1

Topic: Using AvantGrand N2 with Pianoteq?

Sorry, I posted this in the wrong forum so I thought I would copy it over to here.

Just curious if anyone is using an AvantGrand N2 with Pianoteq. I noticed that it is quite hard to get a high velocity value (something typically above 100). I really have to bang the heck out of it to get something high. Something along the lines of 120 is as high as I could get. I wonder if that is Yamaha's way of making it more realistic.

Also, I heard some are sending the output of Pianoteq back into the AvantGrand and blending the sound with the piano's internal sound. I thought that was interesting, but would think that the sound from Pianoteq would be slightly behind the sound from the internal piano.

The pedal sends continuous midi values up to 79, after that it jumps to 127. This is that point of pressing the pedal about halfway down. Not sure if that is normal or not. Also, I frequently see "Aftertouch" events happening, which i don't recall seeing with my YPD-181.

Thanks!

Last edited by bSharpCyclist (04-10-2017 18:44)

2

Re: Using AvantGrand N2 with Pianoteq?

Hello bSharpCyclist,

I might be able to contribute to your first question. I have the Yamaha Grantouch GT2, which is a similar idea (hybrid piano) but at least one generation older. I also found that I really have to pound the piano and it still would not go to 127. The solution is to adjust the velocity curve to tailor / "map" your touch, your piano and the midi velocity sent. For instance, you could set it so that the "pounding" that you think should trigger the loudest and hardest tone, to 127. This way you can "map" your keyboard touch pretty much in any way you like. I want to add that it is important to do the same in the soft end of the spectