Topic: USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander

To use PianoTeq with high performance (e.g. low latency), the installation needs strong PC, or good skills in Windows OS tuning (some friends are not able to use the demo !).

Some dummies does not take care about the integration with plenty of other softwares. They need an "expander", with super piano sound, no latency, Midi-In, Line-Out. Nothing more.

Idea : why not an "USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander".

A "software package" is downloaded on a USB memorey key.

The packages embends :
- the minimum of a free real-time OS (e.g. Linux based), which avoid the loose of performance due to Windows OS.
- the midi drivers, for a panel of recommended and basic USB-MIDI interfaces
- the sound drivers, for a panel of recommended and basic sound-cards
- the  Pianoteq "engine"
- the Graphic User Interace to tune the PianoTeq sound
- a boot sector to make the USB key bootable

The user boots on this USB memory key.
The PC becomes a dedicated MIDI Piano expander, with Midi-in, midi-Thru and Line-Out R/L.
To have the maximum of performance, the user does not have to tune the operating system, etc...

To be more easier, PianoTeq can sell the USB memory key itself, with the software package pre-installed (no technical skill at all for the very-dummys !). The cost of USB memory key is pinuts today.

To be more easier again, the USB key can embends a basic sound card for the very-very dummys (see an example with a basic GM sofwtare expander without latency in the concurrence ...).
The client buys this "USB Pianoteq key", plugs Line-Out, plugs his MIDI keyboard, boots on the PC, and have a full expander with the best piano of the world !

Re: USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander

This could be a good idea with a lot of potential, but I think it's not so simple to get a plug-in USB distribution working on all hardware.

For instance, the JACK Audio Distribution is linux-based, can run VST plugins like Pianoteq, and comes in a live USB form.  It's almost exactly what you describe!  Unfortunately when I tried it on my computer the live distribution just made my hardware freeze up.  And I bought my computer's hardware with linux support in mind (linux is my default distribution).

I'm trying to get Pianoteq working on my linux box, and think I should be able to get better-than-windows performance, but it's definitely a learning experience.  I can see how the Pianoteq people, who probably don't run linux themselves, don't want to have to know and support linux on random hardware.

Perhaps in a year when the audio distributions are more stable, Pianoteq can offer a live distribution w/ Pianoteq.

In the meantime the Pianoteq people may want to become more familiar with linux issues, as more of their customers start running Pianoteq under linux (including Muse Receptor, which is a linux box).

Re: USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander

What I would really like to see, is the Pianoteq algorithm ported to run on a DSP-chip - making a Piano-module of it.

I recently installed a Yamaha CLP-295 in a church room, and although the keys of the CLP-295 are quite excellent (white keys are real wood!), the sound is no match for the Pianoteq.

I imagine what it would be like to play those wooden keys, trigging a Pianoteq module instead of a few MB of static samples!  This is of course allready possible using a lap-top PC, but on a more permanent basis it would be great to have Pianoteq in a box, for easy installation and operation (algorithm upgradeable via USB of course).

feathers

Re: USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander

A module would be nice - but there is the version upgrade problem, and the cost of such a unit would be mostly in providing the user interface.

Why not consider a dedicated computer? Case and power supply do not need to be big or expensive (tho one might want to avoid noisy ones). Any old hard disk and graphics card will do, as would an old 15" TFT. So those items could use recycled parts from old machines. The only up-to-date items would need to be mainboard, cpu and memory (and perhaps a low-end graphics card now that AGP is almost dead). But as Pianoteq has dual core support, even a low-end Intel Core2Duo should have enough processing power. Total cost should be quite modest.

Re: USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander

Hey hyper.real

Yes I've been thinking along those lines as well. The only problem I have with this solution is MICROSOFT!!! You know: long boot time, no easy reset if (sorry: WHEN) the system hangs etc. Kind of a critical issue when "in concert".

Maybe a Mac can handle such problems better (faster boot and reset)? Any idea what the practical minimum requirements would be for a Mac running Pianoteq exclusively?

Oh, and another thing: does anybody have any experience with the Muse Receptor?

Man, I sometimes regret having ever heard of Pianoteq. All those sample-based solutions sound cold and sterile to me now Especially those 32MB rompler keyboards!

feathers

Re: USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander

The only problem I have with this solution is MICROSOFT!!! You know: long boot time, no easy reset

Yes, and I'm sure you are not referring to the product licensing. Boot times get shorter with faster cpus ;-) It should also be possible to configure Windows to load the minimum drivers and services necessary (e.g. networking stacks not required), but I cannot say how much of an improvement that would bring. Perhaps even half a minute load-time might be too long in a performing setting.

The bright spot is that Pianoteq has not hung or crashed my system yet - perhaps others can confirm it is robust. (My guess is it does not do a whole lot of dynamic memory allocation, which is the thing that can cause performance degradation).

Re: USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander

Yup, you're sure right about Pianoteq being a stable program. I've never had a crash eighter. Maybe I'm just wimpy not trusting PC's in live situations. I'm thinking maybe I'll give it a go - no real reason to think it'll be less stable on stage than in the studio. Now let me see how cheap I can build a dedicated piano-PC

feathers

Re: USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander

I think that a response might be that  Receptor is essentially what you're talking about, albeit not from the ultra cheap USB side of things that plugs into a PC, but if the point is to have a module as per:

   "Some dummies does not take care about the integration with plenty of other softwares. They need an "expander", with super piano sound, no latency, Midi-In, Line-Out. Nothing more."

...then I'd figure a dedicated hardware module is far easier to run than an intel box with a sound card. Of course, they are not as cheap as a USB drive.

Re: USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander

no real reason to think it'll be less stable on stage than in the studio

That rather depends on who you would be sharing the stage with. Hard disks have been known to be unsettled by loud bass sound, for example when trying to record a concert. It may be that some makes are more susceptible than others, or that they need to be specially acoustically isolated, so there are issues beyond those encountered in the usual PC setting.

A solid state device would seem to promise a more reliable solution. Now I don't know how easy it is to get Windows to boot from a solid state device such as a USB pen drive (licensing issues I guess). However, it is possible to boot a working Linux environment from a USB drive - AFAIK it is even possible to buy a booting Linux distro preloaded onto a USB drive. From the Linux HOWTO thread here http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=74 it looks like Pianoteq can be run on Linux. (I think the angels are shortly going to throw out their harps in favour of PTQ). You may have to get involved with compiling a special Linux image with the WINE emulator and your specific sound device drivers. But that is the sort of thing Linux gurus do before breakfast ;-)

Re: USB memory bootable Pianoteq Expander

True enough hyper.real.
The scenario I'm thinking of however, would mainly be for pure classical piano concerts, with no other instruments involved, except maybe an occational singer. Actually, I don't think I'd even bother setting up a Pianoteq-PC for live pop/rock musical styles. My trusted old Kurzweil or EX-5 can handle modern styles just fine.

I wouldn't mind having Pianoteq run under Linux, although I'm not sure how much I'd benefit from it, having to apply a windows-shell like WINE.

feathers