Notes on new Studiologic SL88 Grand - pretty impressed.

I fully agree, have had the Grand for two years now, and I am still very happy with it. Being used to old accoustics I really appreciate the feeling of the keys (ivory fake, but works very well for me), and the action is great and works very well. I have tried Fazioli and top-end Steinways that 'helped me' more with regards to playing, but for the price the Grand is really outstanding.

A few notes from using it at home and for gigging:
- The pins and the knob can be damaged during transportation, I have made a foam overlay with holes for the pins and the knob, works well.
- The colors in the display has faded quite a bit. The black is fine, so it doesn't really matter.
- I bought the SLP3-D pedal board, but it does not work for me, I have switched back to the Roland DP-10. And whatever I have around for spare pedals for soft/sostenuto.

Regarding DefaultITs comments about the damper, yes, the first two jack are switches, the last two are continous. I have had a few issues with key sensibility, but as it is possible to adjust this on a key-by-key basis I have adjusted to my likings, and have no complaints now. The mechanics works fine.

I just pulled up a MIDI monitor to make sure, and can verify that aftertouch is indeed fully variable, and I had no trouble modulating between 0 and 127 with a pressure range I would describe as firm (0) to aggressive (127). It is monophonic, outputting a single value for the highest pressure on any combination of keys. [EDIT] It also seems to send the same value across splits using duplicate messages. For example, in a channel 1/2 split, key pressure from any part of the board is sent via concurrent evens on both channels 1 and 2. If there are any settings or adjustment for AT, I don't see them. 

I have again noticed the small delay in AT events following a key strike but am not familiar enough with AT to know if this is normal (I assume there must be some standard method of separating AT pressure from key strike force). Looking closer at this, it seems to be a generally laggy/smoothed response, as even releasing pressure seems to have slight delay compared to the other channels (pedal, control sticks). I had noticed something similar with the breath input jack on my Acuna; there was essentially only so fast the Acuna would register changes in value from the BC-3 I had plugged in. That made stuff like tonguing mostly impossible and I subsequently resorted to other breath controllers. Unlike the Acuna, this seems to be limited to just the AT channel in the SL, as the sticks and variable pedals all seem as immediate as I am able to discern. Comparing the curves produced by a control stick and AT when recorded into Logic, it does appear the AT is lower resolution. If I had to describe it, it gives the impression of a .1-.2 second latency. Only noticeable if you're really looking for it.

One of my previous boards was a Stage 88 and I can tell you firsthand that the action was a previous generation TP40 (sans wood). It did feel great, while a bit lighter than this SL88, which suits the electric sounds that board was so good at (it's a decent compromise between an acoustic and a Rhodes). But looking to a Nord simply for keybed improvement would be a large waste of money if you ask me. Anyway they're somewhat different beasts; the SL is a dedicated, tunable controller, the Nords are standalone performance machines...and some of the best, at that.

It seems that TP40WOOD is much better than TP100 according to what you said. Does either of them support CC#88 high resolution? With the SL88 Grand weighing 20.8 kg and Studio 11.5 kg, are the advantages of the former really worth the addition to the weight as well as the price?

I'm seeing some negative user reviews regarding keys that begin to click. I'd be weary of purchasing this board if I were in the market.

The SL88 Grand is on my short list to replace my Roland RD-150. I used to use an RD-700 as well but sold it. The one thing that is a concern to me is that I've had miserable experiences with Fatar keybeds in the past. Granted this is from the late 90's early 2000 and with the 900 and 800 series of controllers as well as the fully weighted hammer action keybed in the Ensoniq synths. I was touring at the time and they literally fell apart. Hammer weight cases would crack and the lead weight would fall out. Felt would wear out prematurely etc. I got very good at tracking down craft shops and repairing the units.

So jump ahead to 2018. I still seem to read more than I think I should about QC complaints with the StudioLogic units although recent complaints seem few so maybe it was the early units and things have settled down.

I'm torn between the RD-2000 and the SL88 Grand. I gigged with both my RD-150 (some ancient Fatar action, but a good one) and RD-700 and aside from some dirty faders sending out random MIDI messages, which a little DeOxit fixed I haven't had a single problem with my Roland units. Hence my leaning toward Roland.

Still $900 vs $2500 is a big difference in price.
The local stores have the RD-2000 and it has a wonderful action but they don't have the SL88 so I would buy local, pick up and this way if I don't like it I can return it without worrying about shipping costs.

I whipped out the hand sanitize bottle (flu epidemic here in USA) and have been hitting the local shops and nothing else appeals to me.

BTW I did read somewhere that the SL88 Grand display is available from electronics parts houses is inexpensive and easily replaceable. Of course I can't find the thread.

//EDIT
I found the place for the displays:

https://www.buydisplay.com/default/

Thanks to DefaultlT for posting this.
Any other comments on the SL88 Grand?

FP-90 has the same action as RD-2000 at less the price. But you need the controllers that 2000 has, yeah?

Thank you so much eriks for the fine pics. So the TP-10 in your top pic is the one I know intimately  
See the plastic that encases the hammer weight?
The first problem is that this plastic is extremely brittle, almost like a bakelite type plastic. Which seems odd for something that is under a lot of stress. So the second problem is that while your pic clearly shows the plastic totally encasing the hammer weight, every keyboard I had from that era, had gaps in the plastic where evidently during manufacture it didn't flow totally around the lead hammer weight.

Put the two problems together and it's a train wreck weighting (pun intended) to happen.
The weakened plastic would crack and the weight would fall out.

The other problem was much less serious, but the felt under the keys would wear out and need to be replaced. Time to visit the craft shop for that one. I kind of get this one as a wearable part. The CP4 seems to have a similar problem.

I'm inclined to agree with you regarding the SL88 complaints on the net. This happens all the time and in the scheme of things it's usually a small handful of people who make a lot of noise and it gets picked up in the various groups and spirals out of control.
I agree with you as I too find so very little bad  that is both recent and cannot be traced back to another person.

Thank you again for posting. The newer Fatar actions certainly, at least from an engineering POV, seem much simpler in terms of mechanics and simpler mechanics means less to to fail.
Oddly, the RD-150 I own supposedly has a Fatar action and I've never had a problem with it nor have I had it opened up to see. It replaced an Ensoniq KS-32 I had which had the TP-10 or similar action you posted above. It was a nightmare.

Thanks again for your valuable input!

We both think alike !

Well, I bought both a StudioLogic SL88 Grand and a Kawai VPC 1, and came to strongly prefer the VPC 1, which I’m still happy with after having sold the SL88 Grand. It may be just a matter of personal preferences and budget.

Well, these are just notes from my own personal experience with the StudioLogic (Fatar) SL88 Grand and the Kawai VPC 1. Although I strongly prefer the VPC 1, I generally like Fatar and their keyboards, and disliked Kawai’s early attempts at MIDI pianos/controllers and found them sluggish and frustrating (Kawai’s modern MIDI keyboards are greatly improved).

The SL88 (nicely) has triple sensors, but the velocity response varied too much from key to key, with some of them being a lot “hotter” (louder under similar finger pressure) than others. This issue can be addressed with the SL88 MIDI editor software, of which there is a version for Windows and Apple Mac (but not Linux, which I use). Kawai’s computer software is also available for only Windows/Mac and not Linux, but I found it entirely rudimentary and unnecessary.

The keyboard of the VPC1, with its long, solid wood keys, offset balance rail (between black and white keys), and general heft and inertia, feels much more like an acoustic piano than the keyboard of the SL88 Grand.

The metal case/covering of the SL88 is fairly thin and not rigid, and can deform somewhat over time with even a relatively minor weight of a laptop computer or computer keyboard and mouse placed on top of it, and juding from photos of the action I’m not sure exactly what causes the following, but part of the case seems to be very close to and contact part of the action under weight, causing a few keys to make a sound or even stick a little. This issue persisted (for me) even after the weight was removed from the case.

The keys of the SL88 Grand seem cheaper, lighter (the wood sides are only a thin veneer on a plastic key, included for appearance only), and more prone to wiggle or move than those of the VPC 1, although the VPC 1 does incorporate a standard (for acoustic pianos) pin and felt-covered hole technique to anchor the middle of the keys, which allows a little (predictable, solid) movement, which I found preferable. The matte surface of the SL88 keys feels good (helps prevent finger slippage), but is somewhat soft plastic that fairly quickly wears and becomes shiny and slicker with use.

I liked the onboard display of the SL88 and its very versatile MIDI configurability, and regarded that as an asset.

I think that the SL88 is a great bargain and a nice keyboard at that price. I think that the VPC 1 is more well-designed from the point of view of a person who prefers acoustic pianos, and more naturally or traditionally responsive to finger pressure and strokes. Both have their advantages I suppose.

@eriks

No, I’m not absolutely positive that the keys are not solid wood, rather than thin pieces glued to the sides of the plastic keys on the TP40 Wood action of the SL88 Grand. It’s just the impression I got from various photos, videos and descriptions of the keyboard action online. I didn’t open the case and remove the action from my own SL88 Grand to examine it closely.

I was never able to get the editor software to connect to the MIDI keyboard even under Wine, in Linux Mint (XFCE edition). It’s nice that you are able to do so.

