Topic by SteveLy

  • Avatar
  • SteveLy
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 16-11-2015
  • Posts: 377

Topic: black & white key velocity curves in Std; note-by-note in Pro

I recall this has been asked before: note-by-note velocity curves in Pianteq Pro. This still does not seem to have been implemented. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. It's there for aftertouch but not for velocity, which I would deem more important.

For the Std version I'd also suggest separate curves just for black and white keys.

I bought a portable MIDI keyboard for travel, a Nektar GX61. It's non-weighted but still nice, much better than nothing and way easier to lug around than my 20+ kg Numa Nero. It works especially well with some of the electric pianos.

My keyboard's only real flaw is the black keys are a much more velocity sensitive than the white ones. Would be great to be able to fix that in Pianoteq. Is this feature on the cards?

3/2 = 5

SteveLy's Website

Reply by marcos daniel

  • Avatar
  • marcos daniel
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 02-09-2014
  • Posts: 262

Re: black & white key velocity curves in Std; note-by-note in Pro

I think there should be some piece of software to correct this... something to route the signal from midi in -> some treatment -> virtual midi in -> pianoteq, if this does not exist, it should be not very difficult to do for a programmer, or some hardware solution like using Arduino/Teensy/Whatever

Pianoteq Pro - Bechstein - Blüthner - Grotrian - K2 - Kremsegg 1 & 2 - Petrof - Steingraeber - Steinway B & D - YC5
Kawai CL35 & MP11

Reply by wolfrock

  • Avatar
  • wolfrock
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 18-01-2018
  • Posts: 4

Re: black & white key velocity curves in Std; note-by-note in Pro

Try using MIDI-OX (windows) and loopBe, which are free. I use midiox to remap expression pedals attached to another keyboard so they work the way I want them to in Kontakt, and I have multiple inputs going into loopBe. Kontakt takes the single loopBe output. (Note that pianoteq stage can do all my pedal remapping out of the box, no midiox required).

Midi-ox can take any midi input and map it to whatever output. Although I haven't tried to remap velocities with it, I bet it could be done. I also use it to test used hardware because all the midi values spit out onscreen.

Reply by stamkorg

  • Avatar
  • stamkorg
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 05-04-2014
  • Posts: 452

Re: black & white key velocity curves in Std; note-by-note in Pro

SteveLy wrote:

I recall this has been asked before: note-by-note velocity curves in Pianteq Pro. This still does not seem to have been implemented. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. It's there for aftertouch but not for velocity, which I would deem more important.

For the Std version I'd also suggest separate curves just for black and white keys.

I bought a portable MIDI keyboard for travel, a Nektar GX61. It's non-weighted but still nice, much better than nothing and way easier to lug around than my 20+ kg Numa Nero. It works especially well with some of the electric pianos.

My keyboard's only real flaw is the black keys are a much more velocity sensitive than the white ones. Would be great to be able to fix that in Pianoteq. Is this feature on the cards?

Steve,

Don't you think a note-by-note input sensitivity would be a better choice for this kind of tweaks?

Reply by SteveLy

  • Avatar
  • SteveLy
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Melbourne, Australia
  • Registered: 16-11-2015
  • Posts: 377

Re: black & white key velocity curves in Std; note-by-note in Pro

stamkorg wrote:

Don't you think a note-by-note input sensitivity would be a better choice for this kind of tweaks?

Maybe that's a better term for it...? Ptq Pro already has note-by-note aftertouch sensitivity, so it would make sense if it had the same for velocity sensitivity, which would be much more relevant for most Ptq instruments.
Meanwhile I'll keep scratching my head to think of a workaround...

3/2 = 5

SteveLy's Website

Reply by Stephen_Doonan

  • Avatar
  • Stephen_Doonan
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: US
  • Registered: 06-02-2016
  • Posts: 1,099

Re: black & white key velocity curves in Std; note-by-note in Pro

One way to deal with this issue (increased velocity-sensitivity of the black notes) is to use the Volume parameter in Note Edit, set the draw mode from “simple draw” to “Octave,” then edit any consecutive five black notes, reduce their volume by a certain number of decibels, which will change all of the corresponding black notes in all octaves by that same amount, without altering their original relative differences in volume for that particular instrument preset.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (18-01-2018 18:55)
--
Linux, Pianoteq Pro, Organteq

Reply by Jake Johnson

  • Avatar
  • Jake Johnson
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Atlanta
  • Registered: 04-05-2007
  • Posts: 4,491

Re: black & white key velocity curves in Std; note-by-note in Pro

This program lets you set each key to a different velocity response and range: http://users.belgacom.net/gc813607/index.html

Note that it requires MIDI Yoke, which does not take long to set up, and uses little memory\resources.

Someone suggested including a similar way to adjust the velocity response for each note in Pianoteq. At the time, I opposed it, and Modartt did add the ability to set the Dynamic range note by note. When combined with changing the hardness of the hammers note by note and the volume note by note, the result can be the same as changing each key's velocity response. However, I do sometimes wish that the more straightforward way of just changing the velocity response and range per key was in the program.

It would make the adjustments easier, and one does want to make these adjustments, sometimes to compensate for overly regular responses on a MIDI keyboard, sometimes to mimic the one or several keys on a real piano that are slightly out of regulation, but still pleasant--the one note or two that you have to be careful about hitting too hard. The blemishes that make us adjust may make us listen and play a bit more carefully? And does any real piano have a velocity response across all of the keys as even as a MIDI keyboard, especially a few months after regulation?

Last edited by Jake Johnson (18-01-2018 20:41)

Reply by sandalholme

  • Avatar
  • sandalholme
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 17-06-2014
  • Posts: 337

Re: black & white key velocity curves in Std; note-by-note in Pro

"And does any real piano have a velocity response across all of the keys as even as a MIDI keyboard, especially a few months after regulation?"

A good point, Jake, but it can also apply to keyboards.  I play my ES7 a lot and after a few years one note in the middle octave just stopped sounding. The 2 inner ?sense pads? - not sure what they are actually called - were replaced and suddenly I had what appeared to be a brand new action. (I played acoustic grands for decades and yes, I was used to being aware of notes that needed particular care, being too loud/harsh or too soft. The breaks often were the source of this) I posted recently re the Grotrian providing a similar effect of having a new action - these were 2 separate events.

The outer "pads" are now showing similar signs and in Pro I reduced the forte hammer hardness and volume of the lowest but one B, also a much higher note, forget which one.  The reason why I remember the B is that it has recently sounded softer, thus I have reversed the adjustment. So there are similarities in terms of adjusting the "action" for irregularities.

There are of course the irregularities caused by room acoustics, which we can also mitigate.

So, we need to be our own technician. At least it only costs our time ...........