1

Topic: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Would love to hear thoughts from anyone who has these four endorsed beauties.
Which one do you prefer and why?

Pianoteq 6 with Blüthner Model One / Steinway Model D / Vintage Electric Pianos & Hohner Collection

2

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

That’s a difficult choice (I have all four)

As a subjective opinion- -

* The Steinway D has the beautiful classic, flat, neutral (not too idiosyncratic regarding individual notes or ranges), but well-defined and consistent response across the keyboard range.

* The Steinway B has more character and is nice not only for general purposes, but for certain types of music such as jazz, and for a more intimate sound, such as in a home, studio or small conservatory.

* The Grotrian has a rich, warm, full sound, but with plenty of definition for rapidly-played passages.

* The Bluthner sounds lush and gorgeous, especially for pieces or playing that is slower or more lyrical, but also has detail and definition.

If I had to give up one of the four, it would be the Steinway B, although I wouldn’t want to do so because I love it, and only because I could rely upon it’s “big brother” the Steinway D instead. I would not give up the Grotrian or the Bluthner. wink

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (15-10-2017 19:09)

3

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Thank you, Stephen, for taking the time to compare them. I also saw that Steinway D (not B) has many more presets than the other ones.
Edit: first wrote B, but I mean D.
On another perspective, I find the Grotrian and Blüthner somewhat comparable in lushness.

Last edited by Fleer (15-10-2017 20:13)
Pianoteq 6 with Blüthner Model One / Steinway Model D / Vintage Electric Pianos & Hohner Collection

4

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

I have to agree with Mr. Doonan:

As an owner of all four pianos, I refuse to enter a conversation about which one I would give up.  Each piano is unique, and I enjoy using them in a variety of repertoire.  Restated, there is no "one" piano for "one" usage; I enjoy making different music on the same piece depending which piano I happen to be using.

Cheers,

Joe

5

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

jcfelice88keys wrote:

I have to agree with Mr. Doonan:

As an owner of all four pianos, I refuse to enter a conversation about which one I would give up.  Each piano is unique, and I enjoy using them in a variety of repertoire.  Restated, there is no "one" piano for "one" usage; I enjoy making different music on the same piece depending which piano I happen to be using.

Cheers,

Joe

Thank you, Joe. But if you were to advise someone to choose two out of these four?
Edit: I should maybe add that I'm mostly into singer songwriter stuff, somewhat classical but not too complex.
So, yet another perspective, maybe Blüthner for sweet easy listening and Grotrian for Johann Sebastian Bach?

Last edited by Fleer (15-10-2017 20:31)
Pianoteq 6 with Blüthner Model One / Steinway Model D / Vintage Electric Pianos & Hohner Collection

6

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

I have them all... it depends on what I use to listen with.. different head phones or speaker set ups. Different pianos sound better or worse depending on that for me...I do love them all though.

7

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

First off, I must state that I am NOT an employee of Modartt:  I make no commissions from the sale of Pianoteq models.

There is not a single piano model in the bunch that you would "go wrong" by purchasing.  It is not as though Choices A, B and C are fantastic ... but Choice X is a dud. (Note that I did not use the term Choice D, so as to avoid confusion with the Steinway D.)

The Grotrian and Blüthner would be make excellent choices of your intended usage.  You will enjoy immediate gratification by these two instruments as you go through the presets and marvel at how they respond to your musical touch.

Cheers,

Joe

8

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

I only have the Bluthner and the Model B.  I love the Bluthner, but find the bass of the Model B to be really raunchy.  it sounds like a piano where the wound strings need to be replaced.  It could be my speakers, but for whatever reason I'm really disappointed in the Model B which in real life are great pianos.

Last edited by GRB (16-10-2017 15:51)
Pianoteq Pro 6.x - Linux Mint 18.2 - Mate Desktop

9

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

GRB wrote:

I find the bass of the Model B to be really raunchy.  it sounds like a piano where the wound strings need to be replaced.

That’s intentional and realistic.

The Steinway Model B is a small, studio or home grand piano with short bass strings that are wound with heavy copper wire in order to make them vibrate more slowly, at the intended low frequencies. This heavy bass wire causes a great deal of inharmonicity and overtones. Use Pianoteq’s String Length slider/parameter to increase the length of the strings of the Model B, which will increase the volume and purity of the fundamental frequency/tone while decreasing the overtones and metallic harmonics. The Model B will then sound more like a larger grand piano, especially in the bass range.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (16-10-2017 16:41)

10

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
GRB wrote:

I find the bass of the Model B to be really raunchy.  it sounds like a piano where the wound strings need to be replaced.

That’s intentional and realistic.

The Steinway Model B is a small, studio or home grand piano with short bass strings that are wound with heavy copper wire in order to make them vibrate more slowly, at the intended low frequencies. This heavy bass wire causes a great deal of inharmonicity and overtones. Use Pianoteq’s String Length slider/parameter to increase the length of the strings of the Model B, which will increase the volume and purity of the fundamental frequency/tone while decreasing the overtones and metallic harmonics. The Model B will then sound more like a larger grand piano, especially in the bass range.

