Topic: High Mid Bass

Hello everyone!

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...20FIle.mp3


I finished a very long Post today for this file where I discribed all I've noticed while programming PTQ.
On my own fault I lost it while submitting it. I confess I'm too lazy to write it all again. (was very long)

Maybe more, later...

This file is made of PTQ with 3 instances of different presets. (C1 + C2 Concert)

Last edited by azrael4 (16-01-2009 12:24)

Re: High Mid Bass

Hi Again!

First of all I’ve to say that the uploaded file is an result of programming 3 instances of PTQ. One Split zone is for Bass region, one for mid/treble and one for overall 88 keys.
So this is an result. Not a perfect one or even very good. I’m just trying to find out what is possible  with PTQ and where the limits are for me. When ever I change parameters, starting with PTQ presets I find something interesting but also find something getting worse. So I started trying it with Split zones and layers. I want to share some thoughts now.

What ever I did, there was something like a typical PTQ sound an every preset. (from Erard to C2 Concert) Changing Overtones had no effect on that. As otheres also recognized, changing overtones doesn’t work well for the whole range of 88 keys. ( this is why I started using split zones)

During programming I recognized:

1)    Quadratic Effect parameter could be much more sensitive on velocity. It does effect the lower and the upper keys nearly the same (which I don’t really want)

2)    The fundamental can’t be easily controlled by any of the parameters. ( I would like to have something like the PTQ EQ for the fundamental)

3)    The Impedance/Cutoff section is hard to control with the actual slider steps. Is the impedance the same for all strings?

4)    No control over the development of the Overtone spectrum ( could something like an ADSR-Envelope help?)

5)    Unison With is not really good for the Bass Notes.

6)    Are there only Global Resonances when Pedal is down? (For me it is too much when Pedal is down)

7)    When the strikes become hard it sounds like thinning out the notes. ( to my ears)

8)    If you lower the Overtones the “playable” dynamic “feels” to increase. (Which I like)

9)    Playing PTQ is very different from listening to it.

10)    Hammer noise is too “boomy” (extra EQ would help)

11)    Without Hammer noise Where is the attac? I miss something there (can’t explain what)

I really like PTQ for its playability and its instrumental feeling. All I’ve listed above are things I mentioned while working with it. No Judging.
The new Pro Version may change many of the mentioned things I hope it doesn’t change the instrumental feeling of this great software!

At the end I like to say that I would have preferred to write this in German. It is not so easy to explain all that thoughts in English for me. (maybe I did fail at all)

Equipment: PC Dualcore (2,4Ghz); TC Konnekt8; Dynaudio BM5; Steinberg Nuendo
I can use 4 to 5 Instances of PTQ with latency of 128 samples. Polyphony (pes)

Last edited by azrael4 (18-01-2009 10:37)

Re: High Mid Bass

Hi azrael, some replies to your questions:

1)    Quadratic Effect parameter could be much more sensitive on velocity. It does effect the lower and the upper keys nearly the same (which I don’t really want)

The quadratic effect is more sensitive in the bass notes than in the high register because there are more overtones. The sensitivity to velocity cannot be changed, the effect being quadratic (else it would be cubic or something else…). Note that you can listen more specifically to this effect by setting the dynamics slider to 0. In that situation, there is no more amplitude variation, only timbre variation, and you can hear the quadratic effect coming in when velocity increases.

2)    The fundamental can’t be easily controlled by any of the parameters. ( I would like to have something like the PTQ EQ for the fundamental)

It is controlled by the first slider in the voicing section. But it is a matter of fact that when one pushes it too much, then the sound becomes very dull, because the other overtones are then of course relatively too low. Moving it a few dB should be sufficient in general. To add more bass feeling, it might be better to increase a few more lower overtones than only the fundamental.

3)    The Impedance/Cutoff section is hard to control with the actual slider steps. Is the impedance the same for all strings?

No, it is not the same for all strings, it is higher in the upper range. But the slider does not control the absolute impedance value, it comes as a multiplication factor of the current impedance. In a future product, this multiplication factor will be adjustable note by note.

4)    No control over the development of the Overtone spectrum ( could something like an ADSR-Envelope help?)

This will also be available in a future product (as for all other parameters)

5)    Unison With is not really good for the Bass Notes.

Depending on the presets, the extreme bass notes may have only one string (the C2 has 2 strings in the lowest notes, the M1 has one).

6)    Are there only Global Resonances when Pedal is down? (For me it is too much when Pedal is down)

Global Resonance affects the sound both with pedal up and down. Of course the resonance is not the same in both cases, it is longer when pedal is down.

7)    When the strikes become hard it sounds like thinning out the notes. ( to my ears)

This is part of the things that we are working on for the next version.

8)    If you lower the Overtones the “playable” dynamic “feels” to increase. (Which I like)

9)    Playing PTQ is very different from listening to it.

I agree. This is not particular to Pianoteq though. I have the feeling that when one plays a piano software, one wants more volume (same volume as if one had a real acoustic piano under the fingers), a dryer sound and (much) more dynamics than when listening (because we are so used to listen to compressed recordings where the dynamics can be lowered to only a few dB).

10)    Hammer noise is too “boomy” (extra EQ would help)

11)    Without Hammer noise Where is the attac? I miss something there (can’t explain what)

I think that the attack feeling is global: it’s not located in a particular part of the sound, each part brings its own contribution and the attack comes from the combination of all these different contributions.

Re: High Mid Bass

Hi Guillaume: to point 3), "note by note" is very fine but I think the user interface should (also) provide a way to select a range of notes (or several), for ease of use. Selecting/drawing some curves would be more intuitive...