Topic: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

In many ways, I love my Casio Privia PX-150.  Light weight, easy to carry.  Affordable price point.  Decent sound.  Built in speakers, Playable action.  All that said,  I would love to have the same instrument with the beauty and versatility of the Pianoteq 5.  I don't want to add a computer, cables, and external amplifier.  Has anyone heard of or attempted to put a small PC board into and use the existing internal amplifier and speakers?  A display screen of some sort is another issue.  I would love to have the Casio piano with the full versatility of the Pianoteq sound without more equipment to lug around, or to set up.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

A pity it is not a PX-350. That one seems to have line-in connectors, so you could just connect a tablet to USB and line-in and be done (although laptop and tablet hardware often have rather mediocre sound devices, it would have been be worth a try).

Of course, it might just be that the 150 and 350 have in fact the same circuit board; in this case it might be possible to retrofit a line-in option.

Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

I doubt the 350 and 150 have the same circuit boards.  As I understand it, the 350 has many more voices and most likely has a different top panel case to accommodate the extra buttons.  Perhaps if one were to do it, about the only components used form the Casio would be the key action, speakers,, and bottom of the original case.  I rather imagine there are small amplifiers that could fit inside and make use of the original speakers.

Last edited by GRB (22-10-2014 19:49)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

It wouldn't be that hard to simply snip the internal speaker wires and solder a new connection to line in jacks.  Then the other end of the sound output wires attach to line out RCAs ... plug in together for internal sound, unplug to leave available for outside sources.

For the computer part, go for a NUC + VESA mount.  If you're willing to open up a PX150 to snip the wires, you can easily drill a hole into the bottom to attach the VESA mount.

To reduce wires, go for a USB --> A/C adapter power converter.  That way you can power the PX150 off the NUC's USB port.

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

+1 on the NUC route.

I saw another small PC yesterday that may also be worth considering:

http://liliputing.com/2014/10/zotacs-ti...e-200.html

Is the CPU powerful enough for Pianoteq, though?

Cheers,
James
x

My mind says Kawai, but my heart says Nord.

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Looks as though that palm-sized computer runs at 1.33 GHz, so I don't think it would do for Pianoteq. But it's getting close.

Merging a Windows tablet with a keyboard seems like a good idea, however. Ideally, it might be best to find a way to enbed the tablet into the top of the keyboard. On the other hand, the simpler route of just attaching the tablet to the music stand, assuming that a music stand is included or could be inserted, might be best--that arrangement would let you see the interface better.

Better still would be a way to have the tablet lie flat on the keyboard, and then be propped up when needed? A Microsoft Surface would work here, but that raises the price, since one of the upper-end Surfaces would be needed for Pianoteq.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (26-10-2014 15:30)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Take a look at posts in this forum from "jarosujo".  He used a small (palm-sized) Intel computer to run Pianoteq, and was quite successful.

Fitting that computer inside the PX-150 case?  Not so easy!

.           Charles

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

cpcohen wrote:

Take a look at posts in this forum from "jarosujo".  He used a small (palm-sized) Intel computer to run Pianoteq, and was quite successful.

Fitting that computer inside the PX-150 case?  Not so easy!

.           Charles

Well, I must admit that I have a fear of Linux, partly because of the many versions, and partly because I'm not sure that other programs would always run on it. But I could see using it, perhaps, for a system devoted to just Pianoteq. I hae some worries, there, however--can Linux be assumed to work with any sound card? Is there really no loss of realism when using a low GHz system--are some calculations skipped or simplified? Would anything recorded using the Standalone version have to be transferred to a full-blown cpu to add it to a mix, or can one of those small systems also run Cubase, while a vocal, say, is also being recorded? And generally I would just worry about unexpected complications.

On the PianoWorld forum, in a similar thread about using a small Linux based system for Pianoteq, someone posted an interesting idea--that Modarrt configure and sell small systems such as this, with Pianoteq installed.  Might be better still if a good external sound card was added, its specs and compatability with Linux pretested. Basically, plug-and-play.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (26-10-2014 15:46)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

It would find it challenging to embed a Thin Mini-ITX Board like Q1900TM-ITX:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Q1900TM-ITX/

Inexpensive, passive cooled and it should be compatible with Linux Audio.

cheers

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

I am by no means a tecchie, far from it, but who knows where digital piano technology will go to..maybe one day there will be a model that has a mini computer in it to run piano tech!

I have a netbook and a laptop, so it is not much of a bother for me to leave my netbook set up for pianoteq and a digital piano.

I don't use the netbook as much as the laptop.

Last edited by EdwardianPiano (01-11-2014 23:25)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

I had this idea some time ago and never acted on it, a pianoteq pedal board …

Put a mac-mini-size computer plus sound card (with midi) into a box with three piano pedals built into the side. Make it look nice. Make it heavy enough to not slide around. Control the computer from an iphone/ipad/ipod.

You'd put it wherever you put your pedals now.

It would take USB or MIDI from the keyboard and send pianoteq's sound using your choice of xlr or balanced 1/4" to your mixer.

You could do this now with available and even used parts except maybe finding a usb or midi pedal unit.

Last edited by doug (02-11-2014 02:54)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

doug wrote:

Put a mac-mini-size computer plus sound card (with midi) into a box with three piano pedals built into the side.

Hehe, nice idea!
But I would worry about the vibrations (electronic parts/solderings/microfony).

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Mossy wrote:

It wouldn't be that hard to simply snip the internal speaker wires and solder a new connection to line in jacks.  Then the other end of the sound output wires attach to line out RCAs ... plug in together for internal sound, unplug to leave available for outside sources.

For the computer part, go for a NUC + VESA mount.  If you're willing to open up a PX150 to snip the wires, you can easily drill a hole into the bottom to attach the VESA mount.

To reduce wires, go for a USB --> A/C adapter power converter.  That way you can power the PX150 off the NUC's USB port.

Guys,
Ok
But how do you control Pianoteq? I assume you need at least a monitor and a mouse+keyboard...
So why not a simple laptop?

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Why re-invent the wheel?  What you are looking for is here:

http://tinyurl.com/m8smbuy

Pianoteq is included

Ian

Last edited by Beemer (02-11-2014 15:12)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Beemer wrote:

Why re-invent the wheel?  What you are looking for is here:

http://tinyurl.com/m8smbuy

Pianoteq is included

Ian

I read the link so, that Pianoteq 5 Stage is bundled as Software with the first 3000 units shipped and a separate PC/Laptop is needed. Isn't it?

Last edited by groovy (02-11-2014 15:28)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

groovy wrote:
Beemer wrote:

Why re-invent the wheel?  What you are looking for is here:

http://tinyurl.com/m8smbuy

Pianoteq is included

Ian

I read the link so, that Pianoteq 5 Stage is bundled as Software with the first 3000 units shipped and a separate PC/Laptop is needed. Isn't it?

Oh dear!  I have just downloaded and read the manual and you are correct.  Sorry to have jumped the gun.

I'm certain that before too long some company will produce a keyboard with built-in PC/MAC

Ian

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Beemer wrote:

I'm certain that before too long some company will produce a keyboard with built-in PC/MAC

Actually, I doubt that. A MIDI controller combined with a notebook or tablet is a much more flexible and powerful combination, and I would just go with that. There's already plenty of controllers to choose from and plenty of laptops or Win8 tablets to choose from. I doubt there's a market for controllers with an embedded PC (those are not very powerful and almost immediately 'obsolete').

Last edited by kalessin (03-11-2014 09:50)
Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Beemer wrote:

Why re-invent the wheel?  What you are looking for is here:

http://tinyurl.com/m8smbuy

Pianoteq is included

Ian

Looking at it briefly,  it does not seem to have built in sound amplification so it would need an aditional amplifier which is just more equipment to carry around.  To me the Casio PX-150 comes closest to what I want, but alas the voice is clearly not as good as Pianoteq's.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

kalessin wrote:
Beemer wrote:

I'm certain that before too long some company will produce a keyboard with built-in PC/MAC

Actually, I doubt that. A MIDI controller combined with a notebook or tablet is a much more flexible and powerful combination, and I would just go with that. There's already plenty of controllers to choose from and plenty of laptops or Win8 tablets to choose from. I doubt there's a market for controllers with an embedded PC (those are not very powerful and almost immediately 'obsolete').

