Topic: Pianoteq 6.1

Awesome!! it just got better!

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

First out of the starting gate, you are!

- David

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

I love the enhancements. Sounds better indeed.
But now I have a major problem with the audio device selection.
Every time pianoteq starts it claims my audio device is missing,
Even though it's showing it. I have to select it manually now.

Since I'm running a headless setup (mini pc, Linux Intel 64bit),
this is very annoying....
It worked flawlessly with previous version.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Hm, just installed 6.1; I don't have any problems with audio devices.
But: It's the first PTQ Upgrade, which I can't get used to the new sound.
It may sound "more realistic" and there may be "more air",
but to my ears it now sounds way too harsh, compared to 6.0,
nearly "too much" detail" in the overtones, I am missing the warm sound
of all my presets I had in 6.0. It's completely gone... :-(

Unfortunately I haven't kept the 6.0 install file and appearently
it is also no longer in the personal download section.
Is there a way to get 6.0 back??
(at least until I know the trick which parameters to change to "re-round" the new 6.1 sound)

Last edited by Arkanda (28-02-2018 23:08)

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Arkanda wrote:

It may sound "more realistic" and there may be "more air",
but to my ears it now sounds way too harsh, compared to 6.0,
nearly "too much" detail" in the overtones, I am missing the warm sound
of all my presets I had in 6.0. It's completely gone... :-(

Not to my ears, I am always missing acoustic piano sound, so this is more and more beautiful

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

I agree.  It's really a nice improvement for the 'in close' presets such as the player and close mic variants.  Much more realistic for my player piano set-up, with monitor speakers flanking my upright piano.

- David

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Arkanda wrote:

Hm, just installed 6.1; I don't have any problems with audio devices.
But: It's the first PTQ Upgrade, which I can't get used to the new sound.
It may sound "more realistic" and there may be "more air",
but to my ears it now sounds way too harsh, compared to 6.0,
nearly "too much" detail" in the overtones, I am missing the warm sound
of all my presets I had in 6.0. It's completely gone... :-(

Unfortunately I haven't kept the 6.0 install file and appearently
it is also no longer in the personal download section.
Is there a way to get 6.0 back??
(at least until I know the trick which parameters to change to "re-round" the new 6.1 sound)

I found many presets now have an extra EQ to gain frequency over 3000Hz, warmer sound may get back if you turn off the second EQ.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

I was playing before and after install, and it does sound a little more realistic. Perhaps there was a tweak to the overall algorithm or is it the placebo affect?

I look forward to playing in the morning. It's bedtime where I'm at.

Pianoteq 6 Std, Bluthner, Model B, Grotian, YC5, Hohner, Kremsegg #1, Electric Pianos. Roland FP-90, Windows 10 quad core, Xenyx Q802USB, Yamaha HS8 monitors, Audio Technica
ATH-M50x headphones.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

well, cannot really make a comparison statement (yesterday I played with 6.0.3, late yeasterday evening I installed 6.1, this morning I played 6.1) ...

However, after the statement here and listening to demos I was a bit concerned. Nevertheless, using my own (maybe heavily adapted) presets, I think that the update is more on the improvement side. The D seems a bit hollow playing certain intervals - but not sure if it is related to this update - I use the other models far more often.

The 'last used presets' - not sure if that is a great thing - a favorites list might have been a better choice. not sure if it can be turned off - but as is, it just lengths the way to the sorted presets .... not really great in terms of UX. Maybe have switchable tabs in the preset drop-down - favorites and sorted .... (I know there is the big preset browser - miserable UX if you ask - also do not like that concept within other VIs - e.g. U-he)

just my thoughts

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

For those interested in listening to a side by side comparison, we have prepared a little comparison page that will be mentioned in the forthcoming newsletter: https://www.pianoteq.com/listen_compari...re=v60-v61

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Oh yes, I heard the difference straight away in those comparison demos. Listening to just the first few seconds of the Schumann example, the 6.0 version sounds almost muffled after hearing the 6.1! I am assuming that those demos were done with just the basic presets, no modifications?

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

This is no small improvement and is a rare thing - exceptional work again and thanks in accordance for 6.1!

Defaults - wow.

For new users, it's definitely more usable 'out of the box' and for existing Pianoteq lovers, a new sound horizon with way more headroom.

Both of the Steinway pianos are yet more beautiful and even more closely characteristic to their real world selves - I feel more like reality is just so much closer here - no words just now for this other than more gratitude - I can throw any notes across the keys and it is so much more like the real thing - amazing.

