Topic: Hammer noise quality

Hi Pianoteq ,
First thank U , that U make some changes in updated Pianoteq , what I asked before .
But one thing was without answer , - about hammer noise . I understand ( if i'm not make mistake ) ,
that hammer noise is sample , and this sample have not so much high  rezolution , because if I will make
hammer noise level more than , 1,3 , it become audible noise tails , what I mean ,- I'm nothing have bad to say about noise tails , but these tails , when go down in level , they have audible quality degradation , like not sample noise , but like digital hiss . It's very audible , when Pianoteq sound is clear (32 bit) and near we have to compare "digital noisy, not sample hiss sound" , it like sounds separate layer , like Pianoteq make clear sound and somebody make near 8 bit sample noise, with audible digital degradation tails . In good headphones and wide frequecy range speakers it's audible . Or at last , if not possible to change this noise characteristics , maybe it's possible to make voltage controlled filter , which reduce audible digital degradation , by cutting off high frequency of noise tails ...
And how about  capability instead of reverb mashine in Pianoteq , to make reverberator who have capability to import impulse responces ( in .WAV format) from different ambient places .... It will be very useful future .
I hope that U will understand my bad english . And I'm very thank U for good software , and Your attention to customers .

Re: Hammer noise quality

I wonder if what you're experiencing is reverb early reflection.  If you turn off reverberation, do you still hear the distortion?

If you do, try moving the room size slider all the way to the left (small).

Re: Hammer noise quality

Be quiet my friend...
I'm not using reverb at all , because it is not so much good like I need . I was talking about hammer noise sample quality , not about other pianoteq sound tails after attack .. & so on. I have enough good equipment to hear that things , and to hear from where  they are coming . I only need to have real noiseless sound if it is 32 bit ... and when I hear hammer noise not good sample , or maybe not good synthesized hammer noise , with digitall degradation hiss , I'm only ask , maybe is possible to repair this "mistake" ... If somebody don't know or don't hear about what I said , make hammer noise full volume , try to reduce all possible sound from piano strings , record this sound , normalize & listen , - is this 32 bit hammer noise sample or sound ?... That's what I was talking about ...
About reverbs I said that is good to have more better reverb engine , with possibility to import (in wav format) impulse responces of ambients for more flexible reverb sound , for egz. like is in Voxengo reverbs or Sony Sound forge Acoustic Mirror ....

Re: Hammer noise quality

Thank you for your inputs. We will take them into account in the next version, like we do for the other comments in the forum. Concerning convolution reverb, I am not sure that the good place for it is inside a VST instrument, as you may want to use it in a mix for several instruments, and as it is quite CPU greedy, it is maybe better to have it external.

Re: Hammer noise quality

Yes , about impulse response reverb U are right ... It takes too much CPU . But if in standalone version will be capability to change keyboard response for egz. make piano not 88 keys , but less for making split , like some part of keyboard playing pianoteq , other part to play other stand alone synth  ( because I can open in one time more standalone synth's , ant they all are playing , it's good if need to have more layered sound ), it will be more useful , than make triks with host softwares like Cantabile . And I don't know  whose fault is, but in lite Cantabile  version ( maybe because it's free...)  I found not good one thing , that when I load Pianoteq vsti plugin and load another (for egz.) Lounge Lizard el.piano , Pianoteq starts to play notes in very strange way sometimes , I can't find where is mistake , but it sounds , like if I play in different velocity ranges , it sounds like somebody ( maybe some controllers send mistake comand ) cut notes longines , like if I start to use damp pedal on piano . In some velocity levels pianoteq recieve ( damp , cut . or make shorter sustain notes ) comands which make sounds very short, muted . It happands randomly . There is no cracks or pops , but only notes sometimes gently become muted . Even if I will load in two racks 2 pianoteq's it happends same . I'm not found these mistakes if I play pianoteq , in stand alone or play thru other host programs . I think , that there is problem in MDI filtrers , maybe key release velocity or something other parameters , mistakely mute some sounds randomly . My PC have  enough of resources to play these plugins : Windows XP Quad Core 6600 Pentium IV , Ram - 4 GB . Western Digital  Raptor 10000 p\m  HD's , Asio drivers  and etc.... Pianoteq plugin work in polyphony up 256 voices .... it not stealing voices , but muting sometimes . There is no cracks or other bad sounds when it  happends when not enough PC resources , there is something happends with MIDI . I was asked Cantabile people about this things , thy don't know what it is ... But it happend only with Pianoteq . Not with other soft synth . Maybe , I think somebody had same problem ...

