Topic: Another VPC1 review

Hi All,

I thought I would write a review for those still interesting in buying the VPC1.

I wasn't really too excited about it when it came out.  I've had one disappointing digital piano after another.  The last one I had was a loser - Casio Celviano AP ...620?  I've owned or played on many of the ones currently on the  market (though not all), including yamaha p155, kawai mp8ii and roland v piano.  Despite the hype for the VPC1 (it was sold out for several months after the release), I was holding out for something better; however, I waited over a year and haven't really seen anything, so I went ahead with the VPC1.

I use the digital piano for practicing (Chopin Etudes, Bach-Busoni Chaconne, and so on), but mainly I bought it to interface with Logic.  I own a Kawai baby grand, so I don't really need this for practicing.   Still, I really like pianoteq and hope one day the digital pianos will be on par with (or better than) real pianos. 

After several weeks, I think it is safe to say I will keep it.  It is definitely better than the Casio I had, and I would say, the best digital piano that I've played on so far.  The keys feel well made and not cheap.  No rattling in the keys.  The casing is solid.  The touch is pretty good.  The keys have that hitch at the bottom when pressed down slowly, just like a real piano.  I don't know what that is called, but I like that the mechanism includes this, as it makes it feel more realistic.  In short, the key mechanism is pretty close to a real piano, though not quite there.  I also like that there isn't a bunch of junk toy sounds included.  I always feel like I'm wasting my money buying pianos with built-in whistles and gunshot sounds. 

People have complained about the music stand.  I don't see what the problem is, but to be honest, I don't really care about the stand.  I'll tape my music to the wall if I have to.  I guess the stand feels a little bit cheap, but it's fine and doesn't bother me.

3 negatives:
1) Repeated notes.  This is a problem with all the digital pianos I've played on.  I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I think it has to do with how fast the key bounces back up after you hit it once.  On a real piano, the key hits the bottom and rebounds up.  On the VPC1 (and others), it seems that the key doesn't rebound as well.  Like it is sluggish or doesn't spring back as fast.  Playing something like Scarlatti's sonata k141 would be hard work.  Trills are fine; it's just the repetition of single notes which is a problem.  That being said, after trying to playing repeated notes on the VPC1, I find that when I go to the real piano, it seems much easier. 
2) The pedals.  The pedals feel cheap.  On a real piano, you can basically rest your foot on the pedal and it won't go down.  On the VPC1 pedals, you have to actively raise your foot if you don't want the pedal to go down.  The pedals need more resistance.  And they are too short.  So, I don't really like the pedals.  I feel like they could have done a better job with these.
3)  I know people have complained about the top being curved.  I see their point, however something related: the height of the top part relative to the keys.  I know they were trying to construct it without wasting material or space, but for me, it needs to be taller.  In other words, the jump from the surface of the keys to the top of the piano needs to be more.  I find that when things start going fast and I'm playing towards the back end of the keys, my middle finger occasionally gets caught on top of the piano.  It's not a major problem. 

I hope this helps someone.  If I had to give a score, I'd give it an 89 out of 100.  Overall, I like it.  Perhaps newer models will make improvements on 1) and 2).  Thank you.

Re: Another VPC1 review

rjawad1 wrote:

The keys have that hitch at the bottom when pressed down slowly, just like a real piano.  I don't know what that is called, but I like that the mechanism includes this, as it makes it feel more realistic.

This is "let-off", you can see a cross section of the action here, there's a small piece catching the hammer just before the final sensor triggers. Kawai proudly tout this as a premium feature, though some people don't agree it should be in there. Here's a guy who modified his VPC1 and removed it, seems quite easy.

Kawai just released the MP11, where they bring their Grand Feel action to a "portable" slab. Maybe we'll see GF in the VPC2 someday, who knows. GF is said to be the superior action with longer pivot, perhaps it addresses your complaint about repeating notes, I don't know. To address #2, a good thing about the VPC1 is it's modularity, exchanging the pedals is quite possible if there are any sturdier MIDI pedals on the market. I guess we're stuck with the sloping cabinet for now

Thank you for the review, I'm always interested in new perspectives although I've been researching the VPC1 for a while. I'm set to get one soon. This is another encouraging review I'd say.

Last edited by archikeys (07-03-2014 08:35)

Re: Another VPC1 review

Thanks for your review.  The problem for me and I'm sure for many others here is that we cannot get our hands on a VPC-1 to try it so the more information like yours the better.

I'm confused about the comment regarding MP-11 action alluding to it being better than the VPC-1.  I thought it was the same as the MP-10 which is an older technology action than the VPC-1?

I play an upright acoustic so the VPC-1 action will be different for me anyway as I understand it emulates a grand action which of course has a different feel.

I guess some foam rubber under the VPC-1 pedal part might help with increasing downward pressure.   I've done this with a digital piano emergency when the return spring broke.   It worked very well.