I love how there is so much more clarity within crowded passages - less 'cloud' of sound particularly among lower notes and overtones (as seen mentioned in some recent forum posts). Also, nice that the lower overtones are not too far changed - just improved just as expected.

Have spent hours playing Pianoteq 6.1 here just now, and have again gone back to defaults (applying my own Velocity Curves/Dynamics/Reverb - mostly just curve and velo for now).

Many of my older settings are now indeed defunct and I'm glad of it.

The new defaults with minor adjustments are way better than all my tweaking over the years on past versions. This might have been a problem IF the new sound was not as good as it is. Modartt has never failed to impress on this level.

In reference to Arkanda, in 6.1 it's not so difficult to create warmer sounds with standard tweaks (EQ/hammers/etc. in Pianoteq or sound settings & plugins in a DAW) but it was not possible to get as much detail from earlier versions. My older presets now sound like I have cotton in my ears by comparison.

I'd definitely rather be able to pair down towards that warmth you mention, without losing any detail (way better results) than to not be able to achieve a very realistic bright concert sound etc. Too many words - but to my mind in essence, it's lossy the other way around - hope that's understandable for anyone reading.

Last note about the above, I perceive that the new Pianoteq 6.1 sounds something like 20% 'better' (for subjective measure of 'better') and the piano behaves more realistically because of that detail.

Those used to all the old midi pianos of the past might like to lower the dynamics slider to something like 26 if all the new detail makes their playing sound less precise - when playing poorly this stands out more to me. I do however love some settings having Dynamics set at 40, 42 or 45 - and this goes well with a feeling of more "headroom" in the sound - and like a quality 'real' piano, this inspires to play better. Very satisfying testing here.

It's quite stunning to have the closest thing to dozens of real pianos and other instruments right in the same seat. What a crazy world. (Yes, there are other software/hardware digital piano solutions out there - but Pianoteq is truly and genuinely more "the future is here" kind of stuff - from someone watching this space for a long time).

Again I am compelled to express my sincere gratitude for Modartt's and Philippe's great work and attention to those supporting this magnificent software (ALWAYS over-delivering and improving all the time).

I am today, once again in quite an excited musical state because of a small update to Pianoteq, with turns out to be more than at first imagined.

Pianoteq Studio Bundle (Pro plus all instruments)  - Kawai MP11 digital piano - Yamaha HS8 monitors

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

dazric wrote:

I am assuming that those demos were done with just the basic presets, no modifications?

Exactly.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

I've installed V6.1 this morning.
My first feeling : "A door into summer" has just opened...
A quick impro exploring this new version, with Steinway D Cinematic :
https://hearthis.at/xnwdv7yv/valse-cour...timentale/

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

I wish there was an easy way to compare 6.1 to 6.0 after updating to 6.1. I can't say if I really hear much of a difference - I'd have to listen to each version side by side ;0

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

A quick first reaction. New version sounds slightly warmer and gentler. I recently recorded Chopin's Op6 No1 with the previous version, so I re-recorded it with the same preset and compared the 2. The new version sounds smoother, but the top (loud) f in the penultimate section comes over very clearly, with the appropriate hardness needed. As always, listening another day may provoke a slightly different reaction, but I have no plans at present to change my heavily tailored preset that suits my setup. (Additional distant mic and other tweaks in Pro) So, a good deal of relief and gratitude to Modartt. The sustain also seems to provide, well, more sustain. I find Pianoteq's sustain pedal more effective, i.e. needs more sparing use, than a Kawai 7' acoustic I have access to and more delicacy is needed now. Which is good.

Even before the update, I have listened to my own playing and those of others in the same works on acoustic D's and whilst the playing doesn't stand comparison, the sound isn't obviously a recording of a software instrument. This upgrade can only bring closer to a near parity in recorded sound.

Well done again, Modartt.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

What an excellent update/upgrade! Thank you so much Philippe and all the Pianoteq developers.

--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Amazing! Ptq Steinway D sound got better again. When something does change, it grab my attention (with the nine octaves I am still able to hear). In my opinion, it is like I was close to a real piano with the lid open (were listening to the comparison, used Grado Lab SR80i prestige series headphones) Or, let me put it another nice way. Its like they have taken the finest materials and combined them with their over 10 year knowledge of how to create a realistic sounding piano. Thats what I think about it. Well done again. Thank you so much, Philippe, your colleagues and the team!

