Topic by Stephen_Doonan

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Topic: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

David Klavins is a German piano maker / restorer. For some time he has given thought to what he might consider an ideal piano, one the sound and mechanical action of which comes closest to what he imagines as ideal. He has built his Klavins Model 370, the world's largest piano (longest bass strings and largest soundboard), a two-story high permanent installation (like most pipe organs).

The PianoTeq developers might consider creating a Pianoteq instrument version of the Klavins Model 370. There is only one model 370 in the entire world; the only way most people will ever be able to play it is as a virtual instrument.

An internet search (at ddg.gg for example) will produce many results for David Klavins and his piano Model 370. Here is a brief YouTube video about it.

https://youtu.be/_uxrhmjraXc

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Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (08-02-2016 20:55)
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Reply by EvilDragon

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

Yep, it would be cool. However it already exists in the virtual world as a sample library (NI's "The Giant"). I don't know if NI had any special deals with Klavins, so it might be a NI exclusive, which would prevent Modartt from taking a shot at modeling it...

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Reply by lowendtheory

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

EvilDragon wrote:

Yep, it would be cool. However it already exists in the virtual world as a sample library (NI's "The Giant"). I don't know if NI had any special deals with Klavins, so it might be a NI exclusive, which would prevent Modartt from taking a shot at modeling it...

PM me for more details on that front

Reply by Wheat Williams

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

I would be more interested in a Pianoteq virtual model of the new Una Corda design by David Klavins. It has a beautiful delicate sound and I suspect Pianoteq could emulate it well.

http://klavins-pianos.com/b/unacorda_en.htm

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Last edited by Wheat Williams (09-02-2016 00:59)
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Reply by SteveLy

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

Wheat Williams wrote:

I would be more interested in a Pianoteq virtual model of the new Una Corda design by David Klavins. It has a beautiful delicate sound and I suspect Pianoteq could emulate it well.

As I mentioned on another thread you can get a sound very close to it, setting Unison width to zero, and tweaking the hammer hardness and the Una Corda i.e. "Soft" pedal setting (leaving the Una Corda pedal permanently down using the GUI). If/when I have spare time I might investigate further and upload an FXP file. But I did not save the preset because I got bored with the sound pretty quickly. I think the novelty wears off after 15-20 minutes and one appreciates the modern (or even not so modern, i.e., up to ~200 y.o.) piano's richer palatte. (But that's very subjective, of course.)

Last edited by SteveLy (09-02-2016 02:14)
3/2 = 5

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Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

Kalvin 370 looks impressive...
Would it sound impressive as a modelled version too ?

I'm sure it sound impressive live, after all it have a giant soundboard. But what would you get from a speaker ???
Even if the modelled version got perfect, you don't have a giant soundboard.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea. It's just not the same thing, after all the goal of this piano it's the size and power of sound.



In the opposite side, world's smallest piano:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUQ6DXM90NA

Reply by opus.quatre

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

Hello People..
I own Pianoteq 6 stage.. But using Pianoteq 6  demo, I have had access to parameters which I cannot access using Stage..
So I experimented with them.. My main wish was to approach the sound of the Dulcitone, and the sound and atmosphere of Klavins "unacorda"..
I don't know what you will think of those presets that I created;; They are not an exact simulation of the Unacorda sound, but I think they are in a similar kind of mood..
Here they are..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/86qsti87k15f1...a.fxp?dl=0
(This one is, to me, the best of those 3)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gpuc4xegsvl0q...2.fxp?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkyejrlenq7hr...g.fxp?dl=0

All of those files will load in Standard or Pro, but not in Stage.. Sorry..
But you can hear the result on my Soundclown;
https://soundcloud.com/opus-quatre/thp-...rda-preset
https://soundcloud.com/opus-quatre/tht-...ngunacorda

Hoping you will enjoy them..
Any comment, feedback and critic will be welcome..
Have a nice day or night..
Thierry

Last edited by opus.quatre (27-03-2019 21:37)

Reply by NathanShirley

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

opus.quatre: Great harmonies in Couleurs Passées, very nice chromatic shifts.

