Topic: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Since there have been no warnings, I'm assuming that Pianoteq will do fine in Windows 10. But has anyone here been beta testing Windows 10 and using Pianoteq? Any experiences or insights to share?

Last edited by Jake Johnson (29-07-2015 15:14)

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

If it works on W8, it will in 99.9% of cases work on W10.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

I've read that Microsoft is claiming that Windows 10 reduces audio latency and is generally better in handling sound. In terms of audio generally, as opposed to benefits in Pianoteq, PC World is saying that there is full support for FLAC files--in other words, any program should be able to use them: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2852595/...pport.html Kontakt libraries made with FLAC files? The very few samples in PianoTeq now in FLAC, reducing their size still further?

Of course, each program would require some recoding, but probably little recoding, if support is native in Windows 10. But maybe this is hoping for too much--MP3's are supported in Windows 10, but not in Kontakt and other programs...

EDIT: Or does Windows have to "translate" MP3's, so that native support of FLAC would be better than the current support for MP3's?

Last edited by Jake Johnson (29-07-2015 17:50)

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Sorry for the double post. More info on improvements in audio in Windows 10:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2015/07/...-big-deal/

Last edited by Jake Johnson (29-07-2015 17:57)

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

If Kontakt includes a FLAC decoder, I don't think it would be usefull to change this program to use the Windows 10 decoder... This would imply maintaining 2 versions : one for Windows 10 and an other for OS which doesn't include a FLAC decoder, and this won't bring any advantage.

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Kontakt doesn't use FLAC. MachFive 3 does, though. Kontakt has its own NCW lossless compression format, which is probably a variant of FLAC with some extra stuff added.


By the way, audio improvements are happening if you use WDM/WASAPI. ASIO is not governed by Microsoft (instead Steinberg governs it), so there's nothing MS can do about improving things with ASIO. That's Steinberg's task (things like aggregate devices, etc.).

So, this is good for laptops and devices with onboard audio chips - you'll get better latency figures using W10.


Also, native FLAC support doesn't mean anything to 3rd party programs. It just means that you can load FLAC and ALAC files in Windows' own media player without installing a 3rd party player or codecs.

Last edited by EvilDragon (29-07-2015 20:19)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Jake Johnson wrote:

More info on improvements in audio in Windows 10:

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2015/07/...-big-deal/

Here is a different view: https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=22443. Also, AFAIK, the new MIDI routines will not be ported backwards onto older versions of Windows.

Last edited by hyper.real (30-07-2015 20:58)

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Jake Johnson wrote:

Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Yes, here's what you should know: you're not stuck with windows just because everyone else is stuck with windows. Decent computer systems exist. For pianoteq, consider either investing in a Mac (a bit more expensive, but worth it) - or checking out different linux-based distributions, see if you can find one that you like, and that works well for audio/pianoteq/studio production. I personally recommend at least taking a look at ubuntu studio or kxstudio... or maybe a version of linux mint, if you want really user friendly. Take your pick in the desktop environment you like, if you want something similar to windows look and feel, try the KDE edition. Again, they're free, and trying them or using them costs nothing, contrary to some *ahem* "leading brand".....

Jake Johnson wrote:

Any experiences or insights to share?

In fact, yes. In the past 20-25 years, it's been a constant fact, and constant experience of pretty much everyone, that whenever dealing with microsoft in any kind of way, nobody wins except microsoft. Everyone else loses something. Money, freedom (as in free speech), freedom (as in free beer), or even your own dignity as a user of computer/electronic technology. See the thread http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic...33#p939133 for more info.

Just my $0.02.....

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Interesting diskussion....I have absolutely no experience with LINUX/based systems, but I happened to install a Linux MINT on an old laptop, which performs better playing video and sound then it did under windows.

So, now that we again are confronted with the changes in the microsoft world, can anybody tell me, if I really can use Pianoteq on a LINUX distribution ???

Greetings,

Geert

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

geert wrote:

Interesting diskussion....I have absolutely no experience with LINUX/based systems, but I happened to install a Linux MINT on an old laptop, which performs better playing video and sound then it did under windows.