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Philippe Guillaume wrote:

For those interested in listening to a side by side comparison, we have prepared a little comparison page that will be mentioned in the forthcoming newsletter: https://www.pianoteq.com/listen_compari...re=v60-v61

Philippe - quite clever how Modartt set the comparison up so that the two versions sync up in time so that you can compare one vs. the other continuously; well done technically.

edit: Thanks for the tips re. the preset manager. Not sure how I missed that; I even read the manual a while ago...

Last edited by tfort (01-03-2018 22:26)

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

The comments you want are already there at the right of the image when using the preset manager.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

As Gilles mentioned, just open the Preset Manager, click on a preset and read its concise description below. Very informative.

You can also drag the Preset Manager away from the main Pianoteq Window (just move the mouse cursor slowly over the top of the Preset Manager until the dragable area appears) so that you can view both at the same time.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (01-03-2018 22:11)
--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

I tried version 6.1 yesterday and today and enjoyed it so much! The realism is stunning along with the great playability.

Sometimes I wonder to myself "...this is as good as it gets, what's left for Modartt to do?", then several days later I will be longing for Pianoteq 7.

Thanks so much for the awesome version!

Roger

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Thanks for NKS, Modartt! And thanks for continually making Pianoteq better than the best!

Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

How wonderful and pleasant! Thank you Modartt! Exciting update!

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Looking forward to trying the new 6.1 version. Pianoteq became a very serious piano VST with v6.0!

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Sounds quite nice indeed. Love the new "Recent Presets" tab.

Pianoteq 8 Pro Studio with Classical Guitar and Organteq 2

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

I never cease to be amazed at the quality of Pianoteq's sounds!  Bravo to you, Philippe and everyone at Modartt who made this upgrade available!

Cheers,

Joe

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Hi,
I would like to turn the new features off and on, because in some contexts the new version sounds too sharp and/or roomy.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Arkanda wrote:

Hm, just installed 6.1; I don't have any problems with audio devices.
But: It's the first PTQ Upgrade, which I can't get used to the new sound.
It may sound "more realistic" and there may be "more air",
but to my ears it now sounds way too harsh, compared to 6.0,
nearly "too much" detail" in the overtones, I am missing the warm sound
of all my presets I had in 6.0. It's completely gone... :-(

Unfortunately I haven't kept the 6.0 install file and appearently
it is also no longer in the personal download section.
Is there a way to get 6.0 back??
(at least until I know the trick which parameters to change to "re-round" the new 6.1 sound)

What instruments exactly are you referring to here?
Any chance you could make an audio comparison and let us have a listen? (or feel free to contact us here).

You can download version 6.0.3 from the user area at https://www.pianoteq.com/user_area
After logging in, click on the Download tab, then the link "Previous versions are still available...".

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

JoPiano wrote:

Hi,
I would like to turn the new features off and on, because in some contexts the new version sounds too sharp and/or roomy.

Probably won't happen, Pianoteq never worked like that. You will need to tweak the presets to get them to your liking.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

I would like to tweak it, but the new spatial sound has nothing to do with reverb or anything else I could adjust. It seems, that it is part of the new algorithm itself.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Yes, and it's a marked improvement... You could try tweaking soundboard impendance/Q and hammer hardness if you find things too sharp or roomy. Or adjust microphone positioning...

Hard work and guts!

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Niclas Fogwall wrote:

What instruments exactly are you referring to here?
Any chance you could make an audio comparison and let us have a listen? (or feel free to contact us here).

You can download version 6.0.3 from the user area at https://www.pianoteq.com/user_area
After logging in, click on the Download tab, then the link "Previous versions are still available...".

Ah, thanks very much for making the 6.0.3 version available again.

Well, actually I here the differences, the more sharp and less round sound also in the official examples here:
https://www.pianoteq.com/listen_compari...re=v60-v61

However, I have to stress, I refer to the impression of sound on my very setup,
that ist a RME UCX device (the RME devices are said to sound very analytical) and solely playing through my
headphones (Sennheiser HD 199). I am aware that on a different setup and especially when playing through
speakers sound impression will be quite different.

I don't use speakers because I play an acoustic Grotrian upright piano, so I use PTQ only at nighttimes
through my headphones. And I use 99% the Grotrian royal grand PTQ instrument.
I spent some months to tweak and tweak again the Grotrian grand preset to sound at least somewhat similar
the the original sound of my (small) Grotrian upright. Finally, I was very pleased with it, the Grotrian sound
was kept, but the Royal Grand now sounds very much like a small upright through my preset (I may publish
it, if someone is interested).
The 110cm Grotrian upright, by the way, sound extremly warm, round and mellow, but never dull, always rich.
Therefore, I was a bit disappointed, when 6.1 changed the sound so much towards a much brighter impression.

