Topic: New mid specs--anyone know when these go into effect?

Not just a PianoTeq question, really, but this will affect us all:

Am I right in understanding that the latest midi specs have several hundred more velocity layers? Does anyone know when this new standard is supposed to become standard? (Or has this already happened on new midi keyboards and I'm just that far behind?)

And I have to ask, to further expose my lack of understanding: assuming that there will be a new top-most velocity layer, with each number beneath it representing a smaller increment than in the past, will older keyboards and older software instruments be able to register these smaller steps? Or will they just reinterpret them to the older 0-126 standard?

And, come to think of it, will there have to be a revision of PianoTeq that registers velocities according to this new scale\new set of increments? (Just trying to find new things to worry about...)

Last edited by Jake Johnson (29-07-2008 03:24)

Re: New mid specs--anyone know when these go into effect?

Hi Jake,

If you worry about the MIDI standard because of the Zenph links I gave, don't worry...

According to this :

http://www.paul-lehrman.com/insider/2005/12insider.html

the MIDI files were extended by using unused controller commands :

excerpt:

" The Disklaviers are MIDI instruments, but even with its sub-millisecond accuracy and 127 velocity and volume levels, MIDI can't handle everything the Disklavier is capable of. So Disklaviers use something Yamaha calls “high-resolution MIDI,” which Walker figured out uses non-registered parameter numbers — which are undefined MIDI controller commands — to carry the extra bits for the note commands. “An ordinary sequencer couldn't keep up with this,” he says, “because it would have no idea how to deal with these controllers.”

Because of all the extra data, the data stream becomes too heavy for an ordinary MIDI cable to carry without encountering timing problems. So Walker doesn't bother: “We communicate by loading files onto the piano's hard drive and their computer is connected directly to the piano mechanism. As far as we've been able to see, there is no limitation on how fast the computer can send data.”

This seems then to be limited to Yamaha's Disklavier.

Good thing. We all want the MIDI standard to have its 27th birthday unchanged...

This trick reminds me of the HDCD extension that my NAD CD player supports :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Defin...le_Digital

Re: New mid specs--anyone know when these go into effect?

That did have me worried.

I still can't say that I understand how current keyboards and instruments will react if and when the planned change eventually goes into effect. Will they somehow be able to sense that that highest possible velocity now has a new much higher number, although the velocity will actually be the same? Will they be able to accurately register more than 127 stages?

Re: New mid specs--anyone know when these go into effect?

I don't think I'll worry about this! MIDI has been around for an incredibly long time, and is used on countless bits of gear. It would be insane to introduce incompatible extensions to the standards.

For one thing, I reckon 127 velocity levels is more than adequate, as long as you've got decent velocity curves in software/hardware for both the keyboard and the sound generator. If either are bad (say if the keyboard only outputs 50-100) then you might want more resolution to pull out the detail, but this is a reason to fix the hardware, and not the MIDI standard.

Anyway, the approach suggested by the link above for 10-bit velocity (ie 1024 levels), is to stick the 3 least significant bits in a spare controller and make them subdivide each of the standard levels into 8. So if some "hi-def" MIDI hardware sends velocity 64.25, a "lo-def" MIDI receiver would see 64. I bet nobody would notice the difference.

Re: New mid specs--anyone know when these go into effect?

They have added a kludge for hi-def velocity to the MIDI spec by just using a couple of previously-undefined bytes to carry the info.

Old instruments won't transmit or respond to these bytes so this won't make any difference to them

The thing is, using an extra 3 bytes per note (or whatever it is), at the same protocol speed, is hardly gonna improve things much for live performance, as it'll just slow down the timing and accuracy of note placement...

Re: New mid specs--anyone know when these go into effect?

So we'll eventually be seeing an entirely new set of midi keyboards that do respond to these 1000+ layers? Hm...I wonder how current software will act. Somehow I doubt that it will be able to automatically adjust. To take advantage of new specs, developers will have to create entirely new versions, and users will have to buy both a new keyboard and a new version of the software or an upgrade?

I'm not sure what to think about the advantages. I can see that, with 24 bit or higher sampling and 1000+ layers, there could be an increase in realism.

Re: New mid specs--anyone know when these go into effect?

FYI:  Here's a couple of excellent, if not a bit dated, articles on MIDI, USB and latency by a Paul D. Lehrman:
http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_new_mill...index.html
http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_bigger_b...index.html
I mention these because this topic got me interested in finding out the pros & cons of USB vs MIDI, as well as where the future lies.  It looks like the future is firewire, though these articles are 7 years old and I don't see IEEE-1394 installed on any keyboards yet (though definitely in MIDI interfaces, usually combined with an audio interface)  It seems that USB has timing issues that make it less accurate than the traditional serial port interface or firewire.  Does anyone know if there is really a difference between using a USB cable connection between your keyboard and computer or using a MIDI cable connection out of a keyboard into a USB MIDI interface ?  Also, with regard to the extra MIDI controller assignments used to expand the velocity range, etc., -one, it probably wouldn't slow things down much if there were only the one or just a few instruments being sequenced and, two, using USB (or firewire) you could have multiple streams of the MIDI protocol going, like multiple virtual MIDI cables with additional MIDI channels.  And this is would be completely downwardly compatible to the original MIDI spec.  Hopefully, because I want to be using my Chroma Polaris all the way to the glue factory.........

"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."