1

Topic: Studiologic Numa Nero

I'd appreciate if someone posted a curve suggestion for the black version (wooden keys) of the Numa...

Thanks!

2

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

smar wrote:

I'd appreciate if someone posted a curve suggestion for the black version (wooden keys) of the Numa...

Thanks!

I've just had my Nero delivered yesterday morning. I've been using the 'You Play' system to generate automatic curves. I will have a go at making my own velocity curve in pianoteq shortly. I will use the hard touch preset on the Nero as anything softer reaches 127 much to early. I hope to post my results soon.

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

3

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

I have been trying various methods of curve creation and find that on the NUMA Nero the best method is to use 'You Play'. I did experience some of the inconsistent velocities mentioned by others on various forums and reviews, but 'You Play has ironed them out. To be honest, I think it really is just a matter of getting to grips with the technology and have some patience and time to dedicate to finding the best settings. I actually don't think there are the problems people think with the NUMA range. I just think people haven't understood how to set the keyboard up optimally. Personally, I'm thrilled with my new purchase/keyboard. The touch is extremely authentic. It takes a little adjusting to after playing a GHE action for 8 years!!! You really have to PLAY this keyboard, but the dynamic range is absolutely awesome. The key action is exceptional.

Do you know how to install the PC/Keyboard driver? If so, I'd appreciate some help!!!
If I can work out how to save patches on my PC, I can send you my velocity curve that I created with 'You Play'. It works really well.

I'll include some pics soon and also some pianoteq settings for use with the 'You Play' curve (once I am able to save it!)

regards,

Chris big_smile

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

4

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

I still do not know how to install the driver for the NUMA Nero on my PC. I have the driver text, but don't know what to do with it!!! Therefore, as yet I am unable to post a patch containing the You Play curve because I cannot transfer it to my PC until the driver for the NUMA Nero is installed.

However, as regards your request for a PianoTeq curve for the NUMA Nero, to be honest, I don't use one!!! I just use the default linear curve (straight line!). I find that if I use You Play to create the curve within the Numa Nero and the 'straight' curve in PianoTeq, it works absolutely fine. What you will have to do however is adjust the Dynamic setting in PianoTeq to your liking after having created the You Play curve in the NUMA Nero.

What is interesting about the factory default curves in the NUMA Nero, i.e. sot/med/hard, is that they produce a different global velocity curve for the white notes than for the black notes so that the black notes are quieter than the white notes! This problem is solved using the You Play utility and selecting (and saving) the resultant curve shapes.

regards,

Chris smile

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

5

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

sigasa wrote:

What is interesting about the factory default curves in the NUMA Nero, i.e. sot/med/hard, is that they produce a different global velocity curve for the white notes than for the black notes so that the black notes are quieter than the white notes!

This is more noticeable in the midrange

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

6

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

smar wrote:

I'd appreciate if someone posted a curve suggestion for the black version (wooden keys) of the Numa...

Thanks!


OK. I've found a very playable curve.


First I created a custom curve in the NUMA Nero using You Play.

Then I adjusted the PianoTeq linear curve accordingly        Velocity = [12, 127; 0, 127]

The following settings are used in PianoTeq         Dynamics 57

I also have the volume compensation enabled in the recording settings page of PianoTeq

I adjusedt PianoTeq volume till it felt right under the fingers


I suggest you create a custom curve on the Nero and adjust Dynamics to suit


Chris

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

7

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

sigasa wrote:
smar wrote:

I'd appreciate if someone posted a curve suggestion for the black version (wooden keys) of the Numa...

Thanks!


OK. I've found a very playable curve.


First I created a custom curve in the NUMA Nero using You Play.

Then I adjusted the PianoTeq linear curve accordingly        Velocity = [12, 127; 0, 127]

The following settings are used in PianoTeq         Dynamics 57

I also have the volume compensation enabled in the recording settings page of PianoTeq

I adjusedt PianoTeq volume till it felt right under the fingers


I suggest you create a custom curve on the Nero and adjust Dynamics to suit


Chris


I have adjusted and tweeked and am now fully satisfied with the following settings




