Topic: Model B High Notes

Some of the high notes on the model B sound out of tune (or perhaps just too many extra resonances) when played Forte, especially around C6, what parameters can I adjust to improve the tuning (or remove the extra resonances).
Note: This is only at the beginning of the note, with the hammer strike.
I use the Prelude pre-set.

Last edited by Steve Edwards (10-05-2016 13:30)

Re: Model B High Notes

Although a dedicated piano tuner might be able to respond better than I could, on an acoustic piano, using so-called stretch tuning, the treble notes are often tuned a little sharp because they flatten immediately after the initial strike because of the relatively greater amount of tension with which the string is tuned, while the bass notes are often tuned a little flat in order that their partials (harmonics) be more in tune, since they are often registered by the ear more than the fundamental tone.

That said, a few days ago I noticed that a few notes of the Model B in the treble range did sound a little out of tune. A restart of the program fixed the issue, and I was never quite sure if I merely imagined it or not, or whether my mood might have caused the notes to seem that way, or whatever.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (10-05-2016 19:55)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Model B High Notes

Try reducing the Duplex scale in the Design panel.   That parameter adds extra resonance which I prefer to reduce.

Re: Model B High Notes

Thanks for the replies.
Lowering the Duplex scale has helped a lot, not sure I'm brave enough to play with the tuning. I just don't know what I'm doing with unison width and balance.
I agree with your philosophy on hearing, my ears also seam to change on a daily basis!

Re: Model B High Notes

Steve Edwards wrote:

Thanks for the replies.
Lowering the Duplex scale has helped a lot, not sure I'm brave enough to play with the tuning. I just don't know what I'm doing with unison width and balance.
I agree with your philosophy on hearing, my ears also seam to change on a daily basis!

The beauty of the Pianoteq 21st century pianos is that they are very easy to tune compared to an old fashioned acoustic.  There is really nothing to worry about.  If you like what you've done do a "save preset as" so you can get it back.  You can always call up the stock settings again.  In the FXP section I have a Bluethner "Clair de lune" piano that is radically sharpened in the treble.  That said, I really love the treble section on the "B" and have mostly played it as it comes out of the box.  Also I believe the Ruckers harpshord can be improved by detuning one of the registers and setting the condition at about 75 % or so.  For mimicking period instruments some out of tuneness adds character and realism.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Model B High Notes

A thought: It would be good to be able to apply different Condition settings to different ranges of a piano.  It's not unusual on neglected pianos to find that some ranges  have aged more than others., yes?

Re: Model B High Notes

What about a statistic recorder, like you play for 3 months, and the statistic algorithm canculate the most used keys, and the ones played harder, and based on that estipulate the aging of the piano on keyrange according you "pattern of use" ?
Based on the the condition slider would be applied.


Jake Johnson wrote:

A thought: It would be good to be able to apply different Condition settings to different ranges of a piano.  It's not unusual on neglected pianos to find that some ranges  have aged more than others., yes?

Re: Model B High Notes

Beto-Music wrote:

What about a statistic recorder, like you play for 3 months, and the statistic algorithm canculate the most used keys, and the ones played harder, and based on that estipulate the aging of the piano on keyrange according you "pattern of use" ?
Based on the the condition slider would be applied.

As a professional piano tuner, I encounter pianos in all sorts of conditions, ranging from being hardly played at all, to thoroughly worn out instruments, and everything in between.  The first thing I notice is "hammer condition" in a real piano.  A number of years ago, after having first acquired Pianoteq PRO, I began aging my pianos in a similar manner:  in the so-called "grand staff" of C2 to C6 (Middle C +/-two octaves) I would slightly raise all three hammer hardness sliders (to simulate additional wear from normal playing), and slightly detune (not so much unison width, but randomly increase and decrease notes' pitches by -1, -.5, 0, +.5 and +1 cents) the notes in this range.  Similarly, I slightly increase action noise in this range as well.

The whole idea is not to make these changes "obvious", i.e., if you immediately perceive these changes then you have changed things too much.


Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (13-05-2016 16:13)

Re: Model B High Notes

That is great info Joe! 

Have you or could you post a few of your presets so that us mere mortals could understand how you tweak PTQ to get the most out of a modeled piano?  That would be awesome.  Trained and Certified piano tuners understand what a good quality piano should sound and play like since they see everything.  The good, bad and the ugly.

Last edited by HwyStar (13-05-2016 17:36)

Re: Model B High Notes

Those are very interesting comments, Joe. Thank you for sharing your perspective on the subject from a piano tuner's experience.

Some of your suggestions might involve the use of the Note Edit functionality in Pianoteq Pro, such as the detune parameter with which individual notes' tunings can be sharpened or flattened, correct?

I have been using and enjoying the Note Edit functionality a lot more than I thought I would when I first upgraded to the Pro version of Pianoteq. It is wonderful to change certain notes or ranges of notes to be more suitable to one's ears, or to compensate for a MDI keyboard the velocity sensors of which are not all calibrated perfectly or correctly (on my StudioLogic SL88 Grand MIDI keyboard, a few of the keys register very noticeably higher or lower velocities than their neighbors, which is easy to compensate for in Pianoteq's Note Edit feature).

---

Added later--
I just used Pianoteq Pro's Note Edit functionality to include the suggestions made by Joe (jcfelice88keys), a few replies earlier in the discussion, to my already self-customized or personalized Model B, using the "Detune" (raise or lower pitch), "Hammer Hardness" (Hammer Hard. piano, Hammer Hard. mezzo and Hammer Hard. forte) and "Hammer Noise" parameters, using control notes in Note Edit to affect only the two octaves on either side of middle C (or in the case of detuning, using the Simple Draw editing function on those four octaves), and I'm not sure whether I'm merely imagining it because I want to, but the Model B is sounding very nice and realistic to my ears using headphones or the studio monitors.

Thanks to the Pianoteq developers for the Model B grand piano (and for Pianoteq itself of course), and thank you Joe for your suggestions.
---

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (14-05-2016 15:09)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Model B High Notes

Thank you to all who have read my suggestions for getting more out of Pianoteq PRO from a piano tuner's/technician's perspective.

It was exactly these ideas that gave rise to Modartt's creating the "piano condition" slider, a few years ago.

Agreeing completely, at first thought it seems that the PRO version might be "overkill" for some pianists.  However, the more I use the note edit feature in PRO, the more I find I cannot do without it!  I might add some other insights that help make the Pianoteq experience come alive for me.  These are done on a regular basis -- and, sorry to say, I do NOT save them as presets!! (Why not?  Because I like to tweak here and there differently on different days or moods! -- besides, it's very easy to do and it only "increases" the pleasure of Pianoteq ... it never detracts from the pleasure, as long as these little edits are done in moderation.)

When in the Pianoteq PRO note edit window:
Hammer hardness: In the Mezzo window, I grab the centermost blue dot and raise just that center dot from hardness of .80 --> .86 or .87.  THEN, I click the "randomize" button once or twice.  This has the effect of raising hammer hardness slightly randomly more in the grand staff, and also allows just a bit of variation across the whole keyboard!  This feature really makes the live playing experience "really come alive"!!!

Repeat for the other two hammer sliders.  Please note, there is a slight variation across the piano, and by randomizing slightly, these differences even show up between soft and louder playing -- because different hammer hardnesses are affected across the keyboard, dependent upon note-on velocity!

Spectrum Profile -- usually I leave this alone;  occasionally, I will simply click the randomize button once or twice, for variety.  Do NOT overdo this, or the piano will sound strikingly different [pun intended], and you might give up further experimentation.

Hammer Noise -- I apply similar changes as denoted in Hammer Hardness, above.  The trick is to increase the blue dot in the center of the note edit screen from 1.00 --->  1.12 to maybe 1.15, then randomize with only one or two clicks.

Strike Point This is one of Pianoteq's undiscussed gems!!! Randomizing the strike points unleashes beautiful overtones to the individual notes -- that you might otherwise miss!

Sympathetic Resonance  Again, a simple few clicks of the randomize button will make nice subtle changes, especial to legato playing using the damper pedal.

Duplex scale resonance -- In my opinion as a piano tuner, duplex scaling is a "cure without a disease"!  Steinway introduced it a long time ago -- the theory being that the small remaining lengths of string will resonate either harmonically (which they claim) or non-harmonically (which they can't prove), and create a more "bell-like" tone.  If this is true, then why does Steinway use felt strips to dampen all of the short lengths of the lower 68 notes' strings?  It doesn't hold water. (Incidentally, a "bell-like" tone is associated with odd harmonics in a piano with high inharmonicity -- otherwise proclaimed as an undesirable effect!)

Therefore, I do nothing with adjusting duplex scale resonance.

Damper Position This is another interesting adjustment that affects the overtones of the strings WHILE the dampers silence the strings' vibrations.  I simply randomize them with one or two clicks of the Randomize button.

Damping Duration In my opinion, this is a very important adjustment.  Why?  That's because longer, thicker strings have more vibrational inertia than do thin strings.  Therefore, I tend to INCREASE the duration of the lowest octave from 1.00 to about 1.15 and then randomize them.  Interestingly, and this is especially true of the Blüthner's aliquot strings, I INCREASE the damping duration, progressively in the top 1-2 octaves.  Why?  That's because there are no dampers in a real piano's top octave!  So, let them ring!

Key Release Noise I treat key release noise in the same manner as Hammer Hardness. -- More wear in the grand staff.

In conclusion:

I make it a practice to adjust (and randomize) some -- but not all -- of these parameters on any given day.  Most notably, I do NOT save them as presets, because there would be too many presets hanging around that I would not use more than once or twice.

Again, the desired effect of these slight randomizations is to make the piano sound and behave in a more "organic" way (whatever that means!).  If you are able to tell an immediate/difference, then you have possibly overdone the tweaking.

The overall goal is to have fun with Pianoteq and to have fun with your music making!

Thanks for having read this far.

Cheers,

Joe

EDIT Added Later:

On the subject of "organic":  A piano is a living, breathing entity that picks up and releases moisture, dependent upon temperature and season of the year, and your climatic location around the world.  Real pianos DO behave differently on different days and in different seasons because of this fact.  All wood that is not petrified ... will pick up and release moisture content.  Ironically, a good piano will even go "sharp" in the summertime.  Why?  That's because the soundboard, although varnished on one surface, still picks up ambient moisture and tends to expand against the strings.   To those customers whom I tune 4 or more times per year, I "allow" the instrument to sharpen to A442 or A443 during the summer months, and then allow it to sag to A439 or A440 during the winter months.  Why?  I wish NOT to be constantly turning the tuning pegs in the pinblock, and risk making them come loose!  JCF

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (13-05-2016 20:40)

Re: Model B High Notes

jcfelice88keys, thanks for the great post and deployed. Could you put one "fxp" file for example? I hope to become the owner of the pro version at some future time. Settings similar to the ones that you describe, I would like to use. Another would add a little randomized in unison settings.

Re: Model B High Notes

Some fascanating information, thanks for the replies, I'm now playing with the damping duration and position allong with all parameters pertaning to the hammer strike, this is the one that I find the most difficult to get to grips with.
It only takes a movement of my head and the sound changes, then again I suppose it should, although in reality we don't have the focal point of a stereo field do contend with.
That said, I can't keep away from the piano since I discovered Pianoteq, it is as they say, so playable, especially with the Model B

Re: Model B High Notes

To Joe (jcfelice88keys)--

Thank you very much for sharing your insights and suggestions for using various Pianoteq features including the parameters available in Note Edit, and not only that, but for your information about acoustic pianos and how they behave and sound, and why, from a piano tuner's perspective.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (14-05-2016 15:07)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Model B High Notes

Thanks again Joe for the second post too.  I also; like scherbakov.al have the Standard version and can't edit the notes like you can in the pro version.  I'm curious to hear what an organic PTQ preset would sound like compared to the presets I am able to create.  Yes, sometimes the standard version sounds "to perfect" and does not have enough realism in it like a finely tuned grand does. 