Re: Hammer noise quality

Voxos:

Are you saying that you load both Lounge Lizard and PianoTeq, wanting to play them both at the same time as though they were layered? Or are you creating a split, with part of the keyboard devoted to Lounge Lizard and the other half devoted to Pianoteq?

In either case, could the problem be with the way you have the non-note events set to be handled? Usually, one wants non-note events to be consistent across the keyboard, so that different instruments on different splits react the same way to the pedal being pressed down. However, you may not want this, since Lounge Lizard and Pianoteq are such different instruments. In other words, could Lounge Lizard be sending commands to the PianoTeq preset or rack? Try checking the Notes only box so the non-note events are ignored.  Let us know what you find.

Re: Hammer noise quality

Hi , & thank U for answering,
Like I said before , in stand alone , when I open at the same time , more ,than 1 plugin ( pianoteq , lounge lizard , Korg plugins & others ) in same time , I have no problems at all , they playing  & make good layered sounds , yes , no problems . But when I open pianoteq in Cantabile , & make split , & no difference I can open 2 Pianoteq's , & make split it happends , about what I said i previous letter , sometimes in left hand sounds become shortened , or  gently muted in longines . Again I said , that no different in write hand is different engine plugin or same pianoteq . O.K. any way if U wil ask I can send to U MP3 sample , how it sounds , or file with my splits in Cantabile . For that , I ask , maybe is possible to make filters in Pianoteq or something other, to have keyboard range adjustments . I can play Pianoteq ( with own adjusted key range ) & other opened Plugin with different key range & have good splits , with no using Cantabile at all . Because , like I said before , my PC playing , different standalone  Plugins in one time without any pops & cracks , & I have good, beautiful  layers , I can play them or at last sample them & have good sounds in my sampler . But I don't have a split from Pianoteq  , it plays all keyboard range ... I understand , that U maybe laughting from my suggestions , but to have this future in Pianoteq is not bad . Thank U , that U read me & sorry for english .

Re: Hammer noise quality

I don't have this problem, but I haven't tried to create many splits with different VSTI's on each split. Does anyone else have this problem?

My impression is that the problem is caused by cpu load limitations--that Cantabile may need to be able to better call more instruments to do what you want, but I'm not sure. My focus is on getting a good piano sound using splits. Cantabile and PianoTeq work really well together towards that end.

But the problem you're having sounds serious. It may be more of a Cantabile problem?

Re: Hammer noise quality

O.K. Thank U, I will not ask anything more . I see U don't want to uderstand ,what I said . We go around , and around . And about CPU , did these PC capacity is not enough for two Pianoteq's and Cantabile ????!!!  - Windows XP Quad Core 6600 Pentium IV , Ram - 4 GB . Western Digital  Raptor 10000 p\m  HD's x2 , with acess time 2.8ms , Asio drivers  and etc....
Per 15 years working in studio I don't have issues like this , what I was talking about before .For that I ask Cantabile engineers , - no answer ... I ask Pianoteq people , - ... again answer ..."Cantabile and PianoTeq work really well together towards that end."
It's easy to say , like ... we don't have any problems , maybe your CPU too much busy.... I understand , that nobody needs to have headache with  stupid customers , better to blame CPU , than to make little update software , or to explain how to make easy adjustable ,- reduce piano keyboard range for egz. from C3 - C7 . without any host softwares. Just how to make this inside in PianoTeq . That's all and I will never distorb U in future .... Thank U .

Re: Hammer noise quality

Hi Voxas

I hope you understand that most people answering here are just users... just like you - we won't know everything and just like to help if we can ....

That being said.. Pianoteq has a function called 'CPU Overload Detection' - you can find it on the Pianoteq screen under the options-triangle...

When Pianoteq finds that the CPU is almost overloaded it seems to try and make things simpler to be able to run the program..
The lower notes are the most difficult notes to calculate - those will probably be 'shortened' first...
Try to switch off this function and see what happens..