For me nearly all instruments now feel sigificantly louder in 6.1 by the way, I was turning down volume nearly on every instrument by -3db
I was alreay tweaking the hammer hardness and equalizer, it helped a bit, though I'm still not at my previous "roundness-level".

Last edited by Arkanda (02-03-2018 18:33)

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

EvilDragon wrote:

Yes, and it's a marked improvement...

I agree; I very much like and appreciate the 6.10 update, and it’s easy to use the Equalizer, Equ3 effect, hammer hardness as you mentioned and other features to shape the sound according to one’s own preferences.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (02-03-2018 18:38)
--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Arkanda wrote:

I spent some months to tweak and tweak again the Grotrian grand preset to sound at least somewhat similar
the the original sound of my (small) Grotrian upright. Finally, I was very pleased with it, the Grotrian sound
was kept, but the Royal Grand now sounds very much like a small upright through my preset (I may publish
it, if someone is interested).

Yes, sure, please post it on the fxp corner.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

So I guess I'm the only one having trouble with the audio device selection?
With previous version I was able to unplug my USB interface, get an error message and plug it in again to see the message dissappear and continue playing.
Now often my audio interface is not recognized, while my os (Debian) has no problem using it.
Have not seen this behavior before...

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

amazing job guys. it feels much more dynamic to me now.

Please keep up good work like this!

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Thank you the team for this new update.
It sounds significantly better and cleaner than the previous 6.0 that sounded already great.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Wonderful improvements!
A question: how does PTQ 6.1 treat the the presets that I modified and saved in 6.0?  Does it apply the "old" adjustments to the new 6.1 model?

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Does demo songs on instruments' pages are rerendered after each release?

Combine velocity curves: http://output.jsbin.com/cukeme/9

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Arkanda wrote:
Niclas Fogwall wrote:

What instruments exactly are you referring to here?
Any chance you could make an audio comparison and let us have a listen? (or feel free to contact us here).

You can download version 6.0.3 from the user area at https://www.pianoteq.com/user_area
After logging in, click on the Download tab, then the link "Previous versions are still available...".

Ah, thanks very much for making the 6.0.3 version available again.

Well, actually I here the differences, the more sharp and less round sound also in the official examples here:
https://www.pianoteq.com/listen_compari...re=v60-v61

However, I have to stress, I refer to the impression of sound on my very setup,
that ist a RME UCX device (the RME devices are said to sound very analytical) and solely playing through my
headphones (Sennheiser HD 199). I am aware that on a different setup and especially when playing through
speakers sound impression will be quite different.

I don't use speakers because I play an acoustic Grotrian upright piano, so I use PTQ only at nighttimes
through my headphones. And I use 99% the Grotrian royal grand PTQ instrument.
I spent some months to tweak and tweak again the Grotrian grand preset to sound at least somewhat similar
the the original sound of my (small) Grotrian upright. Finally, I was very pleased with it, the Grotrian sound
was kept, but the Royal Grand now sounds very much like a small upright through my preset (I may publish
it, if someone is interested).
The 110cm Grotrian upright, by the way, sound extremly warm, round and mellow, but never dull, always rich.
Therefore, I was a bit disappointed, when 6.1 changed the sound so much towards a much brighter impression.

For me nearly all instruments now feel sigificantly louder in 6.1 by the way, I was turning down volume nearly on every instrument by -3db
I was alreay tweaking the hammer hardness and equalizer, it helped a bit, though I'm still not at my previous "roundness-level".

Like Gilles I'm very interested in seeing your FXP. Pretty sure you can adapt that to this newer version. Like you I prefer a rounder, softer tone (especially in the treble) and I'm certainly not seeing that in this version. As a simple step (which you've already taken), I first reduce overtone intensities by EQ'ing starting around 3.5 - 4.5 kHz and going all the way to the highest frequency shown (which may be 22.05kHz but I'm not certain). Most other users posting here do not seem to be at all bothered by these higher overtone intensities, so I may well have a hearing problem or an extra sensitivity to a certain higher frequency range. However, it is interesting that your acoustic piano does not exhibit the same level of brightness - was it always that way or has it mellowed over time?

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

TimN wrote:

Wonderful improvements!
A question: how does PTQ 6.1 treat the the presets that I modified and saved in 6.0?  Does it apply the "old" adjustments to the new 6.1 model?

