This might sound like a silly question but I'm gonna ask it anyway. I think that both the Steinway B and Grotrian sound better than the Steinway D, for the music I make at least. I want to buy one of them, but have a hard time deciding.
I know I can try the demos, and compare, but I still want to hear your view on this. Which one do you prefer, and for what musical style? Any comments are welcome - want to spend my final €49 wisely.
Probably going for Steinway B. A tad more versatile in my opinion.
I own the Steinway Model B and I think it is better musically than Grotrian. I tried the Grotrian and do not think much of it in my opinion.
One that does get looked over a lot is the U4. You get the right reverb on it etc it sounds great and a lot more musical than any of the grand pianos. Of course this is highly subjective.
Of course this is highly subjective.
I agree, since I prefer Grotrian
Tuff call .. I have all the pianos and on somedays I like one more than another...also depends on what speakers or headphones I am using... I guess I am no help...sigh...
My very subjective impression:
D4 - is about "that sound" you hear on famous recordings from Horowitz, Rubinstein, etc. Classical Steinway.
Bluethner - quite a character, deep and interesting flavor. Some says romantic sound, but it can still be used anywhere. The most "specific" one.
K2 - general vanilla grand, balanced and everything, clean. Good for certain tasks, but lacks a character a bit.
Model B - clean studio type grand, have that Steinway flavor but somewhat on a too clean side. A bit glassy-glossy to my taste. Although it was second to last models released and therefore it is quite a very advanced model. Modern chamber Steinway. (I prefer vintage ones any day).
Grotrian - the latest model, very advanced one. To me it is like the mix of all best qualities from other models, by little from everywhere, have warmth and character but not too much, and still quite "studio clean" at the same time. My everyday practice choice. It have it's own "bel canto" personality but not that much "in your face" one, very delicate but very expressive and powerful at the same time.
Again, based on my very subjective subconscious impressions, which come, I believe, not only from my own experience but from what I could hear from other people too.
Suggestion:
Flip a coin and purchase either one of them. One month from now, purchase the other one. You won't be sorry. You will have these pianos for years to come, and will long have forgotten how much they cost.
Cheers,
Joe
(P.S. When I think of all of the thousands of dollars of money I have wasted over the years -- mostly in the early 2000's ... on hardware piano modules and string- and vocal expansion modules from well-known suppliers, and spending perhaps 10 times as much as each PTQ offering .. makes my head spin -- especially when most of those expensive pieces of equipment contained sampled sounds of only 32MB to perhaps 128MEGAbytes, not gigabytes, worth of data!)
Thanks for al the interesting replies! I think I've decided on the Steinway B, but there's something to that Grotrian that I also want, so I might do as one of suggested and buy them both eventually.
I said that before, I am impressed by the new YC5 Home preset (but I like the player's perspective)
You are right about the glassy sound of the Model B especially up in the higher end of the keys it becomes very apparent. I think both Steinway's do to some measure.
I think they have also thinned out the Model B in PTQ 6 too, as the low end was a bit thicker in the earlier version.
I would love to see a Shigeru Kawai Grand modeled, now that is a thing of beauty. Not too much into many Kawai uprights, sound wise anyway. But the Shigeru is a really beautiful instrument.
Agree. The bass notes bottom octave sound really ineffective on the model B particularly on PT6. In fact, nearly all the grands sound this way on PT6, but not on 5. I keep trying out 6 hoping to find that sweet spot . . .ever hoping. But really, I'm very happy with 5.80 version.
For some reason I can never get anything other than a weak low vol unusable sound with the U4. Maybe I shouldn't have frozen so many parameters . . . .
Between the two of them, I choose Steinway B.
The bass notes bottom octave sound really ineffective on the model B particularly on PT6. In fact, nearly all the grands sound this way on PT6, but not on 5.
are you using a sub? a good powered sub with gain pot & cutoffs is definitely your friend here...
I love the Steinway B, but generally prefer the Grotrian, which has a remarkable character.
I love all the choices Pianoteq provides.
+1 to everyone's response.
Personally, I would be happy with either Steinway B -- OR -- Grotrian. Put another way, I would NOT be saddened or would not experience "buyer's remorse" with either purchase.
Cheers,
Joe
I enjoy these types of discussions. If forces me to rethink some of my bias.
The Grotrian has never grabbed me; now, I plan to use it for my next practice session to see what I am missing.
OK, I've changed my mind, Grotrian is the sh*t! Especially the first preset. With the soft pedal plus some compression, it also makes for a perfect cinematic piano.
OK, I've changed my mind, Grotrian is the sh*t! Especially the first preset. With the soft pedal plus some compression, it also makes for a perfect cinematic piano.
It's more than okay to change one's mind! The great thing is that we have all of these choices available to us. On some days, one piano and/or one setting within a given piano might grab us; on other days, sometimes a completely different piano or preset might shock us into thinking differently how we might approach a piece.
These days, I find myself looking for different interpretations of various classical piano works. To me, there is much more to discover in a great new interpretation than in the sound of a given recording. Witness some of the ancient mono recordings of an Alfred Cortot or Josef Hoffmann, or Ignaz Friedmann: sometimes these interpretations of an earlier century make me think I am hearing a familiar piano piece "for the first time"!
Cheers,
Joe
I just love the number of presets the large Steinway has. Between that and the Blüthner I'm in Pianoteq heaven.
