Topic: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

Hi.
I am using Pianoteq 5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1.
Simple question:
in a huge score there are 2 instruments I could use Pianoteq for: Solo Piano, and Vibraphone.
Can I apply 2 instances of Pianoteq, one of them for the solo piano (which in my current version sounds magnificient), and the other one for the vibraphone?
In that case, I could have changing presets for the vibraphone, one with "motor on", and change the motor speed by MIDI commands routed through Sibelius, and the other one without. The point being, that in Sibelius I can have only one MIDI command in the playback directory at a time.
If the described configuration is practicable, I would buy the vibraphone by pianoteq - but it should really work.
Thaniks for updating me.

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

I suppose each of the two instances could go to their own channels, so basically you'd be loading Pianoteq twice, but loading a different sound in each instance.

You can also setup MIDI Program Change messages so that they are assigned to particular patches you want to use.

Last edited by EvilDragon (20-12-2014 18:35)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

EvilDragon wrote:

I suppose each of the two instances could go to their own channels, so basically you'd be loading Pianoteq twice, but loading a different sound in each instance.

You can also setup MIDI Program Change messages so that they are assigned to particular patches you want to use.

Thanks for your reply,
I shall really try it out. I am curious enough ;-)
The result will be posted here. - - - :

It does NOT work. When I select the vibraphone track in the mixer of Sibelius, and assign the vibraphone in the Pianoteq VST, also the piano comes out as vibraphone. I cannot say, channel 1 sounds in pianoteq like Concert Grand Piano, and channel 2 sound like Vibraphone. There mus be a was to create the second instance...
Another thing is that I did not find yout how to assign Midi Controllers to the tremolo effects (slow, medium, fast tremolo).

However, the vibes sound great, both of them. It would be a pity not to be able to use both pianoteq instrument sets in one musical score.

Last edited by MadMusicologist (21-12-2014 06:51)

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

It might be a good time to whip out the Sibelius manual and see how it deals with VST instances.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

EvilDragon wrote:

It might be a good time to whip out the Sibelius manual and see how it deals with VST instances.

U redu ;-)
I found out by trying, as so often.
In Sibelius' playback config I can activate Pianotec VST twice. So I can assign Pianoteq to the Concert Grand, and Pianoteq (2) to the vibes. Really cool.
Now I will have to see how to control the vibration effect presets: None, slow, medium, fast. Apparently, the manual has instructions for effects like "Wah", but not for "Tremolo". Any hint, please?`
Hvala ljiepa.

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

You can simply MIDI learn the tremolo rate slider to a MIDI CC, then send a CC message from a particular point in the score?

Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

In the vibraphone however the vibrato rate and depth are usually fixed and you activate them by stepping on the pedal.

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

EvilDragon wrote:

You can simply MIDI learn the tremolo rate slider to a MIDI CC, then send a CC message from a particular point in the score?

Hi, I noticed that option but I do not seem to understand. By "learn" you think of assigning a MIDI controller to initialize a preset? How can I do this, please? I did not find out.

(to learn = učiti, to teach = poučiti, to assign = dodijeliti, please excuse me for this excursion ;-))

Last edited by MadMusicologist (21-12-2014 12:17)

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

Chopin87 wrote:

In the vibraphone however the vibrato rate and depth are usually fixed and you activate them by stepping on the pedal.

Thanks for your reply, I tried out, but no pedal seems to be connected with the effect "vibrato". I tried out all 4 of them. What did I overlook, please?

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

I think Chopin87 is talking about an actual, real-life vibraphone.


Anyways, right-click the tremolo rate slider, you have a MIDI dropdown there, then "Assign MIDI event". Then send the relevant MIDI event that is going to control this slider. Usually a MIDI CC, but it can be almost anything.


Also check out Options->MIDI section.

Last edited by EvilDragon (21-12-2014 13:35)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

Anyways, right-click the tremolo rate slider, you have a MIDI dropdown there, then "Assign MIDI event". Then send the relevant MIDI event that is going to control this slider. Usually a MIDI CC, but it can be almost anything.

Also check out Options->MIDI section.

