Topic by borntobemild

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Topic: Steinway Preset

hi folks,

I'm a new Pianoteq user, I'm glad being one and I am absolutely frustrated about sample-based pianos. In fact, I tried a few...:-)
But I also really like the sound of a beautiful, pure Steinway Concert D Grand. Is here anybody who can tell me a really, really GOOD setting / preset to know the true promise of a Steinway D??! I know its the 209cm of string length. But what else? What p/m/f- settings? What's about all the other characteristics? Is it actually possible building a Steinway D??
Thanks for your numerous answers:-)

cheers, Stefan

Reply by Glenn NK

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Re: Steinway Preset

I would start with the default string length of 270 cm because a Steinway D is 8'-11 3/4" long (274 cm) according to the Steinway website.
http://www.steinway.com/steinway/specs/model_d.shtml

One of the problems (that has been discussed from time to time on this site) is the sound system that is being used to judge the output from Pianoteq.  This includes the soundcard, amps, and possibly most critical, the combination of speakers/headphones producing the sound and the room acoustics.  Very few systems accurately reproduce sounds accurately.  This becomes obvious on a website that rates headphones:
http://www.headphone.com/technical/prod...hp?graphID[0]=703&graphID[1]=543&graphID[2]=533&graphID[3]=&graphType=6&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones

A quick look will reveal how non-linear many of them are.

As a starting point look on the main page of Pianoteq, under the Community tab for "User Demos".  There are a few here.

Glenn

Last edited by Glenn NK (27-05-2009 17:17)
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Reply by borntobemild

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Re: Steinway Preset

hi glenn,

thanks for your answer. I'll give it a try. I started with the "romantic steinway" preset. Which (to me) felt most accurate. And I took 2.74m of string length as well. I think with a little tweaking here and there it could work!
I agree with your "sound system" issue. That's a really big point. I'm using (mostly) a M-Audio Firewire 1814 or a M-Audio Transit Interface (Sometimes also the onboard soundcard on my MacBook Pro). Most of the time using headphones (AKG K271) or my UltimateEars UE-10 Pros.
The headphone-website was very interesting.
I think I'm working on a bit what I've got now.

cheers

Reply by sigasa

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Re: Steinway Preset

try a string length of 201cm. This is the length of the longest string on a Steinway model D according to the official Steinway website

Reply by Glenn NK

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Re: Steinway Preset

sigasa wrote:

try a string length of 201cm. This is the length of the longest string on a Steinway model D according to the official Steinway website

Good point - I missed on that one.  The string length is shorter than the piano length by  quite a bit  - I'm accustomed to thinking of pianos in overall length, not string length.

Thanks for pointing this out, and setting me straight.

Maybe the "String length" in Pianoteq should be be the "overall length" of grand pianos because that's the standard reference measure of pianos.

Wow, I've been playing some very long pianos - I set the string length in Pianoteq to 270 cm (which is about the length of the entire piano).

Glenn

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Reply by borntobemild

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Re: Steinway Preset

yes, I already know that point with the string length. But what's about the other parameters?? Like hammer-hardness? Overtones? EQing?
These are the things that would really interest me!:-)

cheers

Reply by Glenn NK

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Re: Steinway Preset

borntobemild wrote:

yes, I already know that point with the string length. But what's about the other parameters?? Like hammer-hardness? Overtones? EQing?
These are the things that would really interest me!:-)

cheers

Are looking for the New York sound, or the Hamburg sound.  From what I've heard (by playing Becksteins, a Hamburg Steinway O, and Bosendorfers) and learned from a friend that rebuilds quite a few German grands, they have a more mellow tone (less harsh to me).  So I would back off the hammer hardness for starters.  Incidentally, the Hamburg O is only 5'-10" and was built in 1926, but my friend and I both think it has better sound than larger Japanese pianos.

Ears and sound systems are perhaps the largest variables in what Pianoteq sounds like.

Glenn

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Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Steinway Preset

The problem about lower hammer hardness on pianoteq, is that the sound get too stuff, fuggy.  I hope future new versions can fix that.

Reply by Jake Johnson

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Re: Steinway Preset

Beto-Music wrote:

The problem about lower hammer hardness on pianoteq, is that the sound get too stuff, fuggy.  I hope future new versions can fix that.

Reducing the amplitude of the upper partials will help to give soft strikes with softer hammers more definition.

That said, I sometimes wish that there was a way to connect some of the other parameters to the three velocity ranges, so, for example, the amplitudes of the partials could be set differently for each range, with the software somehow interpolating things to eliminate sudden changes in timbre at the borders of the velocity changes. Might be confusing, and hard to implement, though.

Another way to do it would be to provide vel curve windows (like the one in the Velocity pane) for each parameter. Not sure that this would help in what you're hearing, but it might.

Last edited by Jake Johnson (02-06-2009 21:54)

Reply by DonSmith

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Re: Steinway Preset

Glenn NK wrote:

One of the problems (that has been discussed from time to time on this site) is the sound system that is being used to judge the output from Pianoteq.  This includes the soundcard, amps, and possibly most critical, the combination of speakers/headphones producing the sound and the room acoustics.  Very few systems accurately reproduce sounds accurately.  This becomes obvious on a website that rates headphones:
http://www.headphone.com/technical/prod...hp?graphID.

Glenn

It's so true! The sound source makes a big difference. I have three headphones (none that exspensive). They're Pro-Lux OA-850; Sennhieser-eH1430; ProSound A13FN. I've played Pianoteq through each one and the Pro-Lux OA-850 has details that you just can't hear in the other two. I never really appreciated the difference before.

I notice that there is a lot of detail in the sound produced by Pianoteq. You hear more even if you just increase the volumn to match the volumn of a real piano. However, consider the factors quoted by Glenn.

Thanks for the link.

Last edited by DonSmith (30-06-2009 08:44)