So, now that we again are confronted with the changes in the microsoft world, can anybody tell me, if I really can use Pianoteq on a LINUX distribution ???

Of course! Why do you think a linux version of pianoteq is available?

Quick setup: just download it, decompress it to a directory of your choosing, and in that directory, locate and run the file named "Pianoteq 5". You can also install the VST by "symbolic-linking" (or copying, if you prefer) the VST .so file to your VST plugins directory - this way, pianoteq will be available in DAW's / plugin hosts.

It is also possible to copy all your presets etc. information from your windows partition, so if you have a lot of stuff, you don't need to start from scratch. I'd be happy to help in this process


The only thing is with pianoteq's "activation slots" - if you wish to activate pianoteq in linux on the same computer as w**dows, the best idea would probably be to contact Modartt's tech support so that they both use only one activation slot.

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Here is the Microsoft page describing each new feature for programmers. In the description of each feature, the blue name of each feature is a hotlink that goes to a page describing the components of each feature, including the MIDI commands, which seem to be the standard commands: https://dev.windows.com/en-us/getstarte...windows-10

The new MIDI things are under the Media category. Or for a quick look:  https://dev.windows.com/en-us/getstarte...s-10#media

Not sure if I understand, really. Windows 10 is simply embedding MIDI, almost as though you could send a MIDI command from the DOS prompt? Thus one can more easily create a program that sends and receives MIDI data? This is why latency is reduced? (Of course, the big news for many developers is that you can apparently develop a program once, and not have to worry about different versions for a tablet and a desktop, but I'm more concerned with seeing if anything new can be done.)

My hope is\was that having MIDI commands as part of the operating system would somehow allow me to skip the use of MIDI loopback programs--but I'm not, at first glance, seeing that as possible.


(About being stuck with Microsoft: Well, I am not a fan, but I teach, and the school uses Windows and Microsoft programs. Pretty much caught in the web.)

Last edited by Jake Johnson (30-07-2015 22:03)

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

I've installed Windows 10 on my desktop and Surface Pro so far and seems to be fine... slightly faster than Win 8.1, if anything...

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Hello  Delt,   

thankyou for your quick and complete answer about LINUX;  I was not aware, that there is a LINUX version available......!!

In he mean time, I am getting quite nervous about the upgrade from windows 7/8 to 10; I was trying it, but as at the moment nobody can guarantee, that my software keeps running, I cut it, and  I will wait some time, and perhaps this fear helps to make an change towards the MAC....??
I spent a lot of time installing and fine-tuning my organ-playing software ( HW), and do not like the idea, that everything must be done again.


greetings,

Geert

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Hello Feline 1, could you pls tell me, did you do a clean install, or upgrade??

And if it was an upgrade, was all of your software still working??  ( like the upgrade from 7 to 8, which was ok for me).

greetings,

Geert

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

geert wrote:

And if it was an upgrade, was all of your software still working??  ( like the upgrade from 7 to 8, which was ok for me).

In-place upgrade is very fast (about 30 minutes) and all your programs are left intact and they continue working the same as before.


Nobody forces you to upgrade, though. If your system is working fine as is, leave it as is.

Last edited by EvilDragon (30-07-2015 23:11)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

In-place Upgraded to Windows 10 from 8.1. Everything works just fine as before, never had any problems, Pianoteq 5, Cantabile, as well as my sample players Kontakt 5.5, UVI workstation, and my math program Mathematica 10.1.  I use an older Intel Q9450 quad core chip before the i3/5/7 line, with 16GB RAM (useful for samples) currently.

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

geert wrote:

Interesting diskussion....I have absolutely no experience with LINUX/based systems, but I happened to install a Linux MINT on an old laptop, which performs better playing video and sound then it did under windows.

So, now that we again are confronted with the changes in the microsoft world, can anybody tell me, if I really can use Pianoteq on a LINUX distribution ???

