Topic by Mr.Woodchuck

  • Avatar
  • Mr.Woodchuck
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 28-08-2014
  • Posts: 6

Topic: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

I'm testing out Pianoteq and am currently using the internal original laptop soundcard. I downloaded ASIO4ALL and am able to get the system to work after I disable all but the "Independant Dual Headphones" and then reboot the PC. The problem is when I use the computer for any other application or Web browsing, the Pianoteq software makes no sound and I have to repeat the process of disabling other sound outputs and rebooting. I realize that the problem is most likely due to the fact that ASIO4ALL will only work with one program exclusively.
If I buy an external audio interface such as the R22 which has it's own ASIO drivers, will that allow me to somehow assign the onboard card to other applications and use the R22 for Pianoteq  and eliminate the need to reboot when moving from say web browsing to Pianoteq and back?
Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge with a newby.

Reply by Luc Henrion

  • Avatar
  • Luc Henrion
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 02-05-2007
  • Posts: 897

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

short answer: yes ! :-)

Luc Henrion's Website

Reply by kalessin

  • Avatar
  • kalessin
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 06-12-2013
  • Posts: 306

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

It should not be necessary to reboot. Yes, ASIO4ALL utilises WDM kernel streaming, which means exclusive access to the soundcard. Thus it can only initialise the device if no other software is currently using it. I have used Pianoteq with my built-in sound plenty of times, in fact it falls back to it automatically when my USB device is not connected.

Concerning the second part of your question: if you assign a different hardware device (i.e. a good USB Focusrite or Steinberg interface) to Pianoteq, your problems will probably be solved permanently, as long as you don't assign it as Windows' default audio output as well...

Last edited by kalessin (30-08-2014 12:34)
Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Reply by Mr.Woodchuck

  • Avatar
  • Mr.Woodchuck
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 28-08-2014
  • Posts: 6

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

Thanks for responding. I'll be getting an R22 soon and will report back on how it works out.

Reply by Mr.Woodchuck

  • Avatar
  • Mr.Woodchuck
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 28-08-2014
  • Posts: 6

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

Oh well, this has turned out to be a tremendous waste of time. Got the Steinberg UR22, installed and sound constantly "dropped out". Installed, uninstalled, deactivated internal sound device, reboot, reboot, reboot.  Adjust buffer size, sample rate, etc, etc., etc. Still dropping sound. Thought it might be my PC so I tried installing on wifes windows 7 computer and got no sound whatsoever!  Guess I'll send it back and give up on Pianoteq.

Reply by Jake Johnson

  • Avatar
  • Jake Johnson
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Atlanta
  • Registered: 04-05-2007
  • Posts: 4,491

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

Can you provide more information? Do other instruments, such as sample-based vsti's, play without any problems?

Reply by Mr.Woodchuck

  • Avatar
  • Mr.Woodchuck
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 28-08-2014
  • Posts: 6

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

No other instruments or VST's. Pianoteq is my first attempt to alter sound from my digital pianos.
I'm running Vista. I believe my PC has AMD 1.6ghz processor with 4 GB ram. 500 gig HD. I'm not at same location as my PC right now. IDT internal sound controller.

Reply by Jake Johnson

  • Avatar
  • Jake Johnson
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Atlanta
  • Registered: 04-05-2007
  • Posts: 4,491

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

Mr.Woodchuck wrote:

No other instruments or VST's. Pianoteq is my first attempt to alter sound from my digital pianos.
I'm running Vista. I believe my PC has AMD 1.6ghz processor with 4 GB ram. 500 gig HD. I'm not at same location as my PC right now. IDT internal sound controller.

Is your cpu single core or dual core or higher? If it's single core, that could be the problem.

And you downloaded the latest driver for your new sound card that's compatible with your computer's operating system? And rebooted? Can you hear Youtube videos using it? Without dropouts?

Are you closing your browser, too, before starting Pianoteq? Google's Chrome, for one, doesn't play well with music software. 

Well, you might try downloading a free vsti or two and one of the free sequencers that play them, such as Mulab, and testing them to see if they work. That would tell you if the problem is with Pianoteq or with something in your setup or configuration. (It's almost certainly not Pianoteq, unless you are on a single core system. It's fairly cpu-intensive.)

I do know what you are going through. I think I can accurately say that we've all gone through it. Getting all of the settings right in all of the stages can seem like a nightmare. And then one day it all clicks and you wonder what was so complicated. 

Don't give up. And maybe someone else here has experience with the R22....??

Last edited by Jake Johnson (03-09-2014 01:21)

Reply by Mr.Woodchuck

  • Avatar
  • Mr.Woodchuck
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 28-08-2014
  • Posts: 6

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

"Is your cpu single core or dual core or higher? If it's single core, that could be the problem."

I checked and it's dual core 2.2ghz.

"And you downloaded the latest driver for your new sound card that's compatible with your computer's operating system? And rebooted? Can you hear Youtube videos using it? Without dropouts?"