Ian

Re: Another VPC1 review

Archikeys,

WOW!  How did you learn about joflaherty?

Great pictures,

Ian

Re: Another VPC1 review

Found them trawling through Piano World forums as usual

The Kawai MP10 uses RM3 Grand action while the VPC1 uses RM3 Grand II. The MP11 is equipped with Grand Feel action which is the new top of the line Kawai action. It's also used in the CA65 and CA95 models, might be slightly different from the MP11 though.

Which one's the better action is of course subjective. Kawai says Grand Feel. From what I've read it's a lighter, quicker action than the RM3 Grand II. Depends on what you prefer I guess! I'm not sold on the obsession to imitate grand piano actions only, I think there are quite a few of us who'd like something closer to an upright. Perhaps the VPC1 is closer? I'm in the same boat as you, can't get my hands on one to actually try it out.

If a VPC model with Grand Feel comes out, I'd say spring 2015 at the earliest and it will probably cost a chunk more than the VPC1. Until then, I think the VPC1 is simply good enough, it does the job and does it well. Some people who have tried Grand Feel say they can't really tell the difference. MP11 has a lot of bells and whistles too, which I don't find very appealing.

Re: Another VPC1 review

Archikeys:
Let off ... okay, that's what it's called.  Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, I would agree about the vpc1 being "good enough".  It's not perfect, but pretty good.  If you have a decent keyboard already, I would not buy; but if you are looking for an upgrade, I would go with this one.

Re: Another VPC1 review

rjawad1, thank you for sharing your thoughts about the VPC1.

Beemer, as archikeys notes, the MP11 utilises the latest 'Grand Feel' keyboard action (also found in the CA95/CA65 and CS10/CS7 digital pianos), which has longer keys and a longer pivot length than the 'RM3 Grand II' keyboard action found in the VPC1.

Kind regards,
James
x

My mind says Kawai, but my heart says Nord.

Re: Another VPC1 review

Do you think that the MP-11 has selectable and custom velocity curves, i.e. matching Pianoteq?

Ian

Last edited by Beemer (09-03-2014 15:17)

Re: Another VPC1 review

Beemer wrote:

Do you think that the MP-11 has selectable and custom velocity curves, i.e. matching Pianoteq?

The MP11 does have selectable touch curves, and the ability to create 'User' touch curves based on an individual's playing style.

However, it does not feature the approved touch curves offered by the VPC1.

Kind regards,
James
x

My mind says Kawai, but my heart says Nord.

Re: Another VPC1 review

James,

Thanks for that information.  I have 90% of the money saved to buy the VPC-1 but then I read about the MP-11.

Its double the price and I don't need its "extra sounds".   

Although I will probably but the VPC-1 I'm going to wait until I read player's reviews of the MP-11 Grand Feel action.   I have not yet found any that discuss its action except for marketing viewpoints.

Ian

Re: Another VPC1 review

I played 3 VCP 1s at NAMM 2014.
2 had the Ravenscroft Piano by VI labs and not sure what was on the one at the Kawai Room. They felt pretty good to me..about as "real" as I have come across.... A little hard to really hang out and get a better feel as there is always a wee too much background noise and commotion being NAMM and all.
Got to play lots of real live pianos...so that is always cool....didn't get a chance on the gold leafed Bosendorfer in Yamahas's piano room...it was roped off.... but got to here a great lil Asian girl play it though...

Any way.... I didn't notice a MP-11 but then wasn't looking as I didn't know of such a keyboard

Re: Another VPC1 review

Kramster wrote:

I didn't notice a MP-11 but then wasn't looking as I didn't know of such a keyboard

The MP11 was not publicly exhibited at NAMM.

James
x

My mind says Kawai, but my heart says Nord.

Re: Another VPC1 review

Since the VPC1 doesn't have it's own sound generator, what would be nice is an official accessory to attach laptops to avoid the setup looking completely fugly.  It's such a beautiful, clean look -- most of the music laptop stands available just don't match well with it.

Re: Another VPC1 review

Nice one
"Here is a performance of Rachmaninoff's Prelude Op. 32 no. 5, played by Wim Lassche using Pianoteq 4.5, controlled by his VPC1."

http://youtu.be/D618MKyqU7w

Re: Another VPC1 review

No mention of which PT piano he used

Ian

Re: Another VPC1 review

Update:  I contacted the store from where I purchased the keyboard.  They put me in touch with Kawai in California.  The man with whom I spoke said that it is pretty easy to fix the pedal problem by taking the unit apart and making a small adjustment.  However, he said it would be easier to just send me a replacement - which he did.  So far, no problems with the replacement.

Re: Another VPC1 review

I'm thinking about replacing my ageing Technics PX-228 with a VPC-1.

Can anyone tell me what the resolution of the Kawai F-30 damper pedal is? I know it says "supports half-damper", but I'm hoping it has a similar resolution to the pedal on the Kawai CN series, which seems to be 128 steps (my Technics has 7 steps).