Greetings,

Geert

Linux Mint 17.2 (Mate Desktop) runs Pianoteq Standard very well on a on a Dell Inspiron 7000 Intel Core i5 (fith generation) with 6 gigs of RAM and the 1920 x 1080 screen.  I paid $500.00 for this large screen Ultra Book when it was on sale at Best Buy a few weeks ago.  Processor load never goes much above 25% when running Pianoteq.

The are several reasons I choose Linux over M$.

1.  Free, quick an easy to install.  Can do a full installation with all the software in under 15 minutes from USB stick while surfing the Net at the same time Linux and its programs are installing.

2. Relatively secure and virus free,

3.  User friendly fully configurable graphical desktop.

4.  Programs like Gimp, and Inkscape are essential for my hobbies.

5.  Pianoteq has a native installation that works right out of the box with no complications other than getting it registered which really isn't a Linux based problem.  Download Pianoteq, register, launch, plug in your Casio through USB and go.

Last edited by GRB (31-07-2015 14:39)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

There is an interesting article on the latency improvements of Windows 10 when using the WASAPI interface. It is on MSDN : https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/librar...s.85).aspx

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

EvilDragon wrote:

If it works on W8, it will in 99.9% of cases work on W10.

Should we take that to mean that one program per thousand will NOT work ?
or is it one line of code per thousand ?

Either way that would be downright SHODDY backward compatibility.

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

aandrmusic wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:

If it works on W8, it will in 99.9% of cases work on W10.

Should we take that to mean that one program per thousand will NOT work ?
or is it one line of code per thousand ?

Either way that would be downright SHODDY backward compatibility.

Biggest problem that is never fixed in WinDO$ is no built in Virus protection.  Secondly it takes hours and hours to install, and as far as I know, it can't run on a USB stick.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

GRB wrote:

Biggest problem that is never fixed in WinDO$ is no built in Virus protection.  Secondly it takes hours and hours to install, and as far as I know, it can't run on a USB stick.

Both things you're mentioning are untrue. Windows Defender takes care of viruses and more. Installing takes about 30 minutes ever since Windows 7, and you can install from a bootable USB stick, as well.

Also, Windows Enterprise edition CAN be ran from a USB stick.


Check your facts before posting.

aandrmusic wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:

If it works on W8, it will in 99.9% of cases work on W10.

Should we take that to mean that one program per thousand will NOT work ?
or is it one line of code per thousand ?

Either way that would be downright SHODDY backward compatibility.

No, in those 0.01% of cases compability mode generally solves the issue. Winodws is the best OS as far as backwards compatibility is concerned. OSX is miserable in comparison, for example. You can't run a 20 years old program on the latest OSX unless you create a virtual machine (and that's a workaround, not a solution).

Last edited by EvilDragon (01-08-2015 14:30)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

I'm not a WinDO$ expert, so my comments are simply based on my experience.  The new Dell Inspiron 7000 had a 1 Terabyte drive with an unbooted version of WinDO$ on it which I immediately removed and replaced with a 500 Gig SSD drive with Mint 17.2.  To be honest, I have zero interest in any product produced by M$.  My belief is that M$ set the entire computer industry back by 20 years.  You seem to be an M$ fanboy and that's fine, but some of us are not, and for very valid reasons.  If you like WinDO$, by all means use it.  I have just wasted so many miserable hours with it over the years, I do everything possible to avoid it.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

I'm not a "fanboy", I just use Windows long enough so I am familiar with it, and of course I am going to rectify wrong statements, just like you would likely rectify any wrong statements I could possibly make regarding Linux, etc. (but usually I would do my research before posting things and stating them as "facts".) And before you ask, I do have experience with OSX and Linux (Ubuntu and Debian), I just find Windows suits me far better than those other options, despite Linux being essentially free - it doesn't have some programs that I rely on, and I don't want to dick around with replacements that in a lot of cases aren't really as good as the real thing that's available for Windows (plus there's the added necessity/time involvent to learn a new program's idiosyncracies and coping with things that work in a very different way that you've gotten used to). Nor do I want to dick around with virtual machines, but that's just my personal gripe.