Last edited by NathanShirley (03-04-2019 08:19)
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Reply by dklein

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

opus.quatre - Hey, that's quite good, especially between B0 and B4 for the Blooming Unacorda 2 preset (on the higher end, the sound is better at higher velocities only and has too much 'snap' without enough tone at velocities below 100).  I have the Native Instruments UnaCorda, and you've really captured the feel in this range (I like the two example pieces, as well!).

Last edited by dklein (01-04-2019 11:36)
- David

Reply by RedSurfer

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

Opus quatre, your  “Couleurs Passées” is a beautiful piece of music. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks.

Reply by opus.quatre

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

Thanx guys for you nice comment, about my compos.. That's always pleasant to read, even if that was not the topic..
Have a nice day..
Thierry

Last edited by opus.quatre (04-04-2019 00:53)

Reply by opus.quatre

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

Still trying to approach the Unacorda universe, here is another file..
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n8bjvjjpqez9n...9.fxp?dl=0
Unfortunately, there is a peak in amplitude around E2 which I cannot avoid..

And here in situation, on a beautiful Michel Petrucciani's compo :
https://soundcloud.com/opus-quatre/thp-...acorda-999

I don't think I will go further in trying to emulate the Unacorda, as Pianoteq doesn't allow much more tweaking..
No worry, cause if I didn't really succeed, I anyway have sounds that I like to use, so that's ok for me..
And I wish it will be ojk for you too..

Have a nice time..
Thierry

Reply by dklein

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

Thanks for the new FXP.  I like it better keeping the Output settings from the #2 file.  And I think that it's humorous that you jumped the number to 999 as a way to indicate the state of the project!

I tried to do this myself but gave up.  Here was my tread from 3 years ago, and the FXP that I had created at that time:

https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=4699


That was way back in my early stages of using Pianoteq, and the results are pretty bad!  I like yours much better.  :-)

It's a very cool topic, as it combines elements of the acoustic piano along with elements of the electric pianos.  In fact, I wonder if tweaking an electric piano would be easier?  In any case, thanks for going MUCH further than I did on the preset creation.

- David

- David

Reply by opus.quatre

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

I tried your fxp..
In fact, when we talk of the Unacorda sound, it's like when we talk about piano sounds : They are much different, from each other, and it"s the same with the Unacorda, depending on which fabric (or none) you use..
I'm not sure that your fxp was trying to catch the same Unacorda as mine..

Anyway.. I don't know what PTQ was able of, 3 years ago, when you started tweaking your Bluethner.. Did the K2 exist at the time ??
The first thing I have been tweaking, was the "blooming" parameter, thus the name of my presets.. And I did it on the K2 because it's my favorite for now (that is, until I buy the Ant Petrof)
And sure, the "blooming" doesn't have the same effect on the Steinway D and the K2, as on all other pianos.. On the k2 or on the Steinway D, it tends to give a more percussive sound, a very short initial decay, while the "impedance"  compensates it.. and at the same time, this "blooming" tends to concentrate the energy on the very first harmonics..
on other pianos, the effect is different.. It tends to emphasize the higher harmonics, and to slow down their attack.. It sometimes gives a "trumpet-like" attack.. Or a glass-harmonica..

All this sounds terribly technical,. I'm ashamed of that, be sure..

Anyway, if anyone, including you, would want to tweak my fxp, or to use it in any recording, I would welcome him, and would love to hear the result..
On my side, and as you smartly pointed it, the "999" number of my last preset really means that I've no intention to go further.. I might do, one day, but by now, the probability is very little..

Have  a nice day, or night..
Thierry

Reply by dklein

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Re: Instrument idea - Klavins 370

Very interesting, indeed.  My old preset is helped by raising the dynamics to 40.  I tried changing the blooming, but it just makes it sound more metallic, and not in a good way.  The blooming in fact does change characteristics on different instruments.  I also tried getting to an Una Corda via the Space Drums, Dreamy and via the MkI instruments, but no wonderful breakthroughs, yet.  Yours is really quite good, especially in the midrange on the piano keyboard.

- David