Topic: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

I know that there is V-Machine, but AFAIK there are 2 problems... 1st CPU of V-Machine is too weak to handle Pianoteq well + there're some licensing issues with activating Pianoteq.

I wonder if you (MODARTT) have thought ever of making (releasing) hardware Pianoteq box. Something similar to V-Machine, but just Pianoteq inside, nothing else. I believe it would be awesome.

Since I am an owner of Playstation 3 system since Christmas, such a processor as IBM Cell would fit Pianoteq best (6 powerful streaming vector processors under the hood). Hmm.... maybe Pianoteq for Playstation or XBOX ?!

Last edited by ono (19-02-2009 15:49)
My life is... Image Reconstruction, Electronics, Synthesizers...

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

That's a nice idea, really. Russians are working on something called PianoID, actually:

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2008/...ing-piano/

Hard work and guts!

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

I for one would love to have a hardware version, with the ability to set the parameters using both knobs and an interface\editor similar to the one in the software version.

But I worry that developing this would distract from the development of the pro version and other future versions, and would require a substantial investment in capital--development of the hardware, tooling, manufacture, distribution arrangements, etc. Yamaha and Roland can budget this kind of thing and have a lot of knowledge and established manufacturing abilities. On the other hand, given the potential results and the likelihood that many, many people would want it if the price was similar that for past piano modules, or at least for physical modeling modules, it might very well become an essential piece of equipment for anyone wanting a good piano sound, let alone every touring musician. It could kill.

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

I signed up to ask this very question. I have a frankly beautiful spinet victorian style digital piano, but the on-board samples are terrible. It has maybe 3 or 4 velocity samples...Funny though, after playing with pianoteq even gigastudio's piano sounds terrible.

For performances and just the convenience of sitting at a piano and turning it on, a dedicated hardware version would definitely be something I would purchase.

It doesn't even need to have on-board controls (it would make it amazingly expensive I would imagine to be able to control every feature). I would be happy if you could put an SD card in it and load presets on to it from the software version of pianoteq.

If they did decide to make a complete hardware solution, complete with LCD screen and a host of sliders and knobs, I wouldn't expect it to cost less than a three thousand dollars (I would still purchase at that price point). Seeing as it would replace any piano sample set in a professional studio.

Last edited by loopsider (23-02-2009 08:41)

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

(Maybe we seem ungrateful by wanting this hardware version? After all, the software was developed, in part, to let us avoid having to buy hardware...And yet I think many people would want it.)

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

I'm intrigued by the comments above about the SM Pro "V-Machine" (hardware standalone VSTi host - http://www.smproaudio.com/produkte/v-machines.html )

I've yet to see one of these in the UK -
have many Pianoteq users tried one?
Have there been a lot of reports of problems?

I thought the V-machine sounded like the answer to my on-stage problems, but if it can't handle Pianoteq without glitching, then forget it!

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

On V-Machine Pianoteq 2 runs with only 4-5 notes polyphony (with reverb etc). The CPU is vastly underpowered for today's use. Maybe the V-Rack will be able to run it smoothly.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

V Rack is Vaporware IMHO. One can simply look at the jpeg on SM Pro Audio's website and see that the back side is pictured w/ 16 male XLR's.
I guess they forgot to photoshop the 8 x XLR females they claim it has.
When someone pisses on my back and tries to tell me that it's raining, I refrain from buying any of their products.
The new PTeq 3.0 works really well for me on my E8600/DP35DP, and the sound is much better than the earlier version.
I am using my MC3000 which has better action than my KS88 Pro's but I can play P3 fine on both of them.
I am hearing some guys complain that the dynamics of a rompler are better.
I actually find the dynamics of PTeq 3.0 just fine, as long as you THINK, like a Pianist, and assign the una corde and sostenuto pedals.
I actually did the same thing as most guys did when I was demo'ing it, I kept trying the velocities out and thinking, I wish it changed the tone a little more, than I remembered how I did it on real Pianos, which I haven't used onstage for quite a while. I assigned the pedals, all except the harmonic pedal, which BTW is a really new trick for me as I have never seen or used one, and I am quite pleased with this version.
The Rhodes w/ an una corde has no effect though, but I did try it.
If any players here want to hear how a sostenuto sounds w/o having to fall asleep listening to Classical Piano recordings, try to find Weather Reports " Mysterious Traveller ", and listen to Josef Zawinul droning the lower C'a and A's, while jamming with both hands and using the sos as a third hand.
It has taken most of a whole day to get used to playing the real Piano again. If PTeq were to release a hardware version, I would love to see it. Especially if it was a controller w/ PAT and some extra knobs....!!!
Perhaps Niclas and the boys can put on some white coats like the " Scientists " that Roland hires for the lame V Piano video too...hehe !!!
Thanks for making me play like a real Pianist again, I am even thinking of buying a hardware controller with better action now so I can access even more pp dynamics w/ the una corde.