I can say that I didn't have lots of "miserable hours" with Windows when I started getting more serious about my computing. XP has always worked nicely for me, save for some driver-related BSODs. Updated drivers and all was fine thereafter! W7 was (and still is) an absolutely smooth experience without a single BSOD crash or freeze in 4 years that I have it, so I cannot be happier, really. It lets me do my work in a timely manner, it supports running 20+ years old programs (and some 10 years old VST plugins, for that matter!) I rely on without any issues. What's not to like? If nothing, that's 20 years of programs you can rely on - I would definitely not call that "setting things back 20 years", I would call that "preserving your 20 years of accomplishments". Setting things back statement is absolutely untrue, IMHO, and if you really stick by it, care to provide some more reasoning about why you think that to be the case?

Last edited by EvilDragon (01-08-2015 16:50)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

geert wrote:

Hello Feline 1, could you pls tell me, did you do a clean install, or upgrade??

And if it was an upgrade, was all of your software still working??  ( like the upgrade from 7 to 8, which was ok for me).

greetings,

Geert


Upgrade. 
Everything seems to still work. And creating a system image backup, which had been broken for me in Windows 8, now works again (as the new improved Disk Check utility was able to repair some bad clusters on my C:\ drive that CHKDSK \R had not picked up)

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

This might matter, to some people;
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/window...29727.html

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

FWIW, just upgraded an old Dell M4500 with an M-Audio Fast Track Ultra USB audio interface - Pianoteq is still working fine.

Greg.

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

EvilDragon wrote:

I would call that "preserving your 20 years of accomplishments". Setting things back statement is absolutely untrue, IMHO, and if you really stick by it, care to provide some more reasoning about why you think that to be the case?

More like preserving 20 years of an abusive monopoly.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

So, you're still not providing valid reasons for your opinion. Fine, then there's nothing left to discuss in decent manners about it. OK.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

EvilDragon wrote:

So, you're still not providing valid reasons for your opinion. Fine, then there's nothing left to discuss in decent manners about it. OK.

Exactly, It's called consumer choice; or said another way, the freedom to choose.  That's why Modartt is so good.  They offer freedom of choice.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

As a rule in the audio business... most studios stay about a year behind a new MS release.  We have learned, very painfully, the consequences of jumping in on a new system although 10 looks good... but so did 8 and we all know that took awhile to get drivers updated.  Once I put a system on a computer, I usually don't change it so I can always go back and find what I want.  As for Apple, my whole studio in the 80's and until 2003 was all Apple.  I was tempted earlier this year to Mac Pro but I couldn't afford 2 of them... so for less than half the price of a single Mac, I have two Toshibas with the same specs and they have been great on stage for Hauptwerk and PT...and, though I don't generally have a use for Touch Screens... it's the most convenient way to use Hauptwerk organs if you're trying to have a portable realistic pipe organ handy.

Last edited by wdco (03-08-2015 22:39)

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Not directly related to Pianoteq, but instead to specific keyboards that people may use with Pianoteq: Posts on the Motifator site are saying not to upgrade to Windows 10  until Yamaha releases drivers for the Motif series. (Presumably drivers for the software editor, but there could be other worries.)

http://www.motifator.com/index.php/foru...ad/475706/

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

GRB wrote:

My belief is that M$ set the entire computer industry back by 20 years.

[ ... ]

I have just wasted so many miserable hours with it over the years, I do everything possible to avoid it.

My. Thoughts. Exactly.

GRB wrote:

More like preserving 20 years of an abusive monopoly.

Also true, very true.

wdco wrote:

As a rule in the audio business... most studios stay about a year behind a new MS release.

How about, as a rule, avoiding MS releases altogether? Unlike Evil Dragon's M$ paradise, most users don't have a very pleasant experience with their deficient, backdoored, abusively marketed, virus-prone, and overall complete sh*t designed products. Like i said in another topic, when dealing with microsoft in any kind of way, no one wins except microsoft, and that's been a verified and verified again truth since the beginning of the 80's.

Oh, and if Unix systems suck so much at backwards compatibility, how come i can compile code for programs written 40 years ago on completely different machines, and run them perfectly on this machine?