My real grand piano is always a joy to play and has moods just like you have described.  If the weather changes then so does my piano.  And because of this, sometimes when I play PTQ compared to my grand piano I notice something is missing.  It gets back to that piano's are living breathing organisms and they reflect their changes.  You can hear the difference but can't put your finger on what has changed.  Some days it blows you away, some days meh.  All 230 strings can't always be perfectly in tune, all of the time!

Thanks again Joe.

Re: Model B High Notes

What a shame! Some high notes are not only out of tune but also a bit too clunky for my taste. A few notes in the low mid range also sound an old digital Roland SAS piano, but, alas, every Pianoteq piano seems to have that problem. Other than that, the Model B could be the best one so far. I still prefer the D4 because it sounds more homogeneous, especially the high notes. Really, if these high notes were like the rest of the piano, it would have been a no-brainer purchase.


Alex

Re: Model B High Notes

Have a look at this thread:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=4221

3/2 = 5

Re: Model B High Notes

Alex Cremers wrote:

What a shame! Some high notes are not only out of tune but also a bit too clunky for my taste.

In addition to Steve's and others' comments, be aware that in common tunings (temperaments) such as equal temperament, the low notes are often progressively flattened and the high notes progressively sharpened, in what is sometimes called stretch tuning. Pianoteq has an "Octave stretching" slider to increase or decrease the amount of this effect, the treble sharpening and bass flattening. If you want no detuning at all between unison strings (multiple piano strings tuned to the same note and struck by the same hammer) and across the range of the piano keyboard from bass to treble, you might set the Unison Width slider to its minimum, and the temperament from "equal" (or whichever other tuning had been selected) to "flat" (which enforces a state of no octave stretching at all).

From the Pianoteq manual--

4.4 Octave stretching

It is quite usual to stretch octaves6 in a piano, but how much should they be stretched?
Well… this might be a matter of taste! Adjust it to your own taste by modifying:

* The octave stretching parameter. The main effect will be observed in the treble
notes.

When the octave stretching parameter is set to 1, the stretching follows the natural
inharmonicity of the strings (depending on the string length), so there still is a slight
stretching. If you want no stretching at all, then use the flat temperament.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (14-05-2016 17:29)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Model B High Notes

Alex Cremers wrote:

What a shame! Some high notes are not only out of tune but also a bit too clunky for my taste. A few notes in the low mid range also sound an old digital Roland SAS piano, but, alas, every Pianoteq piano seems to have that problem. Other than that, the Model B could be the best one so far. I still prefer the D4 because it sounds more homogeneous, especially the high notes. Really, if these high notes were like the rest of the piano, it would have been a no-brainer purchase.


Alex

Keep in mind that electro mechanical speakers have "hard spots" in them which will make certain pitches (notes) sound dead or "clunky" as you describe.  This is very noticeable on the old Fender Rhodes pianos with the magnetic pickups on each tine.  I had my Pianoteq set up in my own house very much to my liking and took it over to a friends house, and it sounded terrible there, not at all the way it sounded in my own home, so you have to adjust it to accommodate the room's unique acoustical properties.

Last edited by GRB (15-05-2016 21:28)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Model B High Notes

Would a mere mortal with Pianoteq Standard be able to "read" an fxp with these individual note Pro details and overtones? If so, is such an fxp available for Model B?

Last edited by Fleer (17-05-2016 03:51)
Pianoteq 8 Pro Studio with Classical Guitar and Organteq 2

Re: Model B High Notes

Yes, you can do that with Standard, but not with Stage.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Model B High Notes

My knee-Jerk reaction to this idea of continuous modifications to the various parameters in order to simulate how a real piano changes with changing environmental factors is .....

Sorry ... but .... ARE YOU KIDDING ME ?

I want to play the piano not spend my time tuning it.


Now, having said that ....

If there is any perceived value to this (and there may very well be), this sounds like something the folks at Pianoteq may wish to pick up on and build in a feature which allows for constant randomizing (within user defined ranges) for these parameters (again user defined) in order to build in the "organic" feature of the sound.

Just a thought from one who wishes to turn on my piano and play it.

Re: Model B High Notes

EvilDragon wrote:

Yes, you can do that with Standard, but not with Stage.

Then I would love to try out some fxp's with the suggested organic note-per-note refinements and overtones

Pianoteq 8 Pro Studio with Classical Guitar and Organteq 2

Re: Model B High Notes

ddascher wrote:

Just a thought from one who wishes to turn on my piano and play it.

That's what I want to do too. However, often when I'm playing the piano I would like to change the volume or timbre of a particular note or range of notes, as I've always wanted to do on the many acoustic pianos I've played or owned in the past but was unable to do, except for minor modifications to the felt of the hammers that I learned to do (but was afraid to do more extensively).

With Pianoteq, I find it so satisfying to so easily be able to make these modifications, even on a note by note basis or affecting only a small range of notes, that I use it all the time, and much more frequently than I thought I would do so when I upgraded to Pianoteq Pro. However, I tend to save a modified instrument as a personal preset so that I don't need to do the adjustments every time, and I do it less frequently as I continue to make small customizations over time. I often copy many of those Note-Edit adjustments to other instruments I play in Pianoteq, as a starting point, before customizing them further and saving them as a preset.

So I find this feature of Pianoteq immensely helpful in addressing the minor annoyances I hear depending on whether I'm listening through headphones or speakers, the position of the speakers in the room, even perhaps the mood I'm in or the particular piece I'm playing, the uneven eccentricities of the MIDI keyboard I'm using (which has 3 velocity sensors per note, making quickly repeating notes and fast trills easier, but making the velocity-sensing calibration of each key more challenging), etc.

So, to each his or her own.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (17-05-2016 16:51)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Model B High Notes

The random tweaking seems to be interesting, but only available for the users with the Pro version. Anyway, if the results are good, it is worth the price.

Now even with the use of randomisation, the problem with all the DP and piano softwares is that the sound remains static, whereas a real piano sound evolves with time ( some weeks or months).

If I remember well, I was the first to mention the idea that it would be interesting to have a continuous "auto detune" function that could alter the tuning and the setting of the main sound of Pianoteq in an unpredictable way, but so slowly that you can only hear it after some weeks or months, as it goes with a piano. This could be an idea to find a little more liveliness with no need to tweak the piano, just let it detune naturally and when you hear it wrong, go back to the initial state with one click.

I know that I did a lot of people smile at that time... maybe it is time now to consider this kind of concept?

Now, sorry in advance if I am off topic,


SK

Last edited by stamkorg (17-05-2016 17:55)

Re: Model B High Notes

stamkorg wrote:

If I remember well, I was the first to mention the idea that it would be interesting to have a continuous "auto detune" function that could alter the tuning and the setting of the main sound of Pianoteq in an unpredictable way, but so slowly that you can only hear it after some weeks or months, as it goes with a piano. This could be an idea to find a little more liveliness with no need to tweak the piano, just let it detune naturally and when you hear it wrong, go back to the initial state with one click.

Well, I for one would certainly not want that feature to be automatic (perhaps configurable by on/off checkbox in the preferences). But isn't that basically what the condition slider does, from "Mint" to "Worn" conditions, or something similar to that process?

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (17-05-2016 18:14)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Model B High Notes

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

But isn't that basically what the condition slider does, from "Mint" to "Worn" conditions, or something similar to that process?

Yes it is, but unless you change manually the position of this slider, it remains a static and fixed parameter. I would like to see an automated function of this kind.

Re: Model B High Notes

stamkorg wrote:

Yes it is, but unless you change manually the position of this slider, it remains a static and fixed parameter. I would like to see an automated function of this kind.

I see. I would personally not wish for such a feature to be automated, unless specifically chosen and turned on by the user in the Pianoteq preferences (and I'm guessing that's what you meant). I like the piano sounding as though a piano tuner has visited it every day.

However, I do like the fact that minor, random differences can be made on a note-by-note basis in the hardness of the felt hammers, volume of the notes and other factors that would not be entirely uniform on even an ideally tuned and serviced instrument.