Great Job.....I am sure it can only get better.

Last edited by teamsterjim (23-02-2009 17:04)
Hardware Analog, DSP, PhysMod. VSTi Romplers....

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

I don't think it would be ungrateful to want a hardware version. Because this solution is simply better than anything out there, its natural to want to see its capabilities be used in more situations than just on a PC. Pity that the vmachine is so underpowered.

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

(I meant ungrateful in that the developers are just coming out of a long, intense development and release phase, and here we are, two days after the great new version is released, asking for a completely different, difficult to create, piece of hardware.)

And I do worry that a large company might get graciously offer to get involved. (The mind drifts towards Tascam acquiring Gigasampler and the eventual results. Not exactly the same thing, granted, but I don't want PianoTeq to slip away into big, deep pockets.)

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

EvilDragon wrote:

On V-Machine Pianoteq 2 runs with only 4-5 notes polyphony (with reverb etc). The CPU is vastly underpowered for today's use. Maybe the V-Rack will be able to run it smoothly.



Bloody hell! That's completely hopeless!

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

Apparently the Muse Receptor has been able to natively run Pianoteq for a while now. Its a beast. Has anyone used it? How's the latency? I just want something I can put under the Piano's keyboard and route the USB/midi into, and then back into the piano's sound system.

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

I think you can build yourself your own rack unit PC for cheaper than Receptor, with a good dualcore CPU and 4 gigs of RAM, and a big SATA hard drive (which you can later swap with a fast solidstate drive). Then run Brainspawn Forte as a host on Windows XP Embedded. Would probably be cheaper than 2000 euros they ask for Receptor. And you would be able to run Pianoteq flawlessly.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

I agree with E.V.  Has anyone checked out the price of Receptor?

This is the cheapest one:

http://www.plugorama.com/customer/produ...ductid=607

When I saw this a while back I d@mn near fell of my chair.

Glenn

__________________________
Procrastination Week has been postponed.  Again.

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

Now V-Rack seems to be out for real.

Have you guys checked this out:

1. http://www.macmusic.org/news/view.php/lang/en/id/7866/
2. http://www.smproaudio.com/produkte/v-ma...-rack.html

3. Wizard File for Pianoteq 3.0.3 Demo
http://www.smproaudio.com/deutsch/produ...ugins.html

http://www.smproaudio.com/fileadmin/pro...20Demo.zip

Has SM Pro Audio finally made it?

Last edited by Puck01 (30-05-2009 09:19)

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

I´m thinking of building a box for pianoteq because it´s not so nice to have Laptop+external Audio interface for to play the piano.

This should be a preferably small PC with a good sound card inside. I would only need MIDI in and Stereo sound out, preferably as two jacks.
The sound card should have a very low latency.

Additionally you could connect a monitor, mouse and computer keyboard for testing and management, but you should not need this for running the box.

The box would run Windows or Linux, where Linux would be the better choice because there would be no need to buy a licence for the operating system. Until now I wasn´t able to get pianoteq running under Ubuntu Studio, but it should run.

I would not need buttons for controlling pianoteq as all settings can be made on a pc and saved on a USB drive.

Do you know any PCI soundcard with MIDI jack integrated in the slot bracket?

These are first ideas for this project. Is there anyone already running something like that? Or can you give me hints which hardware would be promising?

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

The above-mentioned V-Rack should be awesome.

Or the Muse Musebox, maybe.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

So has the V-Rack actually made it to retail yet?
Any price announced?

The V-box seems to have been a bit of a farce,
so I'd want to be very such the V-Rack wasn't rubbish too!

Muse is bring out this "Musebox" thing later in 2009, with a pricepoint under $1000 apparently, so that might be a more robust option.

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

On a Dutch serious music store the V Machine is now for sale for 349 euros
http://www.feedback.nl/?b=SMPVBOX&a=

German site has it online too
http://www.musik-produktiv.nl/(s(8qefza...10608.aspx

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

V-Machine (V-Box was previous name) can't run Pianoteq well - only a few notes of polyphony...

V-Rack is gonna be available before autumn (I think they said August)... Price would be around 1300 $.

Which is a bargain considering there's more power inside than a Receptor 2. Which costs well over 2k.

Last edited by EvilDragon (30-05-2009 22:29)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

If I take a look on the Pianoteq website under "News" I see a picture from the Frankfurter Mess in april showing a demonstration of Pianoteq. I see the Pianoteq screen projected on the screen, I see a CME masterkeyboard, I see a laptop, and I see ... a V-Rack. But I can't tell from the picture if the Pianoteq sound is coming from the laptop or from the V-rack.

--

Martin

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

m.tarenskeen wrote:

If I take a look on the Pianoteq website under "News" I see a picture from the Frankfurter Mess in april showing a demonstration of Pianoteq. I see the Pianoteq screen projected on the screen, I see a CME masterkeyboard, I see a laptop, and I see ... a V-Rack. But I can't tell from the picture if the Pianoteq sound is coming from the laptop or from the V-rack.

--

Martin

Hi Martin,

The sound came from our laptop. The V-Rack was not yet configured for a Pianoteq installation. I'm sure the V-Rack would have performed with elegance.

Regards,
Niclas

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

I'm actually in the process of using some old (post-upgrade) computer parts to make a stand-alone Linux box (THANK YOU MODARTT FOR THE LINUX VERSION SINCE 3.0.3!!)

It's just a dual-core Athlon64 with enough memory and a leftover hard drive.  If I were buying new hardware I would probably get one of those cases that looks like a media console device (Tivo, DVD, etc).

All included, you could probably build a linux machine for less than $500, with a relatively powerful processor and a modest amount of memory.  You could almost boot off of a thumb-drive, since once the program is in memory it doesn't need big/fast storage.

Throw Ubuntu on it, maybe even use some kind of a remote desktop (VNC) to manage presets (use MIDI events to do the main preset switching, etc.)  Have Jackd set to autostart.  I might look into being able to suspend so it starts up fast.  (Wake on USB when the piano is turned on? hmmmm..)

Seriously, this is going to be easy and really cheap.

Last edited by JerryKnight (08-06-2009 16:56)

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

For a headless Pianoteq Linux PC, I'd find useful:

* Add a command line switch to run Pianoteq without the GUI, just as a daemon like Apache or anything else. Maybe (for a future release) a Pianoteq GUI could be started separately to act as a control center for the actual Pianoteq daemon.

* Make disabled CPU Overload Protection persistent (see http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=666). Overload Protection seems to be buggy within Linux and causes complete dropouts of several seconds in length.

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

And check this thread about setting up PianoTeq on a Netbook:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=671

Re: Standalone hardware version of Pianoteq?

The netbook tips are great, but my philosophy is that it's easy (ie. relatively cheap) to throw decently powerful hardware in a standalone desktop system.  The netbook works great for portable keyboards and non-dedicated applications, but if it's for a non-portable digital piano, it's almost nothing to throw a used dual core AMD system (and even a powerful Intel system) into an old case and run PT, especially if you're like me and keep your old hardware whenever you upgrade.

Command-line tools would be a great option.  Not for editing, adjusting, or recording, like the standalone GUI program, but for just running a set of FXP's controlled by MIDI.  Maybe have a way to export the basic configuration from the GUI program to the command-line or daemon version.

EDIT: Yes, on my linux machines, having the CPU overload protection enabled frequently causes load spikes out of nowhere, which causes horrible skipping.  Also, the CPU overload protection setting is enabled every time the program is started, no matter what it's set at when the program is closed.

Last edited by JerryKnight (01-07-2009 00:00)