Topic: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

The Fatar VMK-188 Plus keyboard I described in this thread  http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=73 comes with a single sewing-machine type dynamic pedal. No respectable pianist would be seen dead with it. Pianoteq spoils us with four pedalling opportunities, but quadruple pedal accessories are as frequent as unicorns. Next best, a triple pedal will be of interest. There follows my user review of one such rare specimen.

I am of course biased (in favour of Pianoteq!). More relevant, I paid money for these gadgets; budget was not really a constraint for me, but I decline to buy into a brand for its logo (viz J.Baudrillard: Towards a Critique of the Political Economy of the Sign). I am an amateur musician whose main instrument is not the piano, and whose hands-on/feet-on exposure of famous makes is limited. Don't ask for my rendition of Gaspard de la nuit, although occasionally I try to work on the Koln Concert.

FATAR VFP-10

In summary: a cost-effective and robust triple pedal unit which works well with Pianoteq but only if it is compatible with your keyboard controller.

There is an episode in a Carlos Castenada book in which his mentors in the art of the transcendental, poor Yaqui Indians Dons Juan and Genaro, chide the post-graduate anthropology student for his persistent habit of conceptualizing his experiences. They compare him to other figures who rely on some artefact for their self-identity. The details are now mostly lost in my memory, but the similes get cruder and cruder ("like a nun without her crucifix"; "like a whore without her knickers") until the two Dons fall about in hysterical laughter.  A piano, we must admit, nevertheless, is less than a piano for want of pedals. (Whether a pianist is not a pianist unless he or she doing something with their feet is something else).

Fatar, manufacterers of keyboards under their own Fatar and Studiologic brands, and suppliers of OEM keyboard units, also produce a range of accessory pedals (http://www.fatar.com/Pages/Chassy.html).  Pianoteq players will be most interested in the triple sustain pedals VFP3, which are available in two versions: VFP3-10 and VFP-15. They differ only in the matter of "polarity", the 3-10 being described as of the "momentary open" type, and the 3-15  as "momentary closed".  Reasoning that a dynamic pedal should generate increasing values when progressively depressed, I chose the VFP3-10. However, as you will see shortly there is more to the story than this specious logic, and while my setup would have allowed a 3-15 to work, you should not automatically assume either will work in yours.

A crucial feature is that these are passive pedal units. They are not MIDI data controllers;  they do not output MIDI data; and they do not require ancillary power. They are rather simpler - which means also less to go wrong. They are designed for voltage sensing inputs on MIDI keyboards, the keyboard taking on the business of converting the pedal input into a MIDI data stream. I advise consulting your keyboard's documentation on the matter of polarity if pedal input sockets are present. I used a current Fatar VMK series keyboard which allows either pedal polarity to be accommodated via a user configuration setting. You may be out of luck with older keyboards. (For a review of an active MIDI pedal controller, hyper-jump to here http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=7.

The unit arrives in a simple box. You get the pedal unit and  its captive lead. The housing is made of a heavy-duty black plastic of the non-brittle variety - it looks and feels like it will survive a kicking or three.  The pedals have clip-on translucent covers that are removed easily enough but won't fall off when played. The finish on the pedal levers is bright silver(y). The action is decisive - in other words, not featherweight. There is negligible free play movement sideways, which is nice.

Two difficulties immediately confront the expectant user. First, there are three pedal but two plugs. Second, there are no instructions. I got out the electical meter and measured the resistances at the output jacks. Of the two 6.35mm jacks, one is mono and one is stereo. The mono jack measured open circuit with the pedal up, and rapidly decreasing resistance down to 19.6 ohm fully depressed. The stereo jack measured similarly, having lower limits of 25.1 ohm for the tip, and 26.1 ohm for the ring. The excellent news here is that the VFP3 is dynamic on all three pedals, which makes it potentially more versatile than a plain piano pedal emulation. For some reason I had been expecting the left and middle pedals to be simple switches, so was pleasant compensated for the trouble.

It appears the VFP3 with its two jacks was designed for an earlier Fatar controller keyboard, but my VMK-188 Plus has 3 programmable sockets (I presume other VMK models are similar). You have two choices. You can either obtain a stereo-to-mono splitter cable (and in all likelihood you will also need a  stereo female-to-female in-line connector). Or you can get the soldering iron out. The idea of hanging further weight off the input sockets did not appeal, so I removed the stereo plug and soldered on two mono jacks. Gigging musicians may want to give this some attention, as the supplied jacks look to be physically the weakest part of the unit. The length of cable though is sufficient to let you have the pedal unit on the floor and the keyboard at head height - more than adequate for normal humans. With programmable pedal inputs like on the VMK-188 Plus it doesn't matter which jack goes to which socket - the meaning comes from the keyboard configuration.

