Topic by kensuguro

  • Avatar
  • kensuguro
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 13-06-2008
  • Posts: 72

Topic: Are there plans to model other pianos?

Hi, I've been following the pianoteq technology since when it was announced, and was curious where it was heading.

I've checked out the default model from the demo, and also see that there is a bechstein and sebastien addon.  I was wondering of there are plans to do more models? (like standard steinway and bosendorfers)

I'm waiting for more models because while the current models are very responsive and all, the end result sounds extremely mellow.  It could be a technical limitation, and it could be a personal preference thing, so I was wondering perhaps it's just the specific model that I didn't like.  It's the initial striking part that stands out to me as being very synthetic. 

I have a strong background in DSP, and I've tweaked all the settings on the demo with all my knowledge, but couldn't get a tone I liked.  Or at least couldn't get the tone to be correct throughout the entire range.  I'm pretty sure that if cpu was unlimited, or some sort of limitation was lifted, the results could be great..  it's amazing we even got this far.  It's one of those things where if you see the goal, even if it's far far away, you want to rush to it.

So, I am just itching to go all pianoteq, pending this little thing.  I hope newer models come along and hit the tone that I like.

Also, one more question if anyone, preferably someone involved in dev could give me insight, it'll be great.  I'm wondering why pianoteq requires so much tweaking.  It seems to me, that the whole point of having modeled pianos was that you had one authentic sound source, and perhaps all the user has to do is to choose a mic perspective, and be done with the setup.  Is that not the idea behind all this?  Or have I misunderstood?  It seems to me, that there is quite a lot of tweaking going on here..  much more than I'd expect on a well regulated real piano.

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

  • Avatar
  • Philippe Guillaume
  • Admin
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-04-2007
  • Posts: 5,243

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

Hi Kensuguro. Yes there are plans to create more models... In fact, there is a lot of development going on for the moment so we can promise you that the future is bright indeed.

Concerning tweaking, there are many different musical situations, many tastes, thus we think it is good to allow each person to adapt the piano sound to the music, the listener, the room... Moreover it allows to build new sounds for music creation.

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by Beto-Music

  • Avatar
  • Beto-Music
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 02-05-2007
  • Posts: 2,614

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

Philippe, I need to say that you are killing us of curiosidty  about the upcoming Pianoteq version  :-)

  I guess if there is any new historic add-on with 88 keys, close to contemporany piano sound, like the the Sebastien Erard Add-on and Bechstein add-on, in the upcoming version.

   Bechstein it's still a trademark.  Have you changed idea about realise  models like Steinway, Bosendorfer, Fazioli, if the model is around about 85 to 100 years old ?

guillaume wrote:

Hi Kensuguro. Yes there are plans to create more models... In fact, there is a lot of development going on for the moment so we can promise you that the future is bright indeed.

Concerning tweaking, there are many different musical situations, many tastes, thus we think it is good to allow each person to adapt the piano sound to the music, the listener, the room... Moreover it allows to build new sounds for music creation.

Last edited by Beto-Music (15-06-2008 16:21)

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

  • Avatar
  • Philippe Guillaume
  • Admin
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-04-2007
  • Posts: 5,243

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

Hi Alberto. There will be further models in the future but we cannot give any details for now. Make sure that you subscribe to our newsletter to receive the latest announcements.

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by obiwan

  • Avatar
  • obiwan
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 03-07-2008
  • Posts: 25

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

kensuguro wrote:

I'm wondering why pianoteq requires so much tweaking.  It seems to me, that the whole point of having modeled pianos was that you had one authentic sound source, and perhaps all the user has to do is to choose a mic perspective, and be done with the setup.  Is that not the idea behind all this?  Or have I misunderstood?  It seems to me, that there is quite a lot of tweaking going on here..  much more than I'd expect on a well regulated real piano.

I like tweaking - and so do a lot of other people by the sound of it. - We're never completely satisfied. - I'm always hearing 'If only it sounded a bit brighter, or it sustained for longer, or  I could hear more of the string resonance...' etc. etc. - We're always after the holy grail of the perfect piano. (If it exists that is!). Each person's perspective of what the perfect sound is, is different - so the ability to finely tailor the sound to your liking gives you ultimate flexibility.

Plus - as PianoTeq is not limited by mechanical restraints it also means it's capable (in theory) of going well beyond the current technical limitations of acoustic piano design. (I mean - how practical is a 20ft grand?)