ON THE NERO


1. 'Staccato' play setting

2. Custom curve (created using 'You Play')



IN PIANOTEQ


1. Velocity = [0, 13, 127; 3, 3, 127]

2. Dynamics 57

3. Limiter OFF

4. Level Compensation ENABLED

5. Voicing PIANO 33
               MEZZO 83
               FORTE 160

6. Main volume -6dB

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

8

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Hi Chris,

many thanks for your contribution to this thread and for notifying me. It has been a while since I made the initial post und wasn't really expecting a reply anymore, so I have'nt been around often lately.
The piano not being my principal instrument I felt a little unsure whether the 'You Play'-functionality of the Numa would deliver realistic velocity settings for me. So I decided to use the 'medium' velocity preset and just adjust the velocity curve in pianoteq to [13, 127; 0, 127] (as I like to be able to touch a key without hearing anything and the lowest velocity value that the Numa triggers being 12). This has felt comfortable for me so far and I use it mainly for playing the C3 Close Mic, which I like very much cos' of its presence and very pleasant intonation.
Thanks for your effort in finding settings that are possibly more suitable. I'll try them out and check whether the Numa gets even better!!

Many greetings out of of Germany!

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Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

smar wrote:

Hi Chris,

I decided to use the 'medium' velocity preset and just adjust the velocity curve in pianoteq to [13, 127; 0, 127] (as I like to be able to touch a key without hearing anything and the lowest velocity value that the Numa triggers being 12).

The [13, 127; 0, 127] is exactly the same gradient as the one in the post above, the only difference being the cut off. I use Dynamics 57 with this angle. See if 57 works for you.

I will have a close look at the medium touch setting in conjunction with the C3 close mic preset and see if I can help you perfect your curve smar.

Warm Regards,

Chris

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

10

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Hello again Chris,

this is very kind of you helping me optimize the curve in conjunction with the 'C3 Close Mic', thank you!
I have just tried your suggestion with a dynamic value of 57 with the result that I do hear a difference and it is very good! I don't think it's me imagining something that's not there. The C3 now has some kind of tonal quality that makes it more elegant and sounding closer to the real thing. As there hab been something obfuscating some of its realistic sound properties that now has been removed. But who knows, could just be me making up something not happening.

I'm very grateful for any advice that makes the pianoteq even a greater experience!

Thanks and best regards!

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Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

smar

I WAS WRONG! It's not the same gradient!!!

Anyway, I HAVE been checking out the C3 Close Mic preset as promised and will post the link to the mp3 file when I've made it.

regards,

Chris

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

12

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

here's a demo smar

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p … r_smar.mp3

regards,

Chris

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

13

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

smar,


Here's an .fxp file

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/a9b1c6e5c … 164905ba27


and an mp3 demo of the same

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p … _curve.mp3
(demo uses concert audience reverb rather than the .fxp's default C3 Player preset reverb upon which the .fxp is based)


I created the .fxp using my 'You Play' curve on the Nero. I will post an image of this along with an image of the default medium curve on the Nero to compare. I suggest you use the medium curve with this .fxp until I can find a way of saving my 'You Play' curve to file. However, you'll most probably want to tweak to your personal playing style.

note: it helps if you are able to have the volume of your speaker setup to resemble that of a real grand piano (i.e. quite loud!)


You will find with the .fxp above that if after loading it you freeze the following PianoTeq parameters

volume

velocity

dynamics

limiter

and then switch between the different models choosing their respective 'player' presets, you will notice more clearly the differences in the piano models and their true character.


enjoy

regards,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (14-04-2011 17:39)
The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

14

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

http://www.filehosting.org/file/details … ckup_1.RES

Here is a patch backup file for NUMA Nero containing the best Nero Velocity Curve I have made using 'You Play' to date.

I use it with the following .fxp

http://www.filehosting.org/file/details … atch_1.fxp

Hope this helps

Last edited by sigasa (26-04-2011 01:00)
The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

15

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Hi Chris!

I've just loaded your settings into my Numa. Was a little difficult because of the non existant drivers for windows 64 bit. But after carrying the Numa to another computer it's done now (also upgraded the firmware from 1.6 to 1.7 - but not idea what's the difference).

Have been a little busy so I will first need some time to try out the adjustments you provided. But I'll inform you when I've done it.

Big thank you so far,
SMAR

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Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Hi SMAR,

I'm pleased you managed to load the patch. Now you also have the same operating system loaded onto your Nero as mine has.

Now, here's a demo of the latest .fxp revision  (C3 Close Mic for SMAR 28-04-2011.fxp)

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p … 4-2011.mp3

This has a straight (linear) curve rather than a 'mountain' type. I was getting to many irregular velocities (due to my playing, not the Nero) with the 'mountain type curve, and have found these to be smoothed out using a linear curve.