Re: Another VPC1 review

Ben Crosland wrote:

Can anyone tell me what the resolution of the Kawai F-30 damper pedal is?

I've been asked not to provide the exact number, however I can tell you that - with the latest v1.04 firmware update - the VPC1 is capable of transmitting over 50 damper pedal steps.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
James
x

EDIT: I should add that the exact number of achievable steps is dependent on the condition of the F-30 pedal unit.

Last edited by Cute James (03-02-2015 02:29)
My mind says Kawai, but my heart says Nord.

Re: Another VPC1 review

Thanks, James! Is it not the case that PTQ's velocity wizard will display all the steps it receives, though?

Re: Another VPC1 review

Ben Crosland wrote:

Is it not the case that PTQ's velocity wizard will display all the steps it receives, though?

Yes, this information can be easily checked in PTQ's MIDI events window.

Kind regards,
James
x

My mind says Kawai, but my heart says Nord.

Re: Another VPC1 review

I wonder, who can really hear 50 damper pedal positions??

Well, I tested my F30 damper pedal and I was able to change the value with a mean value increment of 10.

So that leads to 127/10 = some 12 or 13 different levels.

I had not expected much better behaviour form the really VERY cheap carbon type potentiometer, which is  also a very small type, some 16 mm in diameter.

But al long as it does NOT crackle, for me its  resolution is sufficient.

Greetings,

Geert

Re: Another VPC1 review

Thanks, Geert. Personally, I don't mind about full resolution, I just wanted to make sure it isn't a downgrade from my Technics in this regard.

Last edited by Ben Crosland (03-02-2015 01:40)

Re: Another VPC1 review

Ben Crosland wrote:

I'm thinking about replacing my ageing Technics PX-228 with a VPC-1.

Can anyone tell me what the resolution of the Kawai F-30 damper pedal is? I know it says "supports half-damper", but I'm hoping it has a similar resolution to the pedal on the Kawai CN series, which seems to be 128 steps (my Technics has 7 steps).

You should have started a new thread for your question.

Ian

Re: Another VPC1 review

rjawad1 wrote:

Archikeys:
Let off ... okay, that's what it's called.  Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, I would agree about the vpc1 being "good enough".  It's not perfect, but pretty good.  If you have a decent keyboard already, I would not buy; but if you are looking for an upgrade, I would go with this one.

Personally I think it should be called the "escapement"  it's the point on an acoustic grand where the jack is pulled out from under the hammer.  It's built this way because it enables no direct contact between the key press and the string.  The hammers are "thrown" at the string as the lifting jack is tripped out.  To me the "liftoff" is the adjustable button that trips the jack, but that's not what you feel.  Perhaps "let off" is an acceptable term; but in the case of these Kawai digital actions, it's simply a silicon rubber nub that restricts key movement slightly as it passes by.  It does make if feel slightly more realistic, but you can only feel this on an acoustic at very slow speed.  In my opinion this is the reason you should always play "to the bottom" of the key, because the that's they only way the jack is properly triggered.  It's probably a part on the Kawai action that will wear out over time.  The best thing I see about the action is the staggered balance pins.  where the balance point is more inboard on the black keys.  It also has front guide pins which are also staggered.  Most digitals don't have any front guide pin as far as I know, but Casio has a front guide frame which can create unwanted noise in the form of clicks as the mechanism begins to wear.  I wish they wold go into more detail about the location and operation of the three individual sensors.  Where are they placed? And exactly what does each one do?

Pianoteq Pro 7.x - Kubuntu Linux 19.10 - Plasma Desktop - Hamburg Steinway

Re: Another VPC1 review

GRB wrote:

Perhaps "let off" is an acceptable term; but in the case of these Kawai digital actions, it's simply a silicon rubber nub that restricts key movement slightly as it passes by.  It does make if feel slightly more realistic, but you can only feel this on an acoustic at very slow speed.  In my opinion this is the reason you should always play "to the bottom" of the key, because the that's they only way the jack is properly triggered.  It's probably a part on the Kawai action that will wear out over time.

They won't wear out on my VPC1...I didn't like the way they felt so I ripped those suckers out.

Re: Another VPC1 review

I've had mine set up for a couple of days, now. I just connected the USB, switched it on (had to consult manual to find the button!), and selected preset 3. I probably won't bother installing the software to tweak it further - I simply cannot believe how responsive this thing is. It's the kind of quality that makes every error entirely *my* fault - the result being that I now have far less tweaking to do in the piano roll.

Slight niggles: Playing into the black keys is a little heavier than I'd like, but still perfectly responsive and nothing i can't live with. Also, the red/green/orange LED is completely useless to me with my red/green colour-blindness!

Overall, I'm delighted with it, and very relieved that I haven't made an expensive mistake, having bought it entirely on spec.