Further if you don't have that switched on already, try to switch on 'Multicore Rendering' that you can also find at the options-triangle..
It's possible that Pianoteq now only works with one of your cores instead of using the full computer-capacity...
then it would think the computer is overloaded I guess...

I hope that works!!!

cheers
Hans

Re: Hammer noise quality

Oh my God!!!!! People , U think, that I have this configuration PC , like I wrote before , and I don't know what to do with this equipment !!!??? Everything is ON , - multicore renderings , PC is adjusted for best performance !!! I don't have any CPU overlodes , never , I have latency 1 ms only , even I play 4 - 6 VSTi standalone plugins at once , my friends !!! If U read carefully all posts before, I said , that I don't have any CPU overloads ! No cracks , no pops , nothing , just shortened decay sounds sometimes , even I play only 1 note polyphonic with different velocities, only ... Not talk to me about these simple things , like ... " maybe not enough RAM, or
RAM speed , or HD speed or cash  , or Processor cash memory not enogh , or like adjust virtual memory, or defragmentation & so on , & so on ... , " , -- forget about this, my PC's works perfect , like in Alien's base , I just talk , & ask about bugs in softwares , because only these 2 softwares in pair , - Cantabile , and Pianoteq works like I was talking before in previous posts . Even I open in Cantabile 2 pianoteq's , for making split on keyboard , I have shortened decay sometimes , feels like I'm I using damphing pedal  on left side split , with no different how much polyphony I play 1 note , or 100 .

Re: Hammer noise quality

Have you tried downloading the split I posted at

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/uploads.p...c462cab544

This Cantabile file has the pedal set so it will play on all of the four splits. You'll of course want to load your own fxp's into each instance of Pianoteq and replace one of the instances of Cantabile with the other instrument. Let us know if this doesn't get good results for you.

Sorry if we're going round and round. My intention is to help, but my own knowledge is limited.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (12-02-2008 16:31)

Re: Hammer noise quality

Hi Voxas

The shortened decay is something that as far as I understand, can be a 'side-effect' of having Pianoteq's 'CPU Overload detection' switched on...
but I was not saying your computer would not be powerful enough... I just wanted to rule out that Pianoteq only uses one core and would then THINK that your computer is not powerful enough...
Questions about CPU performance etc. are not as obvious to everyone - even if they have powerful machines, that's why I asked...


Further I am on Mac so I can't help you with Cantabile...

Re: Hammer noise quality

O.K. if U'r cycled asking me about CPU , when normal playing CPU is 0.5 - 3% , on hard playing , with sustain pedal , lots of arpeggio CPU is 4 - 7% . No any pops & cracks , how it happends , when not enough CPU , or small latency , small buffers , not enough Ram capacity or speed , .... Just gentle reduce decay longines to 0.5 sec. , sometimes , randomly . & with Cantabile in pair only. Always Multicore Rendering is ON ., for that I have Quad Core PC .

Re: Hammer noise quality

Hi Voxas

Are you sending out midi on all channels of your keyboard?
And do you receive on all channels in Pianoteq and other plugins??

If so, could you try to set all used plugins to separate midi-channels to see if that has a different effect? You would need to send out in layers from your keyboard then...

Maybe there is some midi-interference of some sort???

You are using Pianoteq in stereo I assume? Using it in mono could perhaps give some phasing-problems that could perhaps give some strange effects leading to loss of decay....

It is very hard pinpointing this problem this way... sorry

Re: Hammer noise quality

Hi, thank U my friend Jake Johnson ,  now I'm happy , I use Your file . No everything is fixed . Maybe Cantabile version 1.1 has bugs or something .... I reinstall V1.2 . Your file play good . Any way thank U very much !

Re: Hammer noise quality

Hi for Creart,
Thank U , sorry for waste Your time . Now everything is fixed . This was not phase or MIDI interferences ( I have hardware MIDI analyser & check MIDI data ) . This was maybe Cantabile problem , when I  install v1.2 evrything is O.K. Thank U .

Re: Hammer noise quality

Voxas

Version 1.1 of Cantabile wasn't corrupted. The ability to have non-note parameters, like the pedal, available across all of the splits only became available in version 1.2. (I wrote the developer asking for the fix, which he made in about two days as part of the update.)

Re: Hammer noise quality

Hi Voxas

questions about problems are never a waste of time!
I'm glad it's solved!

good luck