The adjustments to the Default C3 Close Mic Preset are as follows;

Volume -3 (adjust to taste)

Dynamics 59

Velocity = [14, 127; 3, 127]
(as you prefer silence at the ppp end, adjust accordingly. However, in doing so, you may wish to also adjust the dynamics slightly)

Volume Compensation  enabled

Delay Compensation     enabled

Reverb Preset               Concert Audience


I also want to mention the fact that I really think the Play Mode most faithful to a real piano is the Staccato Play Mode. I didn't use this on the demo, but in future demos I shall. I think we should use identicle settings on each Nero for uniformity purposes.
NOTE: the patch I gave the link to uses 'Dynamic play mode' rather than 'Staccato Play Mode'. Let me know which one you like the most if you will.

Kind Regards,

Chris

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

17

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Hi both,

I too have just received a Numa Nero, but I'm finding it difficult to produce realistic velocities. I am new to controller pianos but am quite surprised that the Nero produces a velocity of 12 (with medium response setting) no matter how softly I press a key. I would have expected no sound at all while pressing a key very slowly, much like a real piano. Now I understand pianoteq can compensate for this as you have shown by increasing the velocity cut-off, but will I not still have this problem when using other programs? Do either of you know if I can adjust the velocity within Nero so 0 message is output for very low velocities? I have tried to use the "you play" feature but I do not understand how this could work. If I play soft passages it seems to just assume I have weak fingers and increases the sensitivity dramatically! If I play harder it just sends it the other way.


Many thanks,

Matt

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Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Hi Matt

First, congratulations on your new Numa Nero. Setting up your controller to your ultimate liking is crucial in enjoying the wonderful touch and expressivety of the Nero. I will do what I can in assisting you to achieve this.

Now regards the minimum velocity of 12 for white keys - slightly less for black, although I don't remember off hand the exaxct figure - I use a this velocity curve in pianoteq to compensate

Velocity = [14, 127; 3, 127]

(you can Copy and Paste into Velocity UI)

There may not be a way to adjust the minimum velocity produced by the Nero, at least I do not know of one. I believe there is free software available that will convert the velocities produced by the Nero to whatever you wish, I will have to check that out (I think there may already have been mention of these on the pianoteq forum somewhere?).


I would strongly suggest using the patch that I created suing the 'You Play' feature of the Nero. With the velocity curve it contains, I am able to get an exceptional dynamic range. I  set pianoteq's Dynamics to 62. It is very expressive. I'll post a demo shortly exhibiting this.
Visit http://www.studiologic-music.com/ and download support software for your Nero if you haven't already and you will be able to load the following from your PC to your Nero

http://www.filehosting.org/file/details … ckup_1.RES

This will mean that our velocity curves will match and therefore enable us to better achieve a uniform result.

Please feel free to ask any further questions. I am happy to be of help if I can,

warm regards,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (13-05-2011 19:53)
The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

19

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Matt

Here's the dynamic range demo I mentioned;

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p … e_demo.mp3

Regards,

Chris

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

20

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Hi Chris,


Thanks very much for getting back to me so quickly. I have downloaded your .RES file but can not see how I can install this into the Nero. I have the NumaOnLine program installed and have updated to the 1.7OS.

Many thanks for your help,

Matt

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Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

smar wrote:

...I've just loaded your settings into my Numa...

Smar, if you could let Matt L know how you loaded my .RES file onto the Nero
I'd be very grateful. I don't know how either!

Thank you

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (15-05-2011 09:25)
The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

22

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Hi Smar and Matt

Matt

Create a folder on your desktop and call it


ResourcesBackup


Then put the .RES file in it


Then open the NumaOnLine software

The .RES file should now show up in the bottom white section entitled 'On PC Resources'

Then simply make sure your Nero and PC are connected and talking to one another
via VCom and in the NumaOnLine software, click 'restore resources' at the bottom section on the left. This will load the file onto your Nero.

All that's left to do then is to switch off your Nero, and then switch it on again.

Done

Hope this helps.


Smar, I don't know whether or not you got my request, but I have since worked out how to do it as you can see above.

Forgive me if I inconvenienced you.

Regards to you both,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (15-05-2011 20:31)
The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

23

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

http://www.filehosting.org/file/details … noTeq1.RES

above is a link to a ResorcesBackup file containing Patch named 'PnoTeq1' which itself contains a markedly modified 'You Play' velocity curve entitled 'nero'.

A demo (PnoTeq1.mp3) of this curve played using .fxp of same name may be found in the files area.

I must stress, not only to Smar and Matt L, but to all who use Modartt's PianoTeq, the absolute importance of not only honing your own velocity curve with PianoTeq to enable a faithful playing/playback experience, but to use the touch/velocity curve settings on your PianoTeq triggering instrument (usually keyboard eh folks?!) that will not reach 127;127 to easily. This will in most case be the 'hard touch' setting as most of you guys will appreciate.


QUOTE FOR THE DAY... "An inferior curve makes PianoTeq sound, well er, inferior!"

I know I 'harp' on (sorry for the pun, but I didn't try to resist!) about velocity curves, but to absolutely blunt, this makes or breaks PianoTeq and as far as I can see, it is also the most important thing to get right (for that very reason).

If you can hone not only the PianoTeq velocity curve, but also edit the velocity curve within your particular keyboard, this would be most beneficial. As currently owning the Nero, I have the ability to create internal curves using 'YouPlay' (Nero's computerised curve creation system). However, this is not an exact science. Fatar aim to bring out software for editing these curves via PC etc., but this, as far as I know, has not materialised yet.

Anyway, if you own a Nero, by all means load up the .RES file if you wish (Instructions in previous post [above]). For a good starting point, play this through the .fxp also entitled PnoTeq1.

opinions please,

regards,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (19-05-2011 22:03)
The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

24

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

I realised yesterday that the lowest velocity achieveable with my latest YouPlay curve (see PnoTeq1.RES) is #8 for BOTH black AND white keys. The velocities being identicle means that I don't have to raise an initial horizontal line before the angle to cover the variation in lowest velocities between black and white notes. In other words, had they not been the same, and I set the curve to start at the highest of the lowest velocities, the lower of the lowest velocities would not sound. That is why I had to raise the bar to allow both of the variant lowest velocities to sound evenly. Now that I have an uniform #8 lowest velocity I have set a linear curve as follows;

Velocity = [6, 127; 0, 127]

I am still working on finding the best dynamics # for use with this, but it is close to the presets original dynamics #'s

I will post a demo in few minutes smile

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

25

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

here's the demo http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p … s_demo.mp3

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

26

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

The following gives a quiter lowest velocity (if you don't want silence at the lower end)

Velocity = [7, 127; 0, 127]

Should you want silence use this one

Velocity = [8, 127; 0, 127]

Both are for use with the PnoTeq1.RES file three posts back

I will see if I can find a .RES file editor on the internet and if so, post info.

Kind Regards,

Chris

Last edited by sigasa (08-06-2011 18:11)
The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

27

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

There are .RES file editors on the internet, but I think Fatar need to bring out the software they intimated they would!

Last edited by sigasa (15-06-2011 09:23)
The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

28

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Velocity = [6, 19, 34, 87, 100, 112, 127; 0, 11, 29, 98, 113, 123, 127]

A departure from the linear curve

See what you think

Regards,

Chris

The secretions of crustaceans are these sea creatures' special features!
A.k.a. I like shells!

29

Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

I'm sorry about my off top massage and my language. English isn't my native language.

I have Studiologic Numa White. I have problem with one black key on the keyboard. Аfter a time (about 3 month) the black key began make noise. It's look like click of computer mouse. Just noise, nothing more... but this noise make me angry smile

I have not guarantee from a shop where I bought Numa. Can I fix this problem by myself?

Someone demounted the Studiologic Numa White for cleaning, fixing some problems, etc ?...

I need your help.. Thank you!

Last edited by Folwing (13-12-2011 20:10)

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Re: Studiologic Numa Nero

Folwing wrote:

I'm sorry about my off top massage and my language. English isn't my native language.
I have not guarantee from a shop where I bought Numa. Can I fix this problem by myself?

Someone demounted the Studiologic Numa White for cleaning, fixing some problems, etc ?...

Да там всё просто. Отвинчиваешь снизу по периметру все мелкие саморезы (большие не трогать), переворачиваешь снова на ножки и аккуратно приподнимаешь верх. Отключаешь провода, идущие на плату управления и дисплей. После чего полностью снимаешь крышку. Клавиши независимы друг от друга и снимаются в произвольном порядке (у основания клавиши нажми на прищепку).
На днях разбирал свою Nero. Заодно заизолировал разъёмы, идущие на сенсоры aftertouch.