound of the Lexicon PCM you might want to check PhoenixVerb or R2, the author is Michael Carnes who also wrote the algos for the Lexicon. They should be cheaper than Lexicon.

Last edited by Chopin87 (14-09-2016 15:28)
"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Hi all. I have been away from the forum until I have forgotten that I was the OP.  Haha. How I am using Sonar Platinum as my main DAW, Pianteq is still my go to piano although dependimg on the mood I would use the pianos from Komplete 10U. And my favorite reverb is now Aether. I had demoed almost all the best algo reverb vst under the sun and came to the conclusion that Aether is the best reverb for piano. BTW the creator pf Aether is also a pianist. It's included reverb presets for piano are top notch although I had learned to tweak it a little bit. I am glad that the included reverbs in Sonar are also very good for the job too. I also own N.I. RC48 reverb I like that very much. But Aether is my go to reverb for anything piano.

Last edited by musichoo (30-09-2016 15:54)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Good topic actually. Here's the thing. Because PianoTEQ is a modeled piano, but a very fine one at that. And because the fx section is the least of my cares when it comes to PianoTEQ (of course it's great for economy so at least it's sticking to the theme), I use one of three reverb types with PianoTEQ depending on what I'm doing.

I like PianoTEQ so much to me it's worth the effort.

1) To get a slightly more realistic soundboard and lid sound I frequent use convolution reverb loaded with the resonance of a real concert grand, combined with an eq based IR and then if needed I'll use a secondary room IR to get the impression of a real piano in a real room.

2) I also think Aether is a good reverb for PianoTEQ. It can do what I described above but has the ability to add some great color in the early reflections, then add a ton of late reflection which makes PianoTEQ a great ambient piano.

3) Sometimes, for practice, I'll try staging, eq'ing and adding various layers of convolution reverb to get PianoTEQ to sound like I'm sitting on the 15th row at a Piano Concerto.
With the right touch using something like MIR or VSS can be a lot of fun but it's harder than to get right than it might seem.

I could name reverbs for days that I've tried PianoTEQ with but at the end of the day don't forget to play with the built in mic emulation. That's a lot of fun right there. Convocation works well for jazz and concert style, while algorithmic is better for simmer, dazzle, pop or for any classic sound from the past 40 years.

Regards,
Steve Steele
stevesteele.com
Music theorist, composer, Vienna Ensemble Pro templates, YouTube channel (Mains: 2 Mac Pros, Digital Performer, Vienna Ensemble Pro, and an iPad Pro.)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

Thanks. Nightwatch for the insight!. Which convo reverb do you use? You mention layers of IR.
So far within this thread I had noticed 3 people including myself like to use Aether with pianoteq.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

musichoo wrote:

Hi all. I have been away from the forum until I have forgotten that I was the OP.  Haha. How I am using Sonar Platinum as my main DAW, Pianteq is still my go to piano although dependimg on the mood I would use the pianos from Komplete 10U. And my favorite reverb is now Aether. I had demoed almost all the best algo reverb vst under the sun and came to the conclusion that Aether is the best reverb for piano. BTW the creator pf Aether is also a pianist. It's included reverb presets for piano are top notch although I had learned to tweak it a little bit. I am glad that the included reverbs in Sonar are also very good for the job too. I also own N.I. RC48 reverb I like that very much. But Aether is my go to reverb for anything piano.

Agree, the 2C Audio reverbs are excellent. The simplest, and cheapest, is called Breeze and that should be more than adequate for most standard piano music. Sometimes you can get it on sale for pretty cheap.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

I was all ready to get PhoenixVerb based on reviews and samples, then during checkout I realized I had to purchase a 3rd party dongle. The dongle isn't cheap, plus, based on my interpretation of the fine print, if you ever change computers you have to pay a significant transfer fee. I couldn't support that.

ValhallaRoom was 2nd on my list based on reviews, but I couldn't find any good traditional acoustic examples. I tested the demo and liked what I heard, though it does take some time to learn the system. They do offer a nice resource for creating traditional halls, like the Boston Symphony Hall:

http://valhalladsp.com/2011/05/25/valha...ert-halls/

I started with the Boston Symphony Hall and adjusted it to taste. You can hear the initial results on my recent video in the 'recordings featuring pianoteq' forum:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=4682

Last edited by NathanShirley (01-10-2016 05:46)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

musichoo wrote:

Thanks. Nightwatch for the insight!. Which convo reverb do you use? You mention layers of IR.
So far within this thread I had noticed 3 people including myself like to use Aether with pianoteq.

