Starting to lose faith

Hi Matthew,

Do not worry. Besides introducing new physically modelled instruments (pianos and other instruments), we are continuously improving the Pianoteq physical model. There is a lot of development going on behind closed doors so to speak. Whenever we have something new, we will announce it on our website and in the newsletter.

Hello Matthew,

I think you will notice that the good people at Modartt DO make improvements on existing instruments.  Witness the change in sound of the Steinway Model D (9' German concert grand) between Version 4 and Version 5.  A new model of the soundboard was made in Pianoteq's Version 5, and those changes were back applied to existing pianos.  The reason the D4 is called "D4" ... is because it came out when Version 4 was the most current version.  The piano was not renamed D5 when Version 5 came out (as I understand), so as not to confuse people who had already worked with the Model D in version 4.

Regarding Modartt's decision to add more instruments, and please be assured that I am NOT on Modartt's payroll, is one of marketing.  Ironically, Pianoteq's instruments have never become obsolete; they have only gotten better and have offered a larger choice from which to select.

Cheers,

Joe

What are your specific concerns---can you list specific problems in the sound of specific instruments?

Historical models (KiViR) WERE handsomely updated some time ago during v5. Updated add-on is freely available in your user area, had you bothered to check before posting. And Kremsegg collection was added (more historical instruments). New instruments recently added might not be useful to you, but they WILL be useful to many other players who need more than just a single piano sound. This is the strength of Pianoteq - offering variety along with quality.

Also yes, if you had trouble achieving dynamics, you most likely didn't set up your MIDI controller's velocity curve AND Pianoteq's velocity curve correctly. Sampled piano would sound even flatter, just so you know

Well, if you bought into Pianoteq solely to get your hands on the best possible virtual acoustic pianos that today’s modeling technologies allow to be created, I can fully sympathize with the frustration that must come from having to witness all these electric pianos, the harp and the toy piano being rolled out, while the acoustic pianos themselves — still Pianoteq’s prime assets to many users — may appear to be somewhat neglected of late.
And the simple fact that you went through the trouble of voicing your concern, Matthew, means that you feel quite strongly about it, and as such, I don’t think it should be ignored or dismissed.
Besides, I also happen to agree with you that there still is quite a bit of room for improvement in several aspects of Pianoteq’s acoustic piano modeling.

But that’s as far as I go along with you, I’m afraid.

As Niclas says, it’s not because we haven’t seen anything new, or improved, on the acoustic piano front in recent months, that they’re being neglected.
The emulation, through modeling, of everything that makes up the timbre and sonic behaviour of acoustic pianos, is an incredibly complex affair — mainly because the sound of a piano is so chaotically complex to begin with, and today’s technologies still only allow for little more than a fairly blunt appromixation of that — and even the smallest step forwards will often require months of rigorous testing, trial and error, failure after failure and then, perhaps, a sudden breakthrough and a first hint of success. After which it is time to look at the next challenge, and the lengthy process begins all over again.
Only to say: you’re witnessing pioneering work here. And pioneering work is often excrutiatingly slow. Nature of the beast. There’s no precedent for what Modartt are doing and every inch of progress is, by definition, hard-won and the result of a lot of time-consuming effort. Be patient. And be grateful that someone is doing something that is worth being patient for.

Secondly, I would suggest you find comfort and optimism in the fact that Pianoteq exists and that it is as good as it is. I’m not saying this to make you accept its current state of imperfection, far from it, I’m saying this because Pianoteq’s very existence, its remarkable improvement over the years and its curent quality — even if still imperfect — should tell you that Modartt have the exact same dreams, expectations and desire as you have: getting as close as possible to the perfect emulation of an acoustic piano.
In other words: be sure — 100% sure (trust me on this) — that what you’re hearing, Modartt hears too. Be sure that what you’re dissatisfied with, also irks Modartt. Be sure, in short, that hardly a day goes by when they’re not giving it all they’ve got to overcome the many hurdles and obstacles which still stand between them and their goal.

Thirdly, you may not be aware of it, but you are in fact a co-developer of the Pianoteq pianosound. We all are. And I mean this in two senses. Firstly, our feedback matters, both the positive and, perhaps even more so, the negative. But in order for our feedback to be truly valuable, it seems to me that we have the responsibilty — and this is the second sense of what I mean by co-developership — to learn the software as thoroughly as possible, so as to be able to discover its true limitations. See, it is deeply wrong in my opinion to complain about slow progress, on the one hand, and at the same time make very little progress yourself in fully mastering the software. Finding fault with what you perceive as Modartt’s lack of commitment to improve their acoustic pianos, while at the same time putting in very little effort yourself to get to really know (and maybe even improve) what’s currently possible with the software, is not making your case any stronger either. Put simply, I don’t think you’re quite entitled to express dissatisfaction with, say, Pianoteq’s ‘dynamic flatness’ if you’re not even sure that you fully grasp and understand the dynamic potential of Pianoteq.

And finally, none of us should, I feel, presume to know best what Modartt should be doing. They’re not just developers running a business, they’re also artists: as curious, fickle, unpredictable and peculiarly determined as artists invariably are. The Hohner Collection, for example, isn’t just another commercial product in my opinion — although accountants may look at it like that —, it is, to me, a challenge taken on, and an artistic and creative battle fought. Perhaps not entirely victoriously, as some people may feel, but still: yet more proof (if any was still needed) that we’re in the presence of hugely fascinating developments here.
Moreover, all these developments go hand-in-hand and interact as well: the modeling of the harp may well have resulted in new insights in how to improve the pianos, the creation of the electric pianos may well have brought about new techniques in refining the core acoustic algorithms … In fact, I am fairly certain that the development of the harp, the toy piano and the Hohners may well have needed to be completed first in order for the next Pianoteq acoustic piano to be better than the last one was.

_

Yes, those are awesome tracks.   I think it's possible the interface is not as intuitive as it might be, so it's not always clear as how to get the most out of the various pianos.  I'm of the opinion that no one piano will ever be perfect, and each instrument must be tailored to the particular musical composition and associated playing style. As far as I'm concerned, Pianoteq is as good or actually better than anything else out there.  I recently briefly played Roland's $22,000.00 V-Grand at the piano store.  It took an eternity to boot up, l and I don't feel on my short try that it played any better than the Pianoteq driven by a Casio PX-150.  When you consider the overall price of my setup, there is nothing that comes close for the price.

I greatly sympathize with your feelings Matthew, as I also check the pianoteq website daily hoping for new pianos / new versions to be released.

I feel disappointment as well when the new instrument being released is not a piano, but I realize that others may be very excited about the non-piano instruments.

More importantly, the release times for piano specific instruments need to be put in perspective.  Despite the non-piano instrument releases, the piano related product releases are much more frequent compared with other major piano software.  For instance, Synthogy Ivory is still at version 2, which was released back in 2010.  To my best knowledge, there were no subsequent releases of East / West Quantumleap pianos or the Vienna Imperial piano.  So from this perspective, the 2 - 3 year product cycle is very fast indeed (did I just say 2 - 3 year is fast??)

I feel encouraged to hear from Niclas that a lot of work is going on behind the scenes, and this keeps my faith going.  I will be super-excited (and immediately purchase) any new pianos released by Pianoteq.  Meanwhile I am enjoying immensely the current version of pianoteq.

I think you guys may be too used to the web-development model where new features and redesigns are pushed out in a flurry.  One day you are using Gmail 2.0, the next day unannounced, Google forces you to use Gmail 3.0.  You preferred the old UI?  Tough luck for you.  You running into problems?  Well the product is beta (and has been for 17 years now) and thanks for doing QA for us.

Traditional software takes time to develop and release.  A 3 year cycle between major releases is about average for industry.  Hell, that's way better than what you see in the VST sector.  You should see the complaints about sampled VSTs where the company promised half-pedalling and never delivered in favor of of a different sampled piano still without half-pedalling.

Personally, I like having multiple pianos -- especially all the free instruments.  We're still a long way from perfect (whether modelled or sampled) and after a while, your ears easily pick up the imperfections.  To fix that, I switch to another model for a week -- and voila when I switch back to the D4, it feels fresh again!