Topic: Headphones with Pianoteq?

I've read threads like this on other forums and they don't seem to acheive much but i thought here we at lest have a common frame of reference so maybe I'll get some useful information!

I'm currently using Sennheiser 212pro phones. They're pretty good though a bit base heavy but I'm thinking of upgrading. The problem is it's not practical to try before I buy even if I could find a shop that would let me try high quality headphones - try dragging a desktop, monitor, keyboard mouse and controller into a hi-fi shop lol!

So I pretty much have to go by reviews, order and hope!

The cans I'm currently considering are - AKG K240Mk2, Sennheiser HD280 Pro, Sennheiser HD595, Sennheiser HD555 and Grado SR60

Does anyone have any experience of any of them with Pianoteq? I need phones that will work well without a headphone amp straight off my computer. I've been slightly put off the Sennheisers since reading that someone blew a brand new pair of 555s by having too much bass and Skip has posted on these forums about problems with 595s.

At the moment the AKGs appeal most but they're studio monitor headphones which I've heard may be a little dry for listening to recorded music - not sure how that would affect Pianoteq?

Thanks for any thoughts!

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

It is tricky doing the testing. I'm actually going to record something with Pianoteq and put it on CD to take with me to the store next time.
(if they let me through the doors ;^) ;^) If you're able to do that, maybe that's a reasonable compromise?

Greg.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

Hi Skip, maybe, I really don't know. You still have the problem of different hardware, as you said on the other forum your 595s were clipping at home but sounded fine in the shop.

I have a bigger problem than that though, I don't even know of a shop that will let you try high quality headphones. There's a department store (John Lewis) with a listening area but they only stock fairly basic consumer phones.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

Yes, I am very lucky - my store has audiophile quality headphones on display, which can be auditioned.  They also have a very good return policy.

Greg.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

I use Beyerdynamic DT 770Pro headphones.  I have no complaints with them at all.  They sound great for all styles of music.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

If you can get those BeyerDynamics mentioned one post above, you would be VERY satisfied, trust me.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

I have Sennheiser HD250 linear II's

I like them!

Maybe a little bass-lite, but they are accurate and pleasant generally.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

Thanks for the replies! The Beyedynamic DT770pros do look nice from the reviews I've read but they have high impedence. My current phones are rated 32ohm and they are loud enough, I wouldn't want to lose much volume though. The Beyedynamics are 80ohm, would they be significantly quieter than my Sennheisers? They're a little more expensive than I wanted too though I might stretch to them.

The Senn HD250 don't seem to be available any more, presumably they were replaced by the HD280s ? I know they're good phones but they're the only fully closed phones in my list (AKG are semi open) that may be fine for me (my current 212pros are closed) but I've read number of people saying the sound of open cans is superior, I've never tried a pair of quality open phones though. Any thoughts on that?

The AKGs and the Beyers sound like an ideal compromise, the AKGs are midway between fully closed and fully open and the Beyers use some technology to get an open sound from closed phones!

Last edited by BazC (08-03-2009 13:22)

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

Hi BazC,
I think it's just a matter of taste. If you have a quite environment semiopen is the way to go (still a bit isolating but not giving anechoic sensation and waaay more confortable then colsed ones for long wearing time).
In studio I have a lot of k140 and sony for recording but more than ten years ago I bought a K240DF for help in engineering and personal use. They are wonderful and still working very well: now I use at home basically with pianoteq and I'm very pleased. They are semiopen and so very confortable even after two or three our of playing. Also, because are semiopen, I can hear the sound of real clavinova action (I have the fp-01) that gives me the illusion of more space. The point is that, being professional, they have very high impedance (600ohm) and the sound is very linear but because of this if drived correctly (and you don't need booming biggy basses) they are quite perfect for every kind of music; I plug them in clavinova phones output because the computer output is too weak and they are not equipped with mini-jack..
Said that I don't know if 240MKII are an improvement of 240DF or a totally different story.. So listen to them if you can and never buy used headphones if you can't try intensively or you really trust the seller..
Hope this helps.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

Ya - taste is the biggest denominator here - specs say a lot about the technical side of things, but if you don't like the sound of a technically superduper headphones then choose an other...
I use a (very old) Sennheiser HD430 and a Beyer DT770 Pro myself...
It depends on the type of music I'm playing, which one I use...
The DT770 sometimes has a bit too prominent bass for me.
When I'm playing drums I really like them, but for playing piano I prefer the Sennheiser.
Also, the Sennheiser is a semi-open type whereas the Beyer is fully closed. This lends itself more for vocals, when I am recording that because otherwise the mic may pick up the mix coming from the open Sennheiser as well..
Anyway - the Beyer has a very broad frequency range with strong bass... as said sometimes a bit too pronounced for me...
btw the Sennheiser is 600 ohms, the Beyer is 250 ohms....

cheers
Hans

Last edited by creart (08-03-2009 13:31)

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

Thanks Etto it does help! The old K240s were high impedence and presumably would need a headphone amp to work properly with my computer - too expensive! The new Mk2s are much lower though (55ohm) and said to be superb phones too.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

Thanks for the input Hans! I realise it's a question of taste but as I said I doubt I'll have the opportunity to try any of these phones. Both of your headphones are high impedence do you use a headphone amp or do you get enough volume off your soundcard? I'm concerned that I'll lose a lot of volume if I go much higher than my current low impedence Sennheisers - 32ohm.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

I agree that the volume level of my DT770s is a bit lower than what is common but their closed design kinda cancels that out.  Without a lot of external sound bleeding in the volume of the headphone can be much lower and less colored by the effects of dB gain.