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

delt wrote:

Oh, and if Unix systems suck so much at backwards compatibility, how come i can compile code for programs written 40 years ago on completely different machines, and run them perfectly on this machine?

Err, who said that? I didn't mention Unix in general, but just OSX - and its crappy planned obsolence scheme.

delt wrote:

Unlike Evil Dragon's M$ paradise, most users don't have a very pleasant experience...

Source for that statement? "Most users"? More like a huge overstatement without any kind of proof (or, better said, asspull argument, strawman). I see PLENTY of studios going about their business perfectly fine running either Windows or OSX and giving less than two $hits about Linux. Why? No software for it, lack of extremely low latency drivers for all kinds of pro audio interfaces (or, if there are some, they are a hack and not supported by audio interface manufacturer, like in case of RME, for example - and the reason is clear - doing a Linux driver implies open source, and audio interface vendors don't like that, they want to keep their trade secrets for themselves, which of course makes sense from competitive standpoint, but in turn that reflects in RME products having higher latency on Linux than what their native drivers can do on Win/OSX).

Is there ProTools, or Cubase, or Studio One, or Digital Performer, or any kind of PROPER full-blown studio DAW for Linux that isn't a hack in one way or another? Ardour? Was quite a mess the last time I checked it out, half of my plugins didn't work at all (that was several months ago). LOL. Bitwig? Also lacks in tons of features behind the rest.

Linux just isn't a good solution for pro audio music production. Sorry, but that's the truth. There are literally NO studios using it. If it were so much better than Win/OSX, I bet people would jump on it straight away. But there's no proper fully-featured DAW software for it (and running things in WINE isn't always peachy, and it does degrade performance some). And that's a fact.


By the way, Android, which is LINUX based, actually became worse than Windows as far as viruses and backdoors are concerned. How about them apples? It's all about the market cap - if there's a system that's used by a LOT of people, it IS going to be a bigger target for people who write malware, since it's more interesting to them. You can bet if Linux were the most widespread OS on the world, it would also have millions of viruses and malware written for it. That is a solid fact.

Last edited by EvilDragon (06-08-2015 11:40)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

EvilDragon wrote:

By the way, Android, which is LINUX based, actually became worse than Windows as far as viruses and backdoors are concerned. How about them apples?

I agree with you that Android is horrific in terms of personal privacy.  It's not because it's Linux based, but because Google ended up being more outrageous than Micro$oft.  Android phones don't even allow root privileges out of the box.  What I mean by this is that software is installed without the need for a root password.  Also the end user lost control of the the system.  Google itself seems to be an arm of the NSA.  I have an Android phone, but I hate Google.  If you have an Android phone you more or less are forced into a Gmail account.  I have rooted my phone and have taken every Google "service" off of it that is possible.  Unfortunately it won't run without some of them.  One bit of advice that I have for people is never sign-in to any Google service that requires a password.  Do your best to stop using Google at every turn of the road, because Google violates your privacy at every opportunity.  True Linux fanatics despise Google.

Last edited by GRB (07-08-2015 16:05)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

EvilDragon wrote:
delt wrote:

Oh, and if Unix systems suck so much at backwards compatibility, how come i can compile code for programs written 40 years ago on completely different machines, and run them perfectly on this machine?

Err, who said that? I didn't mention Unix in general, but just OSX - and its crappy planned obsolence scheme.

You said, or at least strongly hinted, that m$ was the only platform that had decent backward compatibility.

EvilDragon wrote:

Source for that statement? "Most users"? More like a huge overstatement without any kind of proof (or, better said, asspull argument, strawman). I see PLENTY of studios going about their business perfectly fine running either Windows or OSX and giving less than two $hits about Linux.

"Most users" as in at least almost everyone i personally know who uses or has used m$ products.

As for studios, most studios use OSX, those that are stuck with m$ is because Apple stuff is too expensive. And yeah it's true that there's a lot less audio software for Linux, sadly - mostly for the reasons you said. Which is a shame, because there are very solid systems based on the GNU + Linux core.