PTQ 6.1 applies your settings to the new instrument (including its "factory" changes), and overwrites the possible changes that were made at the UI level (user interface level) to the new version of the instrument. For example, some of the new presets include some changes in the EQU3 effect, to bring a bit more high frequencies. If your preset had a flat EQU3, then it will keep its flat EQU3.

In other words, what you obtain after loading your preset is:
- you get all the changes that were done at the factory level, such as the new spatialisation technique,
- you get none of the changes that were made at the UI level in the new presets.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Ross wrote:

Does demo songs on instruments' pages are rerendered after each release?

All those that we have produced, mainly the solo demos, plus a few duo or trio, have been rerendered. The demos with orchestra haven't been updated, because we do not have the related project.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

MrRoland wrote:

So I guess I'm the only one having trouble with the audio device selection?

Can you try to download version 6.1.1 (released today) ? It should fix that issue.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

honjr wrote:

Like Gilles I'm very interested in seeing your FXP.

OK, I've just uploaded my "Grotrian small upright emulation"
But, be warned, if you compare it to most of the other intruments and presets,
it may sound quite muffled and dry at first.
However, playing long time with it with headphones I am very pleased with it,
it sounds un-stressful, laid back. Very much like my 110cm Grotrian upright
in my small and rather dry sounding living room.
Also, with many Audio and headphone devices it may require some other equalizer settings.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

julien wrote:
MrRoland wrote:

So I guess I'm the only one having trouble with the audio device selection?

Can you try to download version 6.1.1 (released today) ? It should fix that issue.

Thank you!
Hope to test it tomorrow.

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Inspired by the recording of Daniel Trifonov, I tried to simulate the position of the microphones as on the record:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Oy7leb...e=youtu.be

FXP:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/file/igf01oy

The attempt was made on the Grotrian tool. It seems to be nice)

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Pianoteq got freshier air ...

PunBB bbcode test

This quality sound update came earlier than I would have imagine. Pianoteq early versions was quite muffled, a huge problem in early days, and it got gradually better along pianoteq evolution. This last change bring the sound close to perfect clean distribution.

But the revoicing... uhhnn, I don't know.  Sorry to say, but I tried Bluthner and the tone a bit before middle range (G3 ) and some above got too even, I don't know, loosing some personality.  Sure it's easy to fix.

Overal it's a very welcome upgrade.  Thank you Modartt.

Last edited by Beto-Music (03-03-2018 06:32)

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Arkanda wrote:
honjr wrote:

Like Gilles I'm very interested in seeing your FXP.

OK, I've just uploaded my "Grotrian small upright emulation"
But, be warned, if you compare it to most of the other intruments and presets,
it may sound quite muffled and dry at first.
However, playing long time with it with headphones I am very pleased with it,
it sounds un-stressful, laid back. Very much like my 110cm Grotrian upright
in my small and rather dry sounding living room.
Also, with many Audio and headphone devices it may require some other equalizer settings.

I like it very much! It has the direct tone of an upright while sounding rounder than U4. The only thing I like less is the very bottom notes (F0 and down) that sound very hollow and stringy compared to the rest. I understand it comes from the desire to reduce the fundamental further by shortening even more these strings in Note Edit, but I think it has detrimental effects on the sound by pushing the limits too far. I tried to obtain the same result by restoring the normal string length of the Grotrian Royal while playing with the Q Factor and Cutoff to dampen the low partial resonance. I uploaded a modified version, see if you agree.

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/file/29lelvty

Re: Pianoteq 6.1

Just installed the update today. and all I can say is WOW!
I mainly use the Grotrian for classical pieces and general boring practice sessions with headphones and binaural setting; and the Bluthner for romantique and impressionism stuff.
The Grotrian, very even and smooth sound, nice bass. but before the update, the attacks near the middle C always felt too "synthy" especially with higher velocities. and the volume is a bit low compared to other instruments like the Steinway D or the Bluthner. With the update, those issues are all addressed (at least to me) and it feels richer and more natual (yes I use "feels" instead of "sounds")
The Bluthner, I really wanted to like it but there was always something I wasn't happy with. Despite its extremely warm sound, the trebles with its "aloquate" strings sounded too twangy and sometimes harsh and thin. With the update, again, all solved! Now its tone is full of colours and very sensitive to the touch. A killer for some Chopin and Debussy.
And it seems the K2 has been improved too. Before I didn't use it often cuz it was always too synthy to me. Now it's like a hidden gem, fuller and warmer. I like to use it to play some easy listenings and new age stuff. Very clean and almost "naive" sound.