So, plug in, switch on, exec Pianoteq - and sweet nothing. You will need to instruct your  keyboard to acknowledge the VFP3, unless by chance it has a preset which recognizes a triple pedal of identical characteristics. You will need to create a preset which, for each pedal, specifies: the MIDI transmit channel (your choice - Pianoteq can be instructed to listen on any channel, or on all channels); the Controller number (these will be the standard MIDI numbers for sustain, sostenuto, and una corda pedals that Pianoteq defaults to);  the maximum and minimum controller Data values (say 127 and 0 respectively - to start with, anyway); and possibly the pedal polarity. On a VMK-188 Plus you just press the Edit button and depress a pedal, and the keyboard is smart enough to prompt on its display for the first parameters it needs - generally simpler to do than to explain. (If your keyboard requires pedals of specific polarity, you may not have the option to configure this parameter).

With the keyboard formally introduced to the pedals, I ran the MIDI into the MIDI-OX utility on the computer, and was comforted by the expected stream of Controller numbers and variable values being listed on pressing the pedals.  The data stream looked a bit thin, and the dynamic part of the pedal range resulted in only a small number of Controller messages. However, it looked as if the range of data values was more or less fully represented. I do not know if there was controller data thinning going on. For a dynamic pedal, it has to be said that the amount of pedal travel available for dynamic  output is quite small. That should not be a problem for una corda or sostenuto work.  But it suggested that the sustain pedal would have to prove itself in the playing.

Running with Pianoteq, it was soon apparent I'd fouled up the polarity configuration. This was quickly rectified by switching the keyboard's polarity parameter. In regard to getting going smoothly, Pianoeq itself could not be more helpful (compliments!). Not only can you simulate the correct pedal effect by clicking the on-screen pedals, but PTQ also animates the pedals in sympathy with MIDI controller data it receives. (So you will know immediately if you have an incorrect controller number programmed somewhere). Wait for the on-screen pop-up hints, and you can also specify controller numbers and values should you need to.

What this means is that if your keyboard has a non-standard implementation of pedal MIDI data, Pianoteq can still make use of your pedals. And it goes into listening mode to get the controller numbers being used - no need to find the keyboard manual (which disappeared long ago anyway). You might also need to specify to Pianoteq what data values represent pedal activity. Does all of this mean you could get away with using pedals of the "wrong" polarity? For pedals which operate musically as a binary switch, the answer is yes. For a variable ouput pedal however you would have an inverted dynamic function. That is, slight depression of the sustain pedal would produce the greatest sustain effect from Pianoteq - it would be like wearing inverting spectacles. To fix this you would need to resort to  a software MIDI data translator utility to map the data values to the inverse in the range 0..127. (Or maybe Pianoteq is already equipped to perform this inverse function - can someone confirm?).

It would seem I have had to do a lot of work to get these pedals going. In honesty, the time was no more than that expended winding up to this stage of the review. MIDI is notorious for requiring molly-coddling anyway. But now that we have Pianoteq's on-screen pedals dancing in perfect time with our feet,  it's time to consider the sonic result.

Clearly Pianoteq is less than a piano without pedal input. Sostenuto works as expected. Una corda can be adjusted in Pianoteq (due corde? mezza corda? un po' di corda?) to taste. The moot issue is the effectiveness of the sustain pedal action. And here I confess to a lifelong exposure to knackered "loud" pedals on knackered pianos. If there are pianists reading this capable of a controlled tenth-pedalling, you will have to ascertain the expressive adequacy of the VFP3 for yourselves.  While the data range it produces can be tweaked using a utility like Bome's MIDI Translator to whatever mapping you require for expressiveness, the factor is rather the pedal mechanism itself, and whether it has the matching degree of operating finesse. I found it satisfactory. Here the price might affect the picture.

The VFP3 can be bought at a good discount at present over the Internet by searching for prices. It is a no-brainer if you want a functional triple pedal unit for Pianoteq and your keyboard has the requisite connectivity. It seems robust. It works. Concert pianists with fastidious footwork may want to research the field further. If you are an amateur pianist and don't mind the lack of domestic aesthetics,  I can confirm it does the business.  At the worst you will have something you can throw repeatedly in the direction of the cat/fox/coyote/dingo which is messing in your back yard. More likely you will get to charm it like Orpheus with sweet music (just avoid Klavierstucke XI).

Re: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

Hmm thanks for the really thorough review but the Fatar website says this:

VFP2: Switch Control Pedal. Gold or Nichel finish commae. Rubber Contact open at rest. Supplied with cable and stereo jack plug. Natural single box.
VFP2-D: Dynamic Control Pedal. Gold or Nichel finish commae. Rubber Contact open at rest on the left side and potentiometer control on the right side. Supplied with cable and stereo jack plug. Natural sigle box.
VFP3: Switch Control Pedal. Gold or Nichel finish commae. Rubber Contact open at rest. Supplied with cable and stereo jack plug. Natural single box.
VFP3-D: Dynamic Control Pedal. Gold or Nichel finish commae. Rubber Contact open at rest on the central and left side and potentiometer control on the right side. Supplied with cable and stereo jack plug. Natural sigle box.
VFP3-2D: Dynamic Control Pedal. Gold or Nichel finish commae. Rubber Contact open at rest on the central side and potentiometer control on the right and left side. Supplied with cable and stereo jack plug. Natural sigle box.

So, potentiometer is their word for continuous. If I'm correct I find it weird that all three pedals produce continuous values when Fatar states that at most 2 are continuous (dynamic) for the VFP3-2D. So which one did you review?
I have an m-audio keystation pro 88 with 2 sustain inputs and 1 expression input (all accepting continuous pedals), if I do the soldering like you did it will work very well I believe. I hope the shop I'm going to buy it sells me the right one :-)

I can do a review of the keystation if anyone likes, I must say there is 1 thing wrong with it; some keys make a mechanical noise (not very loud) but annoying and I'm planning to get it replaced by the same model but without this issue.

Re: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

Let's put aside the techie stuff for a moment... do you achieve half-sustain effect with the pedal? It wasn't clear from your post. In fact, judging by your description I'd wager it's not continuous at all. I once got the VFP3-10 myself, and it was clearly NOT continuous on ANY of the three pedals. I even opened it up to check, and no potentiometers in sight. I asked them about it and they said that what I really want is the VFP3-D, which wan't available at the time (about a year ago). Googling the VFP3-D turns up absolutely nothing, except for Fatar's own website, which tells me that it's still unavailable.

So are you sure you got the VFP3-10 and not the VFP3-D or VFP3-2D? If you did in fact get the VFP3-D or VFP3-2D, then pray tell where!!!

I think the best way to know for sure would be for you to open it up.

EDIT: I just realized, another (much easier) way to check is to see if you can get Pianoteq's graphic of the sustain pedal to depress halfway and hold it there. If you see it go all the way down and then all the way back up, and can't get it to hold somewhere in between, then it's not continuous.

Last edited by moshuajusic (23-10-2009 19:04)

Re: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

hyper.real has clearly measured the impedance to be variable on all 3 pedals, 2 of them having even lower impedance when fully depressed than the 1st one. If only hyper.real would specify the exact type!

Couldn't you measure the impedance Josh? Do you have a volt/impedance meter? I have but I don't have the Fatar pedal :-)

Last edited by nutela (24-10-2009 21:22)

Re: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

I have a multimeter. How the hell do I measure the resistance? Basically, which probe goes where? (This is why I said "let's put aside the techie stuff... can you get a half damper effect?" )

Last edited by moshuajusic (25-10-2009 01:04)

Re: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

I dismantled to unit and the miniature circuit boards on each pedal sub-component appear to be identical. The potentiometers have a linear travel (not rotary). Everything else - as per my original post. My unit is labeled VP3-10, and may be an older version of pedal, as it appears in connection with the Fatar's Studiologic keyboards that preceded the VMK series.

In particular,

The [MIDI] data stream looked a bit thin, and the dynamic part of the pedal range resulted in only a small number of Controller messages. However, it looked as if the range of data values was more or less fully represented. I do not know if there was controller data thinning going on. For a dynamic pedal, it has to be said that the amount of pedal travel available for dynamic  output is quite small. That should not be a problem for una corda or sostenuto work.  But it suggested that the sustain pedal would have to prove itself in the playing.