I downloaded the Steinberg 1.73 driver the Steinberg sight lists as appropriate for Windows XP, Vista, 7, or 8. I haven't tried using it for U-tube videos or other sound generating programs as I knew that ASIO drivers were only supposed to be used exclusively by one application, or am I incorrect. I make it a point to close all other applications before using Pianoteq.

I'll try assigning the UR22 as default sound and see what happens.
Thanks for the reponse!

Reply by Jake Johnson

  • Avatar
  • Jake Johnson
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Atlanta
  • Registered: 04-05-2007
  • Posts: 4,491

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

Mr.Woodchuck wrote:

"Is your cpu single core or dual core or higher? If it's single core, that could be the problem."

I checked and it's dual core 2.2ghz.

"And you downloaded the latest driver for your new sound card that's compatible with your computer's operating system? And rebooted? Can you hear Youtube videos using it? Without dropouts?"

I downloaded the Steinberg 1.73 driver the Steinberg sight lists as appropriate for Windows XP, Vista, 7, or 8. I haven't tried using it for U-tube videos or other sound generating programs as I knew that ASIO drivers were only supposed to be used exclusively by one application, or am I incorrect. I make it a point to close all other applications before using Pianoteq.

I'll try assigning the UR22 as default sound and see what happens.
Thanks for the reponse!

Oh, you can use ASIO drivers to listen to anything that you want. It's just having two sound applications open at once that can cause problems. Check out the Youtube videos, or any other sound files, to be sure that you can get a good sound. (I use Youtube videos to check my sound only because they are easy to get to.)

Reply by Luc Henrion

  • Avatar
  • Luc Henrion
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 02-05-2007
  • Posts: 897

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

you could/should also check your PC audio abilities with this freeware:
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
Really highly recommended.
Sometimes simply disabling an unused driver or two, (often the WLAN) is all that's needed.

Luc Henrion's Website

Reply by kalessin

  • Avatar
  • kalessin
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 06-12-2013
  • Posts: 306

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

Also, e.g. on notebook hardware certain CPU power saving features can cause all kinds of problems. I have had this problem in the past, though I cannot recall details on which CPU feature it was, sorry. It was buried deep in the perfomance/power saving settings.

Could you also give details on what AMD CPU exactly your PC has? The frequency alone does not say too much, unfortunately. Have you tried limiting the polyphony to a low value, e.g. 32 or less?

Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Reply by Mr.Woodchuck

  • Avatar
  • Mr.Woodchuck
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 28-08-2014
  • Posts: 6

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

Tried the latency checker and found wifi adapter was misbehaving so I disabled it and guess what?  No improvement!
Still dropping out and Pianoteq graph stops intermitently still.
Processor is an AMD Turion x2 Dual Core Mobile RM74 2.2Ghz  4 Gb Ram 64Bit

I really wonder how you guys put up with this hassle! With 2 different PC's and different operating systems, 2 different audio interfaces, and nothing but problems!  I wonder if Mac is really better. Can't be worse!

Reply by Mossy

  • Avatar
  • Mossy
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-01-2014
  • Posts: 200

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

Your CPU unfortunately is a bit old.  Even more unfortunately, AMD CPUs historically have not been as good as Intel's for floating point instructions (which modelling software tends to use).  The performance looks similar to an old laptop I used to use ... here's how I tweaked Pianoteq to work OK with it:

Set Sample Rate to 22000hz
Set Internal Sample Rate to 11000hz
Turn off CPU overload detection
Decrease polyphony
Increase audio buffer

https://soundcloud.com/mossy456/

Reply by Luc Henrion

  • Avatar
  • Luc Henrion
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 02-05-2007
  • Posts: 897

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

The problem is not Pianoteq indeed but PC's AND Mac's... or graphic cards! A few years ago, I had a big similar problem with a Sony Vaio (not a cheap one: i5, 4 GB RAM, full HD 17", Blu Ray and all;I paid about 1K € for this toy): impossible to get a recording of only 4 audio tracks without drops !!! Turns out  it was the graphic card (Nvidia) that would randomly have access to the memory of the PC, creating havocs in the audio. Cure? Nope. Oh, yes disabling the graphic card and working in VGA mode !!! Argh !
And, by the way, some Mac's use exactly the same Nvidia config, and I've seen reports of similar problems on some forums...
I bought a (less expensive!) Asus WITHOUT a dedicated graphic card: I can get now 100 audio tracks continuous recording, not a single drop after 2 hours ! Needless to say, Pianoteq runs like charm.
More and more graphic cards companies have only one category of users in sight: players. Now you know... :-(

Luc Henrion's Website

Reply by kalessin

  • Avatar
  • kalessin
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Germany
  • Registered: 06-12-2013
  • Posts: 306

Re: Trying out Pianoteq, have sound card questions

Mr.Woodchuck wrote:

Processor is an AMD Turion x2 Dual Core Mobile RM74 2.2Ghz  4 Gb Ram 64Bit

This is a slow CPU. Passmark score is just about 1000. You should normally have 2500+ for Pianoteq. Did you check your polyphony settings? You will probably not get more than 32 with that CPU, maybe not even that. Try to set it to e.g. 8 and then, if that works, slowly increase it.

Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)