Even thouh my personal preference, for my usage, is still Linux based systems, and has been for 20 years, if someone who's computer-illiterate asks me what to get, i always say "get a mac". Worth the extra money. As for m$ users who ask me for their assistance, i got sick and tired of futzing around for hours in windoze-land to do my best to help them, then on top of it all, getting blamed for when it f.cks up again. So, no more please.

And about android, GRB pretty much nailed it right on the head.

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

delt wrote:

As for studios, most studios use OSX

In US, perhaps, over here in Europe there are a LOT of Windows+Cubase studios around. Especially here in central Europe.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

delt wrote:

. . . if someone who's computer-illiterate asks me what to get, i always say "get a mac". Worth the extra money. As for m$ users who ask me for their assistance, i got sick and tired of futzing around for hours in windoze-land to do my best to help them, then on top of it all, getting blamed for when it f.cks up again. So, no more please.

I have used Linux for so long without any need to use WinDO$ that I really can't offer help to anyone stuck with the pathetic "system."  I find the WinDO$ user interface to be very confusing, and it can hardly be characterized as "user-friendly."   M$ set the computer industry back by 20 years because they  did every thing possible to make sure that their offerings don't work with anything else.  Any time a computer hardware manufacturer attempts to  deliver a computer with Linux pre-installed, the M$ goon squad jumps on them like a pack rabid dogs.

Here's a little factoid:
In Denver, Colorado, at the Cherry Creek Mall there is an Apple store on the second level of the mall.  It's flooded with customers and has a large sales force.  It can take up to three hours to be able to talk to a salesperson because the store is so popular, not because there is a shortage of store personnel.  In contrast, M$ operates a small Kiosk down on the lower level with a few of their somewhat weird and seemingly overpriced Surface tablets on display.  They have two or three extremely geeky looking sales persons who wear Green T-shirts and pounce on you like Krishnas on an airport traveller.  Compared to the Apple store which has 100's of customers in the store from the minute it opens in the morning,  the diminutive  M$ kiosk looks like a desolate outpost of some "As Seen on TV" operation selling an odd looking device.  In contrast the Apple store has many extremely attractive products which are elegantly displayed, and the expansive store is alive and a buzz with excitement.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/m...p1_200.JPG

http://core0.staticworld.net/images/art...-large.jpg

Last edited by GRB (07-08-2015 17:07)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

GRB wrote:

M$ set the computer industry back by 20 years because they  did every thing possible to make sure that their offerings don't work with anything else.  Any time a computer hardware manufacturer attempts to  deliver a computer with Linux pre-installed, the M$ goon squad jumps on them like a pack rabid dogs.

Yeah, "compatibility" became a marketing buzzword which microsoft pushed without telling anyone that. They've always seemed to purposely go out of their way to create completely closed standards, formats, filesystems, etc etc. that no one else is able to work with, and have no other purpose. Remember the "software modems" aka "winmodems" from the 90's, and similar expressly, purposely "windows only" hardware which companies and computer stores were practically held at gun point to sell, under threats like "your stuff won't be supported and/or explicitly blocked out in the next windows, making you go bankrupt" and such?

Here's a little factoid:
In Denver, Colorado, at the Cherry Creek Mall there is an Apple store on the second level of the mall.  It's flooded with customers and has a large sales force.  It can take up to three hours to be able to talk to a salesperson because the store is so popular, not because there is a shortage of store personnel.  In contrast, M$ operates a small Kiosk down on the lower level with a few of their somewhat weird and seemingly overpriced Surface tablets on display.  They have two or three extremely geeky looking sales persons who wear Green T-shirts and pounce on you like Krishnas on an airport traveller.  Compared to the Apple store which has 100's of customers in the store from the minute it opens in the morning,  the diminutive  M$ kiosk looks like a desolate outpost of some "As Seen on TV" operation selling an odd looking device.  In contrast the Apple store has many extremely attractive products which are elegantly displayed, and the expansive store is alive and a buzz with excitement.

haha well, everyone is stuck with microsoft because everyone else is stuck with microsoft. I really see no other reason anyone would use their ...products. Their slogan really should be "Designed to sell, not to work".