Thanks I'll try that, but the Model B is actually a 7' piano as far as I know.

http://www.steinway.com/pianos/steinway/grand/model-b/

Pianoteq Pro 6.x - Linux Mint 18.2 - Mate Desktop

11

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Fleer wrote:

Would love to hear thoughts from anyone who has these four endorsed beauties.
Which one do you prefer and why?

Guess it depends on you and on what you are playing. My favorite is the Steinway B but they're all worthy instruments.

12

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

GRB wrote:

Thanks I'll try that, but the Model B is actually a 7' piano as far as I know.

The longest bass string in a Steinway Model B is a little over 59 inches.
The longest bass string in a Steinway Model D is a little over 79 inches.

Adjust the string length of the Model B in Pianoteq if you object to the characteristic metallic inharmonicity of the bass range.

- - -

From http://asa.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1121/1.1917803

The inharmonicity is greatest in the extreme bass strings. The inharmonicity is twice as great in the upright piano as in the medium grand piano, and for the lowest eight strings of the medium grand (which are single) the inharmonicity is, in turn, roughly twice that for the concert grand piano.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (16-10-2017 20:26)

13

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Anyone care to shed his or her thoughts on playing JS Bach's Goldberg Variations? Grotrian or Steinway B?

Pianoteq 6 with Blüthner Model One / Steinway Model D / Vintage Electric Pianos & Hohner Collection

14

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Fleer wrote:

Anyone care to shed his or her thoughts on playing JS Bach's Goldberg Variations? Grotrian or Steinway B?

While I don't own the Grotian, my best guess would be the Grotian, however the range of the Goldbergs is not that great so it might sound fine on the Model B which does have a mid range and treble with lots of life.  I only play the Aria and Variation 25 and those two are mellow in character.  I like this version the best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duVAAq422h0
I feel the string trio brings them out in a way that is impossible on the piano.  If you want a more authentic Pinaoteq version, play them on the harpsichord, but I warn you it's very unforgiving.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSXj48lkFew

Last edited by GRB (17-10-2017 00:44)
Pianoteq Pro 6.x - Linux Mint 18.2 - Mate Desktop

15

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Fleer wrote:

Anyone care to shed his or her thoughts on playing JS Bach's Goldberg Variations? Grotrian or Steinway B?

I believe Gould's original 1955 Goldberg variations were on a Steinway model CD - and that sound is imprinted on my mind. To my ears, among the 4 ones discussed in this thread, the D is probably closest to it  - but you really can't go wrong with any of these 4!

Osho

16

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Thank you, gentlemen. I remember Gould changing to a Yamaha C7 later in life, but his Steinway performance indeed is the one we know best. Still, maybe Grotrian would be better, definitely for the mellow variations like the '25', but maybe also for the fast ones. I'm with Angela Hewitt that many of Bach's harpsichord compositions just play and sound better on a good grand. But those strings, just wonderful indeed.

Pianoteq 6 with Blüthner Model One / Steinway Model D / Vintage Electric Pianos & Hohner Collection

17

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Fleer wrote:

Thank you, gentlemen. I remember Gould changing to a Yamaha C7 later in life, but his Steinway performance indeed is the one we know best. Still, maybe Grotrian would be better, definitely for the mellow variations like the '25', but maybe also for the fast ones. I'm with Angela Hewitt that many of Bach's harpsichord compositions just play and sound better on a good grand. But those strings, just wonderful indeed.

Actually, Mr. Gould personally purchased a used 9' Yamaha CFII, just around the block from Carnegie Hall in NYC.  Please note that it was not a C7 as stated above.  It was on this CFII that Gould recorded the Goldberg Variations a second time (this time digitally recording the event). 

Here is the URL:

https://ca.yamaha.com/en/news_events/20 … _80th.html

Cheers,

Joe

EDIT:  For everyone's information, Steinway's fleet of touring Model D pianos was christened with the letter notation CD as in Gould's CD318.  The C stood for "Concert" [Model D].

End Edit

Last edited by jcfelice88keys (17-10-2017 03:10)

18

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Bach can be realised, very effectively, on a grand piano. Modartt has however provided the appropriate instrument: the Ruckers. Ideally you need 2 keyboards for the "deux claviers" variations, but the Goldbergs are amongst the few Bach works for harpsichord rather than possibly clavichord. So, no graduated dynamics. For me, a good harpsichord performance beats a similarly good piano performance. IMHO of course.

19

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

sandalholme wrote:

Bach can be realised, very effectively, on a grand piano. Modartt has however provided the appropriate instrument: the Ruckers. Ideally you need 2 keyboards for the "deux claviers" variations, but the Goldbergs are amongst the few Bach works for harpsichord rather than possibly clavichord. So, no graduated dynamics. For me, a good harpsichord performance beats a similarly good piano performance. IMHO of course.

Yes, interesting how the two greatest composers of all time - Mozart and Bach - often composed for instruments of limited dynamic range.

20

Re: Steinway D, Steinway B, Grotrian or Blüthner

Stephen_Doonan..
oh .. and many interesting articles on this resource ..
eg: http://asa.scitation.org/topic/6552