M Audio Hammer 88 with Pianoteq (Page 1 of 2)

if you sell your North Stage you have enough money to buy a Kawai VPC1

Generally speaking, I would approach M-audio with caution. I've dealt with a fair bit of their gear over the years and swore off the brand entirely under their Avid ownership, so I've not had any experience since it was again sold. From what I can tell, it remains a decidedly entry-level lineup and thus might be a little bit of culture shock coming from your Nord.

You'd be giving up:

• graded action (think I remember my old NS1 being the graded version of the TP40 action)
• Note-off velocity (Pianoteq is one of the few VIs where this matters)
• Aftertouch (if that matters)
• Response adjustment of any kind (no soft/medium/hard I remember Nord offering)
• metal enclosure (appears the M-Audio uses an MDF base; fairly common)

This is about where someone chimes in a says "go play it for yourself" which is always a good idea if possible... and indeed I haven't had hands on a Hammer 88 to offer any comment. I do recall the last 88 of theirs I played being oversensitive enough to require a distractingly soft touch, which would concern me, given the apparent lack of adjustability.  If you are interested enough to give it a shot, I see Amazon currently has a 20% coupon for Prime members, making it a fairly minimal risk.

I'll add that, in a very similar situation, I was able to pass my heavily-discounted Stage 88 on to a friend and grab a triple sensor Studiologic Sl88 with a few hundred dollars left in my pocket. I'd call it a noticeable keybed upgrade (see the recent thread for details) and would do it again in a heartbeat.

Cheers guys, yes I thought the M-audio would likely be a considerable step down. I had some hope as it's a relatively new product and there doesn't seem to be a lot of info on it. I've noticed that M-audio keyboards of the past don't seem to have a very good reputation but I thought this new one looked quite promising for the money. However, the lack of note-off velocity is a deal breaker. Thanks for pointing that out. From what I've heard the Nord Stage 2 isn't considered to have a particularly great piano action and is more of a jack of all trades keybed that works well for EP's and Synth sounds etc, so I am hoping I can pick up something that is subjectively better as far as piano action is concerned.

I've played the Roland RD2000 and the Kawai MP10 which I believe is similar to the vpc1. Both were excellent and had much better piano actions than the Nord imo, though neither are an option as I hope to spend £600 or less. I also need the keyboard to be portable for live use and the Kawai is a beast. It seems my best options are the Casio Px5s, Roland A88 and Studiologic sl88 grand. The studiologic is out of my price range but I found a b-stock sl88 grand selling for £599. Unfortunately I can't buy it until the Nord is sold so it'll likely be gone by then.

How does the Roland A88 compare to the Nord action? Does it have note-off velocity?

Yes, PX-5S does send note off IIRC. PX-160 has speakers which are probably not necessary if it's gonna be used as a pure MIDI controller... PX-5S is better for that.

PX-5S is also a better MIDI controller than PX-160, because it actually has some controllers on it: sliders, knobs, pitch bend, modwheel... this stuff can be neat with some Pianoteq instruments (i.e. pitch bend for the Clavinet, etc.), also the sliders could be assigned to some Pianoteq parameters and you could change them on the fly, etc. Very flexible and definitely worth the additional price over PX-160. It is also lighter than PX-160.

Without even trying out the PX-5S? (BTW Nord is using Fatar TP40 keybed, which is also what you'll find in SL88 Grand, the only difference is that SL88 Grand has triple sensors and is graded, which is also what you'll find in PX-5S, and that it has a plastic-wood sandwich keys, instead of plastic only).

The guy already said that having no pitch bend rules it out for him

Well, lack of controllers and superfluous speakers would rule out PX-160 for me, too.

But nevermind that, I'm getting an RD-2000 anyways, one of these days.

Nowhere stocks Casio or Studiologic over here so I can't try them unfortunately. The SL88 grand is probably the safest choice as I already like the Nord action and it should be similar or hopefully better with the graded action and triple sensors.

Hello, are you sure the M-Audio Hammer 88 don't send note-off velocity?
I searched very deeply, and this is the only place in the internet saying it doesn't send note-off velocity.
I didn't find anywhere that it is said that the M-Audio Hammer 88 *does* send note-off velocity as well.

I am far from professional piano player, but I am software developer owning M-Audio Hammer 88, just checked in the logs - my keyboard sends note-off velocity.

Only thing I do not like and finding strange in piano vs real piano is that on real piano I can 'replay' the note way more easily.

I.e. press Do, then press Do again, question is how high you need to lift finger. In real piano i recall i need to lift it just a bit to produce a sound. Here unless you lift key half-way nothing would be detected. That is moderately annoying. If anyone could tell me if all midi keyboard like this or just this one - I'll be very happy to know.

That's a double sensor keyboard. Triple sensor keyboard models are meant to improve that. However I suspect this can only be a marginal improvement in modest cost models, owing to mechanical limitations of the key mechanisms themselves.
So you want the bigger, more expensive digital pianos with their tighter tolerance components, longer more sophisticated key mechanisms, not budget parts squeezed into smaller, lower cost keyboards.
I'm not sure it's in the manufacturers self interest to come up with a clever engineering solution for this in their lower cost models anyway, being cynical.

Hello.  I have an M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro.  It appears not to send any note-off velocity.  The keys are on the sluggish side; it's hard to play fast passages.