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

delt wrote:

haha well, everyone is stuck with microsoft because everyone else is stuck with microsoft. I really see no other reason anyone would use their ...products. Their slogan really should be "Designed to sell, not to work".

Be careful, it's "verboten" to say anything derogatory about the world's "am beliebtesten" OSS.  "Sie sind verpflichtet, es zu benutzen!"  An OSS includes the use of propaganda, subversion, and post-war planning.

Last edited by GRB (08-08-2015 13:13)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

This started all about moving to Win 10....

I had to go back to 7, because the Roland UM 880 Midi interface that I use, its win 7 or win 8 driver does not work in 10.

Well, in the mean time I read, that I could probably use the Windows native driver, although with slightly less performance.
Well, there is really no hurry needed, and who knows, that Roland might come out with a driver for this very old but strongly beloved Midi interface.

So my advice is, to test all your hardware after migration.

Greetings,

Geert

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Slightly off-topic, but... a little glimpse at pre-Unix computing history, told by someone who worked at Bell Labs and MIT, around the same time as Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson wrote the first draft of the original Unix system --

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFK6RG47bww

Totally worth a few minutes of your time, at least for a brief look into the history of what you're using at this very moment. This was way before some worthless piece of sh.t company called "microsoft" barged in and eventually caused so much irreversible damage to the whole world of computing.

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Also GRB, you replied to my earlier post, but dind't tell me your ideas about this little "factoid" --

delt wrote:

Yeah, "compatibility" became a marketing buzzword which microsoft pushed without telling anyone that. They've always seemed to purposely go out of their way to create completely closed standards, formats, filesystems, etc etc. that no one else is able to work with, and have no other purpose. Remember the "software modems" aka "winmodems" from the 90's, and similar expressly, purposely "windows only" hardware which companies and computer stores were practically held at gun point to sell, under threats like "your stuff won't be supported and/or explicitly blocked out in the next windows, making you go bankrupt" and such?

http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

delt wrote:

Also GRB, you replied to my earlier post, but dind't tell me your ideas about this little "factoid" --

delt wrote:

Yeah, "compatibility" became a marketing buzzword which microsoft pushed without telling anyone that. They've always seemed to purposely go out of their way to create completely closed standards, formats, filesystems, etc etc. that no one else is able to work with, and have no other purpose. Remember the "software modems" aka "winmodems" from the 90's, and similar expressly, purposely "windows only" hardware which companies and computer stores were practically held at gun point to sell, under threats like "your stuff won't be supported and/or explicitly blocked out in the next windows, making you go bankrupt" and such?

Since you asked, system integration is what is ruining Google too.  In fact the Linux Action Show reported that Google is giving it up.  System integration for M$ meant that it was extremely easy for viruses to infect everyone's system.  I guess you could correlate it somewhat to the environment of  a "Gay" bathhouse, where proliferation takes presidence over discrimination.  Speaking of M$, there are many pathways to fatal infection. when protective measures are only applied after the intrusion, not prior to the entrance of a Trojan.  The end result is always the same: a slow painful progression deep into the realm of total inoperability and complete dysfunctionality.  The final coups de grace is complete boot failure.  Usually the end user ops for an entirely new computer rather than plunking more money into a seemingly certain lost cause.  There is always the hope that the next iteration will somehow be better than the last, but unfortunately bad habits are hard to abstain and the ugly sequence repeats itself.  The only real difference is the higher version number, but changing the name of a disease does not change the progression of the infection.  I hear that Bill and Melinda Gates are actually closet Apple users, and extremely fond of the forbidden fruit.  All this said, it is conjectured that Jesus would have been a Linux user for egalitarian reasons.  All the great religions of the world abhor usury.  I conclude by saying Bill Gates is probably the greatest sinner that ever inhabited God's Kingdom.  No one ever took more pleasure and profits from the dispersion and dissemination of a highly sinister evil.

Last edited by GRB (11-08-2015 03:21)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

These tirades are becoming extremely tiring and off-topic. Do you see other Windows users going into all the Linux threads here bashing Linux? No. Why can't you guys do the same and be tolerant?