Taking the sustain pedal as the example, in Pianoteq's control panel (v3) the pedal flips between full up and full down. You can right-click the pedal graphic, which opens a small dialog box which shows the pedal value that Ptq is handling. At present Ptq displays this value in the range 0.0 to 1.0 (rather than 0 to 127 as encoded in the input MIDI data stream). This box shows that Ptq is handling intermediate values between 0.0 and 1.0 when the pedals are operated.

The production of intermediate values is difficult to control, as the corresponding pedal travel is very small. Should this be better? Probably yes - as a fact about the device. Is it good enough to play on? Well, do you prefer to drive your piano like a sports car or like an articulated truck?

Re: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

^ Even more evidence that the VFP3-10 is not dynamic at all. Sounds like these  "intermediate values" are artifacts. (If I were tech-savvy I could probably explain it or at least use appropriate terminology.) I tried probing the plug on my switch pedals with my multimeter, and just like yours, I get a variety of "readings" in the "dynamic" portion of its travel, which is a very small distance, again much like you find on yours. These pedals are 100% certainly switch, so I know these readings are misleading (for lack of a better word, thanks to my n00b tech wherewithal).

Half-damper is easy to achieve and test on any truly dynamic pedal. If you can't get the effect, then your pedals are not dynamic. The easiest test like I mentioned would be to see if you can get Pianoteq's graphic of the sustain pedal to stop somewhere in between and hold it there. Sounds like you can't do that. Another test would be to assign MIDI CC for volume control and see whether you can control volume continuously. Yet another test would be to record a few passages and see what the MIDI CC looks like on the track. If you see numerous points spread out between 0 and 127, then I'd concede that your pedal is dynamic. But I'll bet you only see 0 and 127 (or whichever 2 numbers correspond to ON and OFF).

The plot thickens...

Last edited by moshuajusic (26-10-2009 02:08)

Re: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

Good work guys(?) :-) I would test it if K-audio (CZ) would let me return it (which they don't, sigh I wanted to test the M-Audio keystation pro 88 I have but "if you order you must buy it..")

Re: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

Joshua

If you need a pedal that is versatile enough to transmit CC7 MIDI volume data, then I do not think the VFP3-10 is for you.

I do not believe it transmits merely switching "artefacts". The intermediate values are repeatable, consistent, and monotonically variable.

If a tri-state output is required (e.g. pedal off, pedal on, pedal half-on), one way to achieve this would be to use software up-stream from Pianoteq to convert inputs in the range 1 <= v <= 126 to a constant output value of your choosing.

Having said all that, it now occurs to me what sort of component I think I was looking at on the circuit inside the pedal. It is not at all like any common linear potentiometer (such as this one http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=2215 ). What I suspect Fatar have done is take the pressure sensor they use under the keys for after-touch in their keyboards, and try to build a dynamic foot pedal with it. Hmm.

I note your URL to pianoworld.com with your solution. It seems rather expensive - approaching the (discounted) price of a VMK88 keyboard . This has set me wondering whether this Fatar pedal unit, which is quite cheap in comparison, might be adapted to provide the degree of end-user control needed to be a volume control. This would be along the lines of attaching an alternative electrical component to the lever. As this is a passive unit, what would be required is something which translates change in position to a change in voltage. Perhaps a linear pot, perhaps a position sensor of some sort. I will research this some more.

Re: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

Sorry, it ain't dynamic. LOL
And I wouldn't waste my time trying to get dynamic functionality out of what's clearly a switch pedal.

Yeah, my work-around is expensive. It's a shame manufacturers don't make portable digital pianos with equally portable 3-pedal units, or at the very least 3 standard pedal jacks so that you wouldn't need expensive MIDI converters like the MIDI Solutions stuff. The VMK-188 has 3 pedal jacks, but no internal sounds. It's a glorified MIDI controller. If you want a portable digital piano with a full complement of pedal jacks, seems you gotta spend at least $2000. The only reasonable one I know of is GEM's prp800, but they're hard to come by... they may even be outta business at this point. Plus, I only saw their 3-pedal unit in a package deal along with matching bench and stand for $400. *facepalm*

I'm sure the Fatar VFP3-D would be sweet, but I'm not holding my breath for a release.

Last edited by moshuajusic (27-10-2009 00:42)

Re: +Fatar VFP3-10 triple dynamic pedal unit - user review

You can always buy 3 dynamic single-box-pedals and attach them to say a wooden base, it'll cost around 100 euro for 3 pedals I think.