Reply by olepro

  • Avatar
  • olepro
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Copenhagen, Denmark
  • Registered: 22-06-2007
  • Posts: 282

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

My hope of a future add on is the sound of a good old, not too perfect upright piano.

Personally i'm pretty tired of "perfect" sounding pianos in general.
Sitting in front of an old upright there is so much going on from the mechanics, the soundboard, pedals and the beating from the not in perfect tune strings.
Smack the keys and release them with out pressing the sustain pedal and hear for how long the strings and soundboard goes on before it rings out !

I want THAT sound from Pianoteq :-) if it's possible at all...

But i still love Pianoteq as it is, don't get me wrong.... i was the first who bought it by the way ;-)

olepro's Website

Reply by feline1

  • Avatar
  • feline1
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 09-01-2008
  • Posts: 601

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

I agree, olepro.

The problem with virtually every piano sample library ever released is that they are always too boring and clean and trying to be "perfect".

The excellent thing about Pianoteq is that you can get so much acoustic-style character back, from all the interactions of the model... but like you, I would love to hear an even more beat up and battered old upright!

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

  • Avatar
  • Philippe Guillaume
  • Admin
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-04-2007
  • Posts: 5,243

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

I fully understand the wish of "unperfect" instruments, however among the several add-ons that we offer, aren't some of them like the pianoforte's or the Bechstein quite "unperfect" already? Just asking this because I was just working with the Bechstein these days and it hit me again that it has a very uneven sound with many defaults... Moreover, if you detune it slightly, it's far from being a "clean" piano, isn't it? Two more suggestions to get away from a clean sound: use other temparaments than the equal one and increase the global resonance.

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by Cellomangler

  • Avatar
  • Cellomangler
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Iuka, MS
  • Registered: 03-05-2008
  • Posts: 221

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

feline1 wrote:

The problem with virtually every piano sample library ever released is that they are always too boring and clean and trying to be "perfect" ....I would love to hear an even more beat up and battered old upright!

This is getting into the area of "cabinet" modeling, sort of like what has been done with guitar cabinet emulation and microphone modeling.  I look forward to putting my speaker system into an old upright as I believe a good bit of the "character" of the rough upright sound will be reflected in the acoustics of the wood, soundboard, etc.  With the old mechanism out, but the strings left in -and somewhat in tune and with partial dampening- there could be all kinds of nuances generated by the sympathetic and resonant voices from Pianoteq.  Particularly because I use a sub woofer, which really does get moved -and moves- with Pianoteq.  There'd be a lot of considerations such as whether to mount the speakers directly on the soundboard or projecting onto it, etc.  But this is another topic (sorry) and defeats the portability and direct injection for recording.  But I think this is the type of modeling you are looking for -cabinet modeling with errant resonances.  Nothing wrong with dreaming, 'long as the cows get milked.

"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

Cellomangler's Website

Reply by feline1

  • Avatar
  • feline1
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 09-01-2008
  • Posts: 601

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

guillaume wrote:

I fully understand the wish of "unperfect" instruments, however among the several add-ons that we offer, aren't some of them like the pianoforte's or the Bechstein quite "unperfect" already? Just asking this because I was just working with the Bechstein these days and it hit me again that it has a very uneven sound with many defaults... Moreover, if you detune it slightly, it's far from being a "clean" piano, isn't it? Two more suggestions to get away from a clean sound: use other temparaments than the equal one and increase the global resonance.

yes, definately - I love the old "pianoforte" sounds - they are like Rentaghost ;-)
(you will not know what this means unless you were a child in 1970s Britain lol )

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

  • Avatar
  • Philippe Guillaume
  • Admin
  • Offline
  • Registered: 25-04-2007
  • Posts: 5,243

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

feline1 wrote:

yes, definately - I love the old "pianoforte" sounds - they are like Rentaghost ;-) (you will not know what this means unless you were a child in 1970s Britain lol )

Then I guess you need to explain us what/who is Rentaghost

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by feline1

  • Avatar
  • feline1
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 09-01-2008
  • Posts: 601

Re: Are there plans to model other pianos?

lol it was just a silly old children's programme on the BBC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentaghost
it had a great theme tune, with a 'ghostly' treated piano/clavichord type sound.