I'll try to get a better one, with note-off, and keys of reasonably comparable quality to a Steinway grand.  What is the price range, if such a controller exists?

Yes, it always sends 64 note-off.  I don't know if it actually supposed to support variance in the note-off values.  It's supposed to send aftertouch data, but it doesn't.  Might be a defective model.  There's a curious lack of real information about this keyboard on the internet, besides obviously sponsored glowing reviews and various complaints about defective models.

It does support continous pedals.  You have to use the "expression" input and then use the preset editor to map it to CC64.

What a bummer, I already ordered a Hammer 88, it supposed to be my main controller, not only for Pianoteq or other VST pianos, but for various virtual instruments.
But because I'm a piano focused composer(I mean that I learned harmony and composition through the piano, not that I mainly compose pieces for piano), I wanted it to be a decent piano controller, and I mainly use Pianoteq, it's my favorite VST piano.
I also hoped that it is a decent piano controller for nightly silent piano sessions with headphones, because I'm moving now to a new studio apartment and meanwhile I'm leaving my Kawai MP11SE at my mother house.
I'm not excepting it to be as good as the MP11SE, but if it is as good as some entry level digital pianos that currently in the market like Roland FP10 or Yamaha P125 then I'm definitely going to be satisfied 

I read a lot of positive reviews on this keyboard, and in terms of specs I don't know any alternative that fits to my workflow and my ergonomic preference I.E wheels at the side and not at the top, perfect MIDI editor.

But what bothers me now even more, is that I now read in some review that you can't use its MIDI editor at the same time that the DAW is open, I.E when I work with the Hammer 88 on Cubase, and I want to use the MIDI editor for reassign the MOD-Wheel or the expression pedal to different MIDI CCs, I have to quite Cubase first, reassign with the MIDI editor, and then enter Cubase again. And repeat this actions every time I want to change something on the MIDI editor.
If it is really so, then it's going to completely destruct my workflow, I mean, this is totally unacceptable.
I really really hope this is not the case because I chose the Hammer 88 over other MIDI keyboards mainly because of the convenient editor. Like, not sending note-off velocity is suck, but it's not a deal breaker, but this, this is a real deal breaker, if I knew it is like that I would not have ordered it. And I don't think I can cancel my order now.

But anyway if someone can confirm that there is such a problem please tell me fast so I'll try to cancel my order as soon as possible.

I'm able to play some Bach preludes on the Hammer 88 Pro, but not Grieg lyric pieces.  They're more playable on Casio's Celviano series of digital pianos, or any decent acoustic.

Lycomedes, if your keyboard supposed to have aftertouch I guess it is M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro and not M-Audio Hammer 88.
The Hammer 88 doesn't has aftertouch unless I'm mistaken here big time.

Anyway, I will be thankful if you'll update here about the answer you'll get from M-Audio.

https://disk.yandex.com/i/MrzH3JzdzxnWyg

This right hand is difficult to play on the Hammer 88 Pro because the keys are so stiff at the top.  I contort my hand in creative ways to hit the bottom (nearest part) of the white keys while my thumb is pressing F#.

Hammer 88 Pro does not send note-off velocities, at least mine doesn't.  I never got a response from M-Audio support.  And occasionally a note is "stuck", or there's sudden garbled input (extra notes I didn't press), at least with Pianoteq, I haven't encountered that with other piano VSTs, at least not yet.

In the MIDI, along with the garbled input, is the sudden apperance of a random MIDI CC like 73 (Sound Attack) or 59, and the pedal input also looks strange.

https://disk.yandex.com/i/DWU5nNWAfUwtEQ

Now I've confirmed the glitch input also happens with other VSTs, in particular Spitfire's Intimate Grand Piano.  I'll try to get a refund, and I won't be buying any more M-Audio products.

Excellent things to do with most dpianos and DAWs Lycomedes!

For your point 1, might be worth saying that in some dpianos, the 'MIDI out' may be called something like "Local MIDI", always good to turn this kind of thing OFF.

Have found not turning it off, can be attributed to some glitches, esp. over USB connected dpianos, not so much if using old style MIDI cabling (which I prefer). Would be interested if others find similar.

Hey, I’m having this problem too and it’s ruing everything. Too bad because apart from that I really like this keyboard.

Can you tell me how do I turn off “MIDI out” in the hammer 88 settings?
I can’t see this parameter in the Hammer 88 MIDI Editor.

OK I checked in the manual, as far as I can tell there is no such parameter as "MIDI out" in the Hammer 88 non pro version.

I'll try to connect the Hammer 88 directly to my computer, not through a USB hub and a USB extension cable as I did mostly so far, and see if it helps.

Anyway, I can tell you for sure that this problem is much more common with Pianoteq 7 than with any other VST instrument I played with through the Hammer 88, including Pianoteq 5 which I tried after having this problem with Pianoteq 7.

And another note- Not connecting another MIDI device is out of the question for me, the whole ergonomic plane for my new home studio desk was based on combining the Hammer 88 with KORG nanoKONTROL Studio on my desk for additional controllers.

I should have mention that I don't have a KORG nanoKONTROL Studio yet anyway.

But let's see if the cable thing helps, I'll update shortly.

Thank you very much for trying to help me.