I agree, but I wish that someone would develop an 88 key controller with some kind of slot for a notebook, an open space in the back, in the middle, where one could slide a notebook. Would simply look better, would let the screen be facing the user, and alleviate worries about the notebook sliding off the keyboard.

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

I agree, but I wish that someone would develop an 88 key controller with some kind of slot for a notebook, an open space in the back, in the middle, where one could slide a notebook. Would simply look better, would let the screen be facing the user, and alleviate worries about the notebook sliding off the keyboard.

I agree totally.  A good sized tablet could contain all the printed music,  control MIDI files, along with the voice settings of the keyboard as well.  I wish Samsung, CASIO, and Pinoteq would team up.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

This is when we need EvilDragon to step in with a mock-up.

I can imagine it working two ways. Both would include a place to house an external sound card. Both would let the player attach something to the back of the open notebook so that it did not look like the back of an open notebook, but instead a music stand.

1. Just an open, rectangular, indentation in the middle of the keyboard, with perhaps a bar that could be lifted and then be put down down to lock the notebook in place. Literally locked to prevent theft.
2. Or a frame of sorts, with a bottom lower than the top surface of the controller's cabinet, and with a slot cut in the back so that one slid the notebook in, keeping the notebook's keys exposed. Or it could be a frame that lifted up.

ED may have other ideas. :-)

In the two that I'm imagining, the ideal would be to have an almost flat surface if the notebook was closed. So it would look better, and so people would have a place to rest their drink before spilling it on the notebook.

Of course, either arrangement would mean that would be no screen on the keyboard itself, and the knobs and sliders would have to be kept to the left and the right, since the center would be preoccupied.

Many advantages:
The absence of a screen would reduce the cost.
Short midi cables. No tangles and if the notebook was just kept in the keyboard, no need to connect and disconnect them on gigs--no set up or break down for midi. Plug in the keyboard and sound card and go?
Obviously, Pianoteq, along with a sequencer, other sound engines, lyric sheets, and whatever else would be right in the keyboard\notebook.

But we've known all of this for how many years?

Last edited by Jake Johnson (10-11-2014 02:22)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Also a hollow space in the back/underneath for a power strip.  That way you can plug in amp, laptop, DP "inside" and have only a single cable going out to the power outlet.  Avoid the cable rat-nest.

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Mossy wrote:

Also a hollow space in the back/underneath for a power strip.  That way you can plug in amp, laptop, DP "inside" and have only a single cable going out to the power outlet.  Avoid the cable rat-nest.


I like that idea. Just leave everything plugged into the strip, and then there's just one plug to worry about.

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

groovy wrote:

It would find it challenging to embed a Thin Mini-ITX Board like Q1900TM-ITX:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Q1900TM-ITX/

Inexpensive, passive cooled and it should be compatible with Linux Audio.

... for another project I bought this board now and had the chance to test it with Piantoteq 5.1.1 trial on Debian (jessie) with KDE-Desktop. Works absolutely flawless! Performance index ist 22 while playing with 48kHz, 256 max. polyphony, 64 samples (1.3 ms). The onboard soundchip is ALC892, which I use with ALSA directly to "hardware device without any conversions" in stereo.

The board is very flat and I think it would fit in some keyboards. But for now I build it into a small SilverStone metal-case. The case comes with two VESA brackets, so I could mount it to the wooden bottom of my Kawai ES3, if I like to.

Btw, the J1900 Quadcore has 1.99 GHz, but Pianoteq shows CPU Frequency 2900 MHz. That is not the fault of Pianoteq, the current cpu-frequency reported by my kernel is around this value (don't know why), and PTQ seems just to read from there.

cheers

PS: The few performance tweaks that I made were the same I described in another thread, search for "bay trail", if interested.

Thin Mini-ITX Motherboard with J1900 CPU

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Nice looking. I can almost imagine the case labeled "Pianoteq" instead of Silverstone. :-)

Some obvious questions:

How many usb ports for a sound card, keyboard, mouse, midi, etc?
A half-size video card?
Will a wireless wifi card fit into that case, along with everything else?
What other software are you running? One of my worries about Linux has always been with vsti hosts, sound editing software, etc. I know that these types of programs are available for Linux, but I've neer investigated them enogh to know what limitations they might impose.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (12-11-2014 13:38)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

groovy wrote:
groovy wrote:

It would find it challenging to embed a Thin Mini-ITX Board like Q1900TM-ITX:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Q1900TM-ITX/

Inexpensive, passive cooled and it should be compatible with Linux Audio.

... for another project I bought this board now and had the chance to test it with Piantoteq 5.1.1 trial on Debian (jessie) with KDE-Desktop. Works absolutely flawless! Performance index ist 22 while playing with 48kHz, 256 max. polyphony, 64 samples (1.3 ms). The onboard soundchip is ALC892, which I use with ALSA directly to "hardware device without any conversions" in stereo.

The board is very flat and I think it would fit in some keyboards. But for now I build it into a small SilverStone metal-case. The case comes with two VESA brackets, so I could mount it to the wooden bottom of my Kawai ES3, if I like to.

Btw, the J1900 Quadcore has 1.99 GHz, but Pianoteq shows CPU Frequency 2900 MHz. That is not the fault of Pianoteq, the current cpu-frequency reported by my kernel is around this value (don't know why), and PTQ seems just to read from there.

cheers

PS: The few performance tweaks that I made were the same I described in another thread, search for "bay trail", if interested.

Thin Mini-ITX Motherboard with J1900 CPU

Hello,

It's very nice and very very interesting.
May I ask you:
- What kind of power supply do you use?
- What type of cooling? Is it integrated with the mother bord?
- Is it noiseless?

Thanks

Last edited by stamkorg (12-11-2014 14:26)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Hi,

thanks for your interest. I'll try to answer your questions.

@Jake Johnson

How many usb ports for a sound card, keyboard, mouse, midi, etc?

The board has 4 USB-Ports on the backside, one of them is USB 3.0. The SilverStone case came with two further frontside USB-Ports, that I connected to the board. So I have 6 Ports in total.

A half-size video card?

I just use the onboard Intel i915 graphics and don't know the external solutions. In the BIOS I saw an option to select between onboard and something with PCI.

Will a wireless wifi card fit into that case, along with everything else?

Yes.

What other software are you running? One of my worries about Linux has always been with vsti hosts, sound editing software, etc. I know that these types of programs are available for Linux, but I've neer investigated them enogh to know what limitations they might impose.

Just Pianoteq and a Mixer applet. For more parallel activies I would route everything through 'jackd'.

@stamkorg

What kind of power supply do you use?

I use a power supply I already had from an older HP Notebook. 19 VDC is very common and every other universal notebook-power-supply for around 20 EUR should work. In the manual three example power adapters are listed. 

What type of cooling? Is it integrated with the mother bord?

It is passive cooled (fanless) like in the link I posted. I have around 40°C while playing.
 

Is it noiseless?

Absolutely noiseless.

cheers

Last edited by groovy (12-11-2014 21:19)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

It would be great if Casio put a box like that along with a tablet screen into an instrument like the PX-150, and then sell the Pianoteq Pro software as an option.  Pehaps Pianoteq could license them just a single voice for the basic model.

Last edited by GRB (12-11-2014 22:35)
Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

GRB wrote:

Perhaps Pianoteq could license them just a single voice for the basic model.

I bet it'll happen soon. Why single voice? They could sacrifice organs and strings and just have the whole Stage engine inside with electric pianos, marimbas, harpsichords, etc.

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

Just for a "Proof-of-Concept" I tried to remote-control my headless mini-itx PC with a Tablet.

First I had to make the Mini-PC to autostart Pianoteq just by the push of the powerbutton. I already had a KDE Desktop-Environment on it, so I could use its 'Auto-Login without password' feature to start a user-environment for Pianoteq.

In the KDE-Autostart-folder of this user I placed a script, that autostarts Pianoteq after autologin ...

#!/bin/sh
/home/alice/Pianoteq\ 5/amd64/Pianoteq\ 5 &
/usr/bin/x11vnc -forever -display :0

... and also the nice VNC Server 'x11vnc', which makes the display remote-controlable by any remote VNC viewer.