So, back to W10 and people that are interested in it. There are other threads here if you want to talk Linux.

Last edited by EvilDragon (11-08-2015 06:30)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Ok, can't stand to not joining this OS discussion. There are lots of situations that depend on even much more other situations and condition which make people make choices. Same here there is no such thing as the only universally best OS for everyone. One of the main "conditions & situations" that I can think of to be considered are the money, user experience, compatibility, upgradability, economy, aesthetics, habits, etc... which all interfered with each other. Say, I want to play GTA 5 and play with sounds in Ableton on a same computer, so do I really have choices?! Being a tech person I was always about Windows and right now I can't see it to be changed in the near future. Though it will always depend on "conditions & situations".

p.s.: and speaking about Windows are you really sure it is not a kind of a "free to pay" business for let's humbly say, some people? Or we prefer to keep it away from our arguments?

Last edited by AKM (11-08-2015 12:46)

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

AKM wrote:

Ok, can't stand to not joining this OS discussion. There are lots of situations that depend on even much more other situations and condition which make people make choices. Same here there is no such thing as the only universally best OS for everyone. One of the main "conditions & situations" that I can think of to be considered are the money, user experience, compatibility, upgradability, economy, aesthetics, habits, etc... which all interfered with each other. Say, I want to play GTA 5 and play with sounds in Ableton on a same computer, so do I really have choices?! Being a tech person I was always about Windows and right now I can't see it to be changed in the near future. Though it will always depend on "conditions & situations".

You make good points.  WinDO$ is unquestionably the best gaming platform.  To help you a bit with your English, I think I would say:  which all interact with each other.  Also:  I can't see the need  to change  in the near future.  But to address your points, coming from the Mac environment, I always found WinDO$ clumsy and extremely buggy, not to mention that the interface is confusing.  Macs were always much smoother.  On the other hand Apple hardware has always been over priced and ever changing.  Linux appealed to me because it was free, robust, and was secure.  Over time, Linux matured, and I find that it has much more clarity than WinDO$.  As for Apple,  I don't think they are as user friendly as Appleholics claim.  For one thing just like WinDO$ they lack interoperability with outside systems.  Yes if every thing you own is Apple, they are good, but they can also be frustrating too.   Most people don't realize how much effort has been put into making Linux actually very user friendly.  It's still not as good a gaming platform as WinDO$, but I would have to say it's possible that it is actually more user friendly than Apple products which live in a walled garden.  One thing is certain, Linux is more friendly to your wallet.

Last edited by GRB (11-08-2015 13:08)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

GRB wrote:

To help you a bit with your English, I think I would say:  which all interact with each other.  Also:  I can't see the need  to change  in the near future.

Thank you. And, just two corrections? I can be proud, was pretty sure there is much much more to correct :D

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

AKM wrote:
GRB wrote:

To help you a bit with your English, I think I would say:  which all interact with each other.  Also:  I can't see the need  to change  in the near future.

Thank you. And, just two corrections? I can be proud, was pretty sure there is much much more to correct

I think your English usage is very good on the whole.  You express yourself well.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

Yeah I don't have any problems understanding you, AKM.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Windows 10? Anything we should know?

GRB wrote:

WinDO$ is unquestionably the best gaming platform.

The only reason for that is that there's more games for it. In my experience, games that do get released for Linux, compared to the windows version, run better, more stable, have overall slightly better performance (at least with nvidia cards, which i've been using for like 15 years) ...and especially with *much* less hassle, than on windows. Like in any good system, just extract/copy to a directory and run it. No clutzy install-shield, system registry keys, direct-x, or any m$ junk like that. (though it's true that in general, steam do add some complications of their own... the whole thing stinking of the same hideous egocentric, corporate money-making, "f.ck everything, we own you" stench as m$ ...but to a much lesser extent.)

Last edited by delt (12-08-2015 06:06)
http://soundcloud.com/delt01
Pianoteq 5 STD+blüthner, Renoise 3 • Roland FP-4F + M-Audio Keystation 88es
Intel i5@3.4GHz, 16GB • Linux Mint xfce 64bit