Yeah. Aether is great with PianoTEQ.

About layering, there are several ways to go depending on what you want to achieve.

One is the same as how'd you'd setup an orchestral mixer signal flow. In the simplest version you could use one convo for ERs, one for coloring and one for late reflections.

Probably the granddaddy of all convo reverbs at the moment is Liqudsonics Reverberate. It's a dual true stereo convo that can modulate between IRs.

Someone I know who knows more about convolution reverb than just about anybody on the planet (he was involved with many of the early convo solutions) tells me that Revererate is a generation ahead of everyone else.

Obviously this may or may not make any difference in how you or anyone else wants to add reverb to PianoTEQ but I thought I'd make mention of it.

Check out a software manual on VSL's website before they pull it later this year. It's called FORTI/SERTI and it gives some interesting ways to stage an instrument, eq and instrument and more. Maybe over the top for some but it's good knowledge.

Otherwise I agree about Aether. Awesome reverb.

Regards,
Steve Steele
stevesteele.com
Music theorist, composer, Vienna Ensemble Pro templates, YouTube channel (Mains: 2 Mac Pros, Digital Performer, Vienna Ensemble Pro, and an iPad Pro.)

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

NathanShirley wrote:

I was all ready to get PhoenixVerb based on reviews and samples, then during checkout I realized I had to purchase a 3rd party dongle. The dongle isn't cheap, plus, based on my interpretation of the fine print, if you ever change computers you have to pay a significant transfer fee. I couldn't support that.

ValhallaRoom was 2nd on my list based on reviews, but I couldn't find any good traditional acoustic examples. I tested the demo and liked what I heard, though it does take some time to learn the system. They do offer a nice resource for creating traditional halls, like the Boston Symphony Hall:

http://valhalladsp.com/2011/05/25/valha...ert-halls/

I started with the Boston Symphony Hall and adjusted it to taste. You can hear the initial results on my recent video in the 'recordings featuring pianoteq' forum:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=4682

You are wise - there is also a kerfuffle on other forums about PhoenixVerb not being eligible for resale. I own PVerb and it's outstanding, but on the other hand my best recording to date was done using 2C Audio Breeze, which is just as good as PVerb. I will also demo ValhallaRoom just to see what I can do with it.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

honjr wrote:

I own PVerb and it's outstanding, but on the other hand my best recording to date was done using 2C Audio Breeze, which is just as good as PVerb.

You are referring to its application to Pianoteq, I presume? IMHO I am always aware of reverb on a sound when I use Breeze, whereas with Phoenixverb there is usually some magic mix ration where the reverb melds with the sound in a beautiful way to enhance the music. This is a comment about mixing music in DAW's, rather than live use of Pianoteq - I tend to stay with Pianoteq's reverbs. But in an acoustically nice room, and with appropriate amplification (ha! easier said then done), it would make sense to switch out the on-board reverb.

Re: which reverb do you like to go with pianoteq 5?

hyper.real wrote:
honjr wrote:

I own PVerb and it's outstanding, but on the other hand my best recording to date was done using 2C Audio Breeze, which is just as good as PVerb.

You are referring to its application to Pianoteq, I presume? IMHO I am always aware of reverb on a sound when I use Breeze, whereas with Phoenixverb there is usually some magic mix ration where the reverb melds with the sound in a beautiful way to enhance the music. This is a comment about mixing music in DAW's, rather than live use of Pianoteq - I tend to stay with Pianoteq's reverbs. But in an acoustically nice room, and with appropriate amplification (ha! easier said then done), it would make sense to switch out the on-board reverb.

Yes PV is very musical, tough to beat. I was a bit shocked to rediscover that my best recording used Breeze, since I always had thought PV was the best I'd heard for piano.   Based on NathanShirley's post I also checked out Valhalla Room and Shimmer - for me, Shimmer seems to add something new to my set of reverbs. I invest in more than one reverb for inspiration and to avert boredom!