On the Android Tablet I chose to install the free 'VNC Viewer' App from RealVNC. With one finger-tap on the tablet and after entering the PCs IP once (it is saved afterwards), the tablet connects to my remote Pianoteq-PC. The following picture shows the result:

Tablet:
http://s14.directupload.net/images/141116/ooxhlaoo.jpg

The remote-control via the touchscreen works. - Being just a PoC, I didn't focus on security, so the next thing to do would be to encrypt and authorize all used connections. Should be no problem, x11vnc is very well documented on Linux.

cheers

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

AKM wrote:
GRB wrote:

Perhaps Pianoteq could license them just a single voice for the basic model.

I bet it'll happen soon. Why single voice? They could sacrifice organs and strings and just have the whole Stage engine inside with electric pianos, marimbas, harpsichords, etc.

Well I was just  thinking that they could continue to control the show by licensing just a single voice and then selling the Pro Version as an accessory. Buyers could start out with something good, and pay up to something more versatile.

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

groovy wrote:

The remote-control via the touchscreen works. - Being just a PoC, I didn't focus on security, so the next thing to do would be to encrypt and authorize all used connections.

I had time again to continue with it. The mini-PC with Pianoteq is an "autonomous system" now with just a wireless connection to its user. With the help of an USB WLAN-adaptor the unit has become a Wifi Access-Point (AP). Every wireless laptop or tablet around ist now able to connect to it and to remote-control the Pianoteq-session on the mini-PC.

But those display-frontends are not "a must". After power-on, the mini-PC starts with the last pianoteq-session and is instantly playable. Pressing the power-button again shuts the PC down cleanly to deep sleep (S5, no power-consumption).

Well ... not every user is allowed to connect, just those, who know the WPA2-Passphrase for the AP (traffic-encryption) and the password for the VNC-Remote-Desktop (authentication). Both credentials can be stored as usual on the user's tablet or laptop, if one doesn't like entering them everytime).

There just was to add one option to the VNC-server to secure it with a Password-Login:

/usr/bin/x11vnc -display :0 -forever -shared -rfbauth $HOME/.vnc/passwd

At the moment I am using an external WLAN-Adaptor (Edimax) as shown on my photo, because with my available internal mini-pcie WLAN-Card I wasn't able to get a *stable* WLAN-AP.  Eventually I will try a mini-pcie-module of another vendor later and hope for better luck.

The AP-software I'm running is 'hostapd' together with 'isc-dhcp-server'. I set the speed to 802.11g/54mbps, which is more than sufficient to remote control my new "Pianoteq-Soundmodule".

cheers

http://fs1.directupload.net/images/141209/ag7w9a5r.jpg

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

groovy wrote:

Btw, the J1900 Quadcore has 1.99 GHz, but Pianoteq shows CPU Frequency 2900 MHz. That is not the fault of Pianoteq, the current cpu-frequency reported by my kernel is around this value (don't know why), and PTQ seems just to read from there.

With the latest CPUs, /proc/cpuinfo no longer shows accurate results -- especially for CPUs with turbo burst option.  I've found cpufreq-aperf is accurate even when detecting turbo burst but I'm not sure if every distro has this package available.

The J1900 can burst to 2.4ghz so I'd expect to see that periodically.

GRB wrote:

It would be great if Casio put a box like that along with a tablet screen into an instrument like the PX-150, and then sell the Pianoteq Pro software as an option.  Pehaps Pianoteq could license them just a single voice for the basic model.

There are open-source synths.  You could easily add SynthAddSubFx and Fluidsynth + an open-source soundfont -- put add some icons/shortcuts on the desktop to switch between the 3 packages to have nearly unlimited voices.

Last edited by Mossy (02-08-2015 11:15)

Re: Has anyone attempted to build the Pianoteq into a Casio Priva?

groovy wrote:

Btw, the J1900 Quadcore has 1.99 GHz, but Pianoteq shows CPU Frequency 2900 MHz.

Hi Mossy,
I wrote that 2014 and that cosmetical display-problem has gone meanwhile with the updates. The 'CPU Frequency' shown by Pianoteq bursts dynamically up to 2.4 GHz on that system, right.

Last edited by groovy (02-08-2015 21:26)