The closed design can also make them seem a little bass-heavy (depending on the music).  But you have to be careful not to try to compensate for that when mixing or mastering because it is just a proximity effect and mixes do sound fine on normal stereos and iPods even though they "seemed" to be a bit bass heavy in the headphones.

I love them for recording with Pianoteq as much as I do for listening to some Ottmar Liebert.   I'm not one to use one particular headphone for one thing and another headphone for another - it's too much to worry about!  I found the DT770 to be the one headphone that I can use for all my needs.  Plus, they were on sale when I got them for $189!

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

Thanks for the info Curt, my current headphones are closed though I don't suppose they isolate as well as more expensive models. I'll certainly consider DT770s further though.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

Apparently I have only had headphones with higher impedance so far so I would not know how the output level compares...
I have them connected to either an amplifier that is connected to my digital mixer or to a headphone amplifier that is also connected to my mixer.
In both cases I think I have more than enough output level.. I never want to overdo that anyhow... want to keep my ears healthy for a long time to come :-)
The DT770 are good but the weight and pressure on your head can be too much at times.... obviously depends on how long you're wearing 'm

cheers
Hans

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

creart wrote:

In both cases I think I have more than enough output level.. I never want to overdo that anyhow... want to keep my ears healthy for a long time to come :-)

Absolutely! I'll be plugging straight into my computer though so I won't have anything like the power you're getting from a dedicated headphone amp or hifi amp like you're using!

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

BazC,
Just a small suggestion - since you will be using the computer's output, you might find it lacking in bass, compared to a good quality headphone amplifier. Because of this, it might make some sense to get a pair of headphones which emphasise the bass. 

Greg.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

I actually just compared my HD-595's between my hi-fi amp & my laptop. The laptop does sound like it has less bass - the hi-fi amp produces a deeper warmer sound. I was playing a single note - the very lowest C on a piano, using C3 Player, at a velocity of around 75.

Nevertheless, the laptop still sounds good through these phones, and plenty of volume.  (notwithstanding the other issues I am currently having, of course)

As a point of reference, my professional digital stage piano sounds identical for that note, when I compare *it's* headphone output, to the sound when I run it through my hi-fi amp.

I then tried my HD-570's on the laptop, and it has more bass, which is what I expected - they do have a punchier bass than the HD-595. However, they have a higher impedance than the HD-595, and even with the laptop's volume controls (Master and Wave) set to 100%, I don't think it would be quite loud enough.

EDIT: I've just re-read the base post, and I see that you feel that your current headphones a bass heavy. If that's the case, maybe your headphone output does have enough bass!

Greg.

Last edited by skip (09-03-2009 05:18)

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

Thanks Skip that's a big help! It more or less confirms what I suspected that I need to keep the impedence down probably 68 ohms or less if possible. That limits things a bit and should make the choice easier!

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

I see that the 570s aren't all that high - 64 ohms, cf the 595's which are 50.   Anyway, I can't see the 570s on Sennheiser's web site any more. Btw I noticed more treble with the 570s as well - more bass and treble than the 595's when playing that piano note.

Greg.
p.s I'm in a big mess with my HD-595's - taking the second pair back for a refund and will be trying AKG 601s next.  I've made mistakes along the way and I can't really point the finger at Sennheiser or anyone, but I do feel that the 595's might at the very least be more fragile than my old 570s, or for that matter, my 455's.

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

FWIW, I have my nice Austrian headphones now - AKG K601's.  What a big difference between the 595's and the 570's - the 570 has the most bass, the 595 a bit less, and the 601 less again.  In fact overall the sound from the 601 is closer to some very old HD455's that I have, however the 601s sound brighter (for piano, anyway).   The 601s are supposed to be very accurate in terms of presenting a true sound, without colouring it.

I think I was hearing the 595's working properly for a while ;^) and I *preferred* it's sound out of everything when playing unedited Pianoteq presets.

With the 601s the bass notes in Pianoteq have lost some oomph and I miss that so I'll be *adding* a bit of bass EQ.

Note that I compared the sound from the 601s connected to both a dedicated headphone amp, and the headphone output from my NAD 320BEE hi-fi amp - I couldn't hear the slightest difference.

Haven't bothered testing them on my laptop - they're 120ohms so probably won't be loud enough.

These headphones look very different to anything I've ever owned before - they wreak of quality and they look more like something you'd see in a BBC studio 20 years ago.  I love them!!

Greg.

Last edited by skip (12-03-2009 03:17)

Re: Headphones with Pianoteq?

GLad you found something you like Greg! I just read a few reviews of them and the do sound excellent, they look very cool too! As you said their impedence is too high for me but they do give another nudge towards the K240s which are rated at 55ohms.

Thanks for posting!