But each person will have his or her own preferences.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (17-05-2016 20:07)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Model B High Notes

For those using the Standard version of Pianoteq who would like to try some of the randomization mentioned in this discussion thread, the Model B instrument presets already have quite a lot of minor variation in some of the instrument's parameters, and a few not so minor individual note variations (for the sake of realism, I assume), along with some graduated variations mostly in the treble or bass ranges. I think that might be one reason the Model B sounds so good to begin with, even with no modification.

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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Model B High Notes

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

For those using the Standard version of Pianoteq who would like to try some of the randomization mentioned in this discussion thread, the Model B instrument presets already have quite a lot of minor variation in some of the instrument's parameters, and a few not so minor individual note variations (for the sake of realism, I assume), along with some graduated variations mostly in the treble or bass ranges. I think that might be one reason the Model B sounds so good to begin with, even with no modification.


Hello Stephen,

I agree with you, completely, regarding slight variations in hammer hardness, strike point, etc, especially as they pertain to being built into various Model B presets.  (Please note:  some of these slight variations are "built-in" even when hammer hardness 'appears' to be uniform from key-to-key in the Pro version.)  If you wish to hear an extreme example of what an "inorganic" piano sounds like (with essentially zero difference between notes), you only need to try an entry-level (less than $79 USD) 49-note "toy electronic piano" from Casio or Yamaha found in any big box department store.

Personally, I believe there is more variation in the strength of one's own fingers than in any fine-quality acoustic grand piano that has just been tuned and regulated by a competent technician.

Cheers,

Joe

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (17-05-2016 20:38)

Re: Model B High Notes

Once you learn to tune an acoustic, you'll soon become aware of the many annoying issues.  Pianoteq is a dream in comparison.  It's so easy to adjust the tuning and there's even a read out in "cents."  I love the quality of the Pianoteq sound.  A lot of people aren't aware that their beloved acoustic actually sucks, because they've become accustomed to the sound.  Many seem to think their own piano was most certainly built by Guaneri's decendants.   There is a lot of joy in getting the sound you prefer, and Pianoteq is great at achieving this.  Your Pianoteq voice will be more realistic when lacks complete perfection.  The trouble with most pianists is they don't tune their own instruments like violinists and wind players do.  Trust me, sax reeds are very temperamental and don't have a very long life span.  Pete Fountain said he was lucky to find one good reed in an entire box.  Pianos are left untuned sometimes for years, their hammers are generally too hard, the strings are tired, the sound board is sagging, the bridge may be cracked.  Moths may have eaten the hammers and other felts, termites may be chewing away at the action and be living inside the case.  The damper pedal may be out of adjustment, and the soft pedal may be moving the keybed too much or not enough.   The dampers may be vibrating on the bass strings.  It just goes on and on.  With Pianoteq, you just worry about the position of your sliders which all have a digital read out.  It couldn't be easier.

Last edited by GRB (17-05-2016 23:14)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Model B High Notes

Excellent way of expressing yourself, GRB; a pleasure to read, and with a great, wry sense of humor too.

The more I use Pianoteq, the more I love it. Pianoteq is so easy to customize and configure, and as you mention (regarding the cents readout (% sharp or flat with respect to the adjacent equal-tempered tones/frequencies, if I'm correct) very rich (complete) and helpful.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (17-05-2016 23:24)
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Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Model B High Notes

Following GB's recent posts, the room's acoustics do make a huge difference, one reason why the Standard version is useful/essential. (I have so far resisted the Pro version but ......) Moving house recently proved this point. And yes, we pianists tend to have little idea of how our instrument works - there are exceptions of course, including some on this forum. Having owned a harpsichord for 20 years I know the difference between playing an instrument without being much aware of how it works and getting to know an instrument intimately and adjusting it to suit my taste, where it lives and the changes in air quality.

So adjusting PT settings was a necessity after moving and is a joy in terms of getting to know how each instrument ticks. It is important, when making "permanent" changes to an instrument, to leave the preset for a while.  Your ears need to get over the novelty and the room acoustics will keep changing subtly due to changes in humidity.  It takes a while.