Best wishes—

Thank you Stephen for your detailed review. I was just thinking the other day how after playing professionally for 40+ years in all sorts of venues, many of them with horrid pianos (which always seemed to be freshly painted white lol !)  I/we, as pianists have finally reached the point where we are discussing the escapement design of a keybed. I find that extremely cool and something I couldn't have ever imagined back in the 70's when I was lugging a Rhodes and RMI piano around. We have come a long way....

Thank you eriks for the links to the RD2000 keybed design and also to DefaulT for your input as well.

I think I'm going to head to B&H in NYC and give the StudioLogic a try. They seem to be the only place that has one on display along with RD2000 and others. I live on Eastern Long Island so it's a 2 hour car ride for me but I'll take the wife's soccer mom special minivan just in case I buy. I have 3 Sam Ashes and I think 4 Guitar Centers close to me an none of them have the SL88 Grand on display. Even an old fart like me (57yo) can see the writing on the wall that brick and mortar music stores are going the way of the dinosaur. Very sad IMHO.

I'm leaning toward the RD2000 though mostly because Roland has been good to me over the years and I have had little to no problems with their gear, all kinds of gear, even when gigging and on the road. They also have a great support system where I can buy parts which is a plus. It's not rocket science fixing these things as long as parts are procurable.

Anybody else want to weigh in?

The SL88 seems to be MIDI-over-USB class compliant; I have the editor installed now, but if I remember correctly, it didn't install any drivers. Should pretty much "just work" on any Mac you plug it into.

That said, Logic doesn't seem happy if the board is unplugged or power cycled during a session. Whereas my previous controller would just come back up with a system message informing a new MIDI input had been added, the SL seems to stay offline until Logic is restarted. Not a big concern for me...especially since I'm currently running it on bus power rather than the wall plug.

I will also add that the SL Editor is a touch finicky; I had to guess at which connection setup would allow the app to connect to the keyboard successfully (SL Grand Port 2, in my case), and it does not like my Wacom tablet. It seems straightforward enough in use, the custom velocity curves are nice to handle in the keyboard rather than in each software instrument. I found that a curve somewhere between the "normal" and "hard" settings felt about right to me, with every key uniformly balanced downward 4% or so as I found a full 127 value a little too easy to reach (I believe this is often the case for midi controllers and software instruments. 127 should be the ABSOLUTE LOUDEST NOTE YOU'LL EVER HIT and thus should not be reached regularly).

I recently purchased an SL88Grand and I have to say that I'm more impressed than I thought I would be. I have used Korg SV1, Kurzweil PC2, Kurzweil Forte SE, & Fantom X8 (my personal favorite of all) in the past. When I started looking for a new stage controller for Pianoteq & Komplete 11 (via Reaper Live), I wasn't sure if I would find something affordable with the features. I needed part workstation, part stage piano, part software controller. The RD2000 came close as combination of controls, decent sounds, & keybed feel. The Roland DS88/FA08 were decent for the money but the keybed left a few things to be desired. Yamaha Montage & CP4 both a bit overpriced for what they are and the keybeds were too heavy (We have a yamaha C7 grand; it feels lighter). Didn't like either Kronos or Grandstage for my purposes.

Most of the controllers on the market only allow you to control 1 midi channel at a time. Love that I can do 4 simultaneously on the SL88. I wanted a few onboard controls.  The 3 onboard X/Y sticks are great. Still getting used to the velocity possibilities but the the keybed with pianoteq & alicia's keys on kontakt just feel right.  Live I can layer 4 sounds over 4 midi channels and control them with the multifunction button. Love that you can assign different pedals to each channel if you like.  The last month of using this setup has been great.  If anyone has a velocity curve setting for their SL88 Grand for pianoteq, I'd love to share it.

Thank you Funky40 and revp01. Very useful information indeed and thank you for taking the time to document your experiences. It's a tough decision for me. I'm going to find a local place that has a StudioLogic SL88 Grand on display and give it a try. I've already played several RD2000 and like the action as well as the layout. The question is, $2500 vs $900 or so USD.

It think the sliders and built in sounds in the RD2000 make it worth the difference in price between it and the FP-90. I can put them to use where the speakers are useless to me. So it comes down to if I'm gonna go double the price between the SL88 Grand and FP-90 I might as well just spring for the RD2000 and call it a night.

Understood. I appreciate your input on this one!

Thank you! That was interesting indeed.

Studiologic SL88 has only wooden WHITE KEYS doesn't it?
The VPC1 has all wooden keys as far as I know (since I only own the VPC1 and love it).

Just in case if it's true and makes a difference to know....

Hi I am new here. Thanks for all your reviews. Great information. I am wondering if the SL88 will work for an aggressive Gospel-Rock style?
THank you

The key is reacting if I only lift it half way and press again.