please comment on midi control keyboard choice

Thank you for your note Hans. Your likely right in my needing to go to a major city music store and try out controllers. But I am grateful for your thoughts on the CME and would welcome other people's comments as well. The man-machine interface issues are so vital to feel that I am hoping for insight. I will certainly check out the CME UF80 per your recommendation.

Pete

Thank you Herman---I will look into each model. As with Hans, this is good information for me.

Most grateful,

Pete

hi
I finally decide to go for the new CME UF80 keyboard ...it's a good keyboard..not disponible to PARIS ...<>15 days...
regards....alain

I'm also interested in MPK88 but the first reactions are not favorable.

The keys are very loud:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqGC0wF-...re=related

but I don't mind this, I'm quite used to that "keyboard-drumming" from M-Audio keyboards and I don't expect anything better in that price range.

A bigger problem is that keyboard seems to be limited to a single continuous pedal which is probably enough for most pianists to start looking elsewhere. There are also reports on various forums that the keys are very "stiff", making it difficult to play certain types of music.

johnvos, can you please provide more information about your experience with MPK88? I am primarily interested in anything bad about the controller (the good stuff is available from their marketing website, you don't need to repeat that).

IMHO, the Doepfer PK88 isn't worth it. The Fatar keybed it comes with is one of Fatar's lower end models. It's not graded, and judging by the diagram, it looks cheap. Despite what their website says about upgrades/options, it's only available as-is. (I asked and that's what they told me.)

I'd avoid the Studiologic Numa Nero. I got one and returned it because it was buggy and the MIDI info it sent was flawed when it came to rapid repeats. It also only has 2 pedal jacks, which is an insult to my intelligence at $1350.

I wouldn't buy anything CME after their nightmare GPP-3 pedal and zero customer support.

The Akai MPK88 is a much better alternative, having a full complement of 3 assignable pedal jacks (2 switch, 1 continuous), and a surprisingly good action. I didn't get to plug it in though, so I can't speak for it's performance!

If you want built-in sounds though, go with Yamaha's P155. Or have a look at the new Casio PX330--I haven't tried it yet but on paper it's a lot of bang for the buck.

Alain, did you actually try it? I'm interested in this one for its Breath Controller Input, but it seems the opinions are divided on the UF-80. Of course I should try it myself, but it's hard to find a shop where it is on stock...

Sounds good... And the BC1 is exactly what I use so any further information is higly appreciated!

Herman suggested the Doepfer PK88. One aspect that I like about it is its simplicity. The less software, the fewer bugs in my opinion. Besides a hardwired jumper or two, there is nothing to do but plug it in and play---how refreshing!

Besides Herman, anyone else have experience with this PK88 and its feel?

The Fatar keyboards in the Studiologic Numa may be a more recent design, but from what I keep hearing in different circles is that it is buggy as hell.

But then again release velocity seems to be missing on everything except the CME?

Pete

How are you getting on with your MPK88 johnvos? Does it integrate well with pianoteq? can you play rapid repetitions on a single note? How does it compare to Yamaha keyboard actions? Finally, would you recommend it for pianoteq and why?

Hi Joe:

You are right on target with your comments, but I am still lacking a current production model that seems to be of that caliber. So far, the PK88 has the most appeal because of its rugged simplicity. The late model StudioLogic keyboards seems to have software issues. The CME does not seem to fit me.

And release velocity seems to be out of the realm of any of them. Frustrating! I never thought it would be so complicated to find a professional level keyboard.

Pete

And the Yamaha NL2 action is in which product?

Pete

Hello again Pete,

I wish to address your comment of being frustrated about the lack of release velocity in commercially available keyboards.  To my knowledge, the only instrument that sends release velocity other than a value of 127 is the Mark IV version of the Yamaha Disklavier piano.

Restated, I wouldn't worry too much about release velocity.  RL was included in the MIDI protocol in the early 1980's when companies Roland, Yamaha and Korg drew up the MIDI specification.  At the time, they included RL as a possibility for the future, but that possibility was not executed, to my knowledge.

Let's think about release velocity for a moment:
If, in a real or modeled grand piano, the string was already impacted by the hammer, then the string is freely vibrating/oscillating on its own.  The only two conditions that will cause a vibrating string to stop are the damper silencing it, or the vibration decays away naturally.  If one plays a staccato note, and presumably releases the note quickly, then the damper will come down by gravity -- this should already be addressed by high values of MIDI release velocity.

If, on the other hand, the notes are played very softly, then the strings' vibrational amplitudes are already lower than from a loud staccato attack, and even a "slow" release velocity (i.e., slowly falling damper) should not make all that much difference in the sound.  And besides, if you are playing a piece that is soft throughout, you can always modify the damper efficiency in Pianoteq.

Perhaps I am completely wrong about this, but here is what I believe: 
Release velocity sensitivity, taken as a whole -- or the lack of it in a keyboard -- should not be something to worry about in the grand scheme of acquiring a controller keyboard.  Or, at least, it should be given much less priority to the way the 'board responds to your touch, the evenness you are able to control velocity from 1 to 127, or the weight of the keys, or build quality, etc. etc.

Enough of my rambling,

Cheers,

Joe

Just dropping in again to tell you I finally tried CME's UF80 and yes, I liked it and got mine. It has a good "hammer feel", but doesn't need too much force to be played. Well, it's as with real pianos - they all feel different, but it's a matter of taste... Yes, I like this one.
Plus it has the breath controller input that I needed - it works fine, too.
The aftertouch action needs much force, but if you get used to it, this might be a benefit since the UF80 will produce less aftertouch data accidentally when you hit keys.
I read some of the UF80s had certain issues with hammers colliding with already pressed keys. The problem seems to be solved, at least I didn't encounter these hammer noises.