The Model B is wonderful, but I am putting up with the D an octave above middle C sounding slightly 'cracked' when playing live through the small monitors.  Transferring a recording to another room with different speakers and acoustics the sound is fine.  Pro may enable me to reduce the difference/compromise.  (I am trying to capture some recordings before the arthritis gets too much)

Re: Model B High Notes

jcfelice88keys wrote:

Personally, I believe there is more variation in the strength of one's own fingers than in any fine-quality acoustic grand piano that has just been tuned and regulated by a competent technician.

Well as someone said on the Sax forum from which I was booted off during the Busch Age for posting, "It's too bad there's no one in the Whitehouse that could appreciate your playing," or something to that effect, "It's the Indian, not the arrows." But  I do have to say Modartt makes some pretty "true" arrows.  I consider Pianoteq to be a 21st Century piano created for the digital age.  Cheaper, more adaptable, more versatile, equally musical, and perhaps more pleasurable to have in the home because it offers so much more for so much less, and as every one knows, in the world of art, "less is more."

Last edited by GRB (18-05-2016 23:21)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Model B High Notes

Fleer wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:

Yes, you can do that with Standard, but not with Stage.

Then I would love to try out some fxp's with the suggested organic note-per-note refinements and overtones

You can try these Model B Prelude based FXPs I made for another Pianteq forum member. They "clean up" the sound near C5 and above (but most strongly around C5) by reducing duplex scale resonance for these notes (see pic below). The effect is stronger in the second fxp. I myself don't use these custom presets as I'm quite happy with the model B as is, but if you are finding the higher notes (from A4 up) too dissonant, colourful, harsh or "dirty", they should help tame that:

* Model B Prelude Yuri X0.fxp
* Model B Prelude Yuri X1.fxp


http://s6.postimg.org/764ku7bup/pianoteq_model_b_yuri_x0.jpg

Last edited by SteveLy (23-05-2016 08:36)
3/2 = 5

Re: Model B High Notes

Thank you, Steve, much appreciated. Will try these out next weekend.

Pianoteq 8 Pro Studio with Classical Guitar and Organteq 2

Re: Model B High Notes

. . . quoting GRB: "It just goes on and on.  With Pianoteq, you just worry about the position of your sliders which all have a digital read out."


And they stay there!

Kudos,

Lanny

Re: Model B High Notes

I found out Chopin prefers the Bluethner over the Model B.  Op.48 No.1 really brings out some of the raunchy character of the Model B.  I was very much surprised, as the Model B sounded fine on the Bach Goldberg Variations. In general I prefer pianos that are mellow in character.  Some intervals on the Model B can be very harsh and almost out of tune.  For sure the harmonics are on fact out of tune.

Last edited by GRB (27-05-2016 02:12)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Model B High Notes

GRB wrote:

Chopin prefers the Bluethner over the Model B

'must have been quite a séance!

but seriously, if you haven't already then I'd suggest you give something like Op 48/1 a try on the 1835 Pleyel with some sort of non-equal temperament, if only for "amusement"... 'would be curious to hear your impressions on using one of the "funny old pianos".

Last edited by _DJ_ (27-05-2016 21:14)
Matthieu 7:6

Re: Model B High Notes

GRB wrote:

Some intervals on the Model B can be very harsh and almost out of tune.

.

Between the typical stretch tuning of a piano to compensate for wire-wound bass strings and tightly tensioned treble strings (which decay a little flat), detuned unisons and the slightly out-of-tune nature of the equal-temperament tuning even when it is perfectly "in tune" for that tuning system, I suppose I began to develop a tolerance for and then a fondness for the complex interactions of frequencies produced by a "perfectly tuned" piano, some of the more complex mathematical and acoustic interrelationships of which are only present and possible in a modern equal tempered 12-tone scale, which itself made possible (at least according to my current understanding) many of the complex harmonies of romantic music such as much of the output of Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov, the impressionists including Ravel and Debussy, and much of more modern music. Even the complex chromatic music of Bach, Mozart and Beethoven relies upon "impure" tunings that alter natural perfect intervals of fifths and fourths.

I like the Model B, which seems to have a bright attack superimposed upon a rich, sonorous background, making it good for rapidly articulated and defined music passages as well as simpler or slower, sustained musical phrases or pieces.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (28-05-2016 14:29)
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