I would also recommend the U4. I preferred it to all the others a while back - it sounded by far the most realistic of all the pianos, and it was the only one that made me forget sometimes that I was not actually playing an acoustic piano.
Then I moved rooms and now the U4 doesn't sound the same at all any more - exact same setup, just a smaller and lower room, but its not the same at all. So I use the D4 mainly now. I think the Grotian also sounded better before the move and the Bluethner worse. Bizarre... But fun...
Aidan, you make a point that some overlook. It demonstrates the importance of room acoustics on sound, an issue well known to buyers of acoustic pianos, which sound wonderful in the showroom and less so at home. It also illustrates the realism of the Pianoteq models: the sound of different instruments changes in different ways to the change of room acoustics.
I have experienced the 'acoustic piano' issue. My last Kawai grand was greatly improved by a day's work by a Kawai master piano technician on site. Re Pianoteq, I have re-tweaked instruments after moving house and also when moving up from PT5 Standard to PT6 Pro. We are very fortunate in having a product that we can change to suit different circumstances without having to pay for technicians.
One further point which illustrates the realism of Pianoteq. I have played many acoustic grands, privately and publicly, so can adapt quite quickly to different instruments. I am aware of the same need in switching from one Pianoteq piano to another, if I have been playing one for several days it takes a short while to adapt to another.
Re the B versus Grotrian, I was very impressed with the B when it appeared, then even more so by the Grotrian. (In PT5) It really seemed as if a technician had done some work on the action. (I have a Kawai ES7 - not the most sensitive of digital "actions" but good enough) The Grotrian in PT6 is smoother, more integrated, a warmer sound that suits Romantic music. (I am exclusively a classical player) Coloured, yes, but colouration I like. I struggled to get a good sound from the new D, but now enjoy Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven on this, having used the Pro spectrum facility to fill out a slight hollowness around the octave or so above middle C. Not a criticism of Pianoteq, again an adjustment to the acoustics and my sound system. I'm not sure there is a niche - for me - for the B now I can enjoy the D.
Hopefully Aidan you have at least PT Standard and can tweak the sounds appropriately.
Yes I have the Standard and am happy. Can't blame the instrument anymore alas...
Hey there! I have quite similar question, so i decided to post it here. I'm learning to play piano and I have Sohmer Baby Grand 1960 Piano. My teacher has Steinway piano...And the difference is amazing! Steinway plays so smoothly, and the key stroke is short and smooth (unlike my piano). It sounds much more better!! I can afford a Steinway or something like this.., but I wonder if, as a beginner, I really need such a nice piano, how do you think?
One more question - what's the difference between horizontal and vertical piano? Found this article http://pianobrands.info/types-of-pianos/ , and it seems clear for me, but what about the sound? Thanks in advance for any replies to this post.
@Mr. PianoMagician:
Have you considered a refurbished acoustic Steinway Model M? You can obtain one for the price of a new apartment-sized Yamaha grand or similar piano and for about half the price of a new Yamaha AvantGrand! Yes, I know: there are good ones and there are excellent refurbished ones and there are poor-to-mediocre refurbished ones. Perhaps an unbiased opinion from a trusted piano technician (not related to the refurbishing party) might be of most help here. A good Steinway Model M (5'7") in a living space is probably all that 95% of the piano playing public would require. (Yes, I would prefer a model B or D, but let's be realistic here!)
* * * * * * *
Regarding how Pianoteq sounds: The sound of any electronically reproduced music is clearly dependent on speaker design, speaker placement within a room, and of the room's own acoustic signature. Let's face it: Speakers are designed to be placed into rooms. (As a corollary: If you were to place a six-figure audiophile setup in an open field and listen to it, the sound would surely be thin and unattractive.)
So the byword here is: experiment! Experiment on speaker placement, experiment with various presets of any given Pianoteq instrument per given piece you play. You may well find you like model "X" Preset "Y" for one piece, and might like Model Y with Preset Y or X or anything else --- even for the same piece but played at a different tempo. Vive la difference!!!
Cheers,
Joe
Very big thank you, Joe!!Cheers!
I recorded one of my original Gymnopedies in the style of Erik Satie and ran it through all the pianos.
I listened to each of the pianos and found in the end to like the Steinway B. I just found it clearer and less aggressive. and just more beautiful. This piano works great for solo tracks but perhaps would not be first choice for jazz ensemble, rock group, or for a symphonic setting.
BTW, the most famous piece ever to use the Bluthner was the Beatles' LET IT BE.
gpt
Must admit to liking them all really. But I've been practising on the Bechstein from the vintage collection which I bought some time ago. It is tremendously powerful, and imo difficult to beat for realism. Seems to have the noises you get from an acoustic which I'd rather you didn't; maybe that's why I like it so much.
I only bought the Steingraeber and the Kremsegg volume with the Bechstein. Still, it was the Schubert sonata demo on the Pianoteq 6 Steinway B that convinced me I had to have Pianoteq. I'll never forget hearing that demo for the first time. Pianoteq simply nailed all the subtleties that are the mark of a first-rate concert pianist on a wonderful piano. Of course it also shows me in no uncertain terms that I am not such a pianist! ;-)
So the Steinway B is my next piano, but I need to buy them all.
I love the Steinway B. It is perfect for my short, lyrical piano pieces. Favorite preset is the Recording 1 which utilizes paired bi-directional mics a few feet away from the piano. Nice balance between direct sound and room ambience. I like to take away a bit of the highs using a low pass filter.