Thanks,
that's just the thing that puzzles me.
I see that dropdown, and the "assign MIDI event", but HOW do I go on then?
I wish I could insert the screenshot of how far I get.
The message says, "move the MIDI controller that you want to assign..." What is the next step?
If I click into the effect display, the message just disappears without any effect. Where do I see the MIDI controller, please? The manual doesn't give me any hint about this.

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

move the MIDI controller that you want to assign = put your foot on the pedal... ;-)

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

Luc Henrion wrote:

move the MIDI controller that you want to assign = put your foot on the pedal... ;-)

Which pedal, please? I am working on PC, and the issue is "vibrato", and not "sustain".

That's exactly where we were earlier on:

Chopin87 wrote:

In the vibraphone however the vibrato rate and depth are usually fixed and you activate them by stepping on the pedal.

Thanks for your reply, I tried out, but no pedal seems to be connected with the effect "vibrato". I tried out all 4 of them. What did I overlook, please?

EvilDragon wrote:

I think Chopin87 is talking about an actual, real-life vibraphone.

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

EvilDragon was right I was actually talking about how a real vibraphone works.
You need a midi controller (a pedal, knob on a master keyboard) to send the CC data you want to automate. If you want to automate a parameter using "only" a notation program (I know something about Finale not Sibelius but it should be the same) you have to create an articulation that is able to send a specific CC value.
Then in Pianoteq ---> Options -----> Midi, click on "insert".
You have two empty boxes: in the first one you choose the Control Change (the number of which is the same of the CC value you selected in your DAW). This is going to be the switch that activates the articulation;
On the second one you choose the Parameter you want to automate. For example if you have Tremolo as the first FX in the Effects chain and you want to automate "Rate", you choose Effect 1 Param 1 and set the range.
In the end Save the Midi Mapping for your Vibraphone so you can set it up easily.
Hope this helps, it is much easier to do than to explain it, believe me!

I have a preset I made for example where the sustain pedal (CC64) triggers sustain and tremolo rate using this midi mapping I suggested you and the vibes are mutes. It seems much closer to the original for me.

Last edited by Chopin87 (21-12-2014 20:02)
"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

Chopin87 wrote:

You need a midi controller (a pedal, knob on a master keyboard) to send the CC data you want to automate. If you want to automate a parameter using "only" a notation program (I know something about Finale not Sibelius but it should be the same) you have to create an articulation that is able to send a specific CC value.

In Sibelius, there is the option of inserting MIDI mcontrol messages directly (category "technical text"), that should not be any problem. Standards, such as "pedal" work with plain text, but it must be inserted after chosing "technical text".

Chopin87 wrote:

Then in Pianoteq ---> Options -----> Midi, click on "insert".
You have two empty boxes: in the first one you choose the Control Change (the number of which is the same of the CC value you selected in your DAW). This is going to be the switch that activates the articulation;
On the second one you choose the Parameter you want to automate. For example if you have Tremolo as the first FX in the Effects chain and you want to automate "Rate", you choose Effect 1 Param 1 and set the range.
In the end Save the Midi Mapping for your Vibraphone so you can set it up easily.
Hope this helps, it is much easier to do than to explain it, believe me!

I believe you, but for today I am too tired and lacking concentration. :-\ Tomorrow, or so.

Chopin87 wrote:

I have a preset I made for example where the sustain pedal (CC64) triggers sustain and tremolo rate using this midi mapping I suggested you and the vibes are mutes. It seems much closer to the original for me.

A pity we cannot attach any files in this forum, just plain text. At least a screenshot would have been excellent.
Well, I will have a look around if it is possible in this forum to send personal messages, and maybe there we could attach small files.
No: this is not possible. Messages yes, attachments: no.

Last edited by MadMusicologist (21-12-2014 22:25)

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

You can use 3rd party hosting sites, like www.imgur.com for images, or Dropbox or Google Drive for other kinds of files...

Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

EvilDragon wrote:

You can use 3rd party hosting sites, like www.imgur.com for images, or Dropbox or Google Drive for other kinds of files...

But here in this site? How to apply that here? Placing links?

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

This is the preset I created.

Vibes.zip

There is the Midi mapping I described and the fxp of the instrument. Place them in the Pianoteq  preset folder (in Windows is usually inside AppData). Select the midi mapping through the Options ---> Midi then select this fxp.
It should be a good starting point for creating your own. That's the best I can do.

"And live to be the show and gaze o' the time."  (William Shakespeare)

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

Thanks a lot, Maestro;-)!
Tonight I shall check this and tell you if it worked.

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

as it happens:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0LM1K...sp=sharing
An excerpt of the current set of MIDI controllers from the official MIDI manufacturer's page
http://www.midi.org/index.php

Last edited by MadMusicologist (24-12-2014 06:21)

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

Chopin87 wrote:

This is the preset I created.

Vibes.zip

There is the Midi mapping I described and the fxp of the instrument. Place them in the Pianoteq  preset folder (in Windows is usually inside AppData). Select the midi mapping through the Options ---> Midi then select this fxp.
It should be a good starting point for creating your own. That's the best I can do.

Sorry, it took me very much longer to try out, but with no result.
I saved your intoAppData\roaming\Modartt\Pianoteq\Midimappings. Because, yours is a .ptm file, and in the presets there are only .fxp or .mfxp files. Anyway, I could not find your preset when opening the instrument through options. I think I will give up concerning tremolo rate. Everything should be possible, the MIDI specifications (Controllers) show it, but then I'd need to have more options in the instrument's dialogue.
This is what I'd like to do:
Pianoteq 5.1.3 Options: MIDI, insert MIDI mapping Controller 76 / "action that is triggered by MIDI event": instead of choosing from the menu "Effect 1 Param. 7" (which should be "rate"), I should be able to directly set a value for the vibrato rate.
Presently, Pianoteq vibes do not react to any of the commands that Sibelius sends, except for "pedal on", and "pedal off".
Anyway, I shall see if I find another idea how to controll that. Otherwise my expenses on the Vibraphone sounds are a "giveaway".

Have nice holidays.

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

Merry Christmas, my friends!
Finally I made it going: Vibraphone with different vibrato speeds in Sibelius 7.5 with the Instrument "Pianoteq Vibraphone V-M".
This description is of course specialised to users who use Pianoteq as VST plug in with Sibelius notation software.
How I do this, having installed the instrument with the VST .dll being added to the AVID VST-plugins folder:
1.) in Sib, "preferred sounds", choose vor vibraphone the Pianoteq instrument.
2.) in the mixer, click the symbol * to open the Pianoteq plugin. In the instrument, select "Vibraphone V-M tremo".
3.) In the instrument, click "effects", there, click "Tremolo", there, activate the lower controller "mono" ("lamp" lights green).
4.) Save as personal setting to be active everytime the instrument is launched.
5.) In Sibelius playback dictionary, create new "Line texts":
a) vib fast
b) vib medium
c) vib slow
d) vib very slow
e) vib zero
6.) assign those texts to "Control change" as follows:
a) Controller 76, controller value: 60
b) Controller 76, controller value: 48
c) Controller 76, controller value: 39
d) Controller 76, controller value: 35
e) Controller 76, controller value: 0
Please note that looking up the vibrato settings in the pianoteq instrument, you will see that the piano speed varies from 0 Hz to 100 Hz, so full tremolo speed (controller value: 127) will result in a VERY special modulation effect.
You are free to try out changing the vibrato intensity control, since the default setting is quite moderate and might get lost in a huge orchestra sound.
Anyone pursuing the same effect might be invited to try it out - you must be sure you need it because you'd have to buy at Pianoteq - and return to this entry if more questions arise. Just in case I forgot to mention any important step.

Last edited by MadMusicologist (25-12-2014 07:32)

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

Of course, you mean tremolo, not vibrato, right? Tremolo is fluctuation of amplitude, vibrato is fluctuation of pitch. Vibraphones can only do the former.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq5.1 as VST instrument in Sibelius 7.5.1

Of course you are right, I have been mixing up things.
Maybe I should have been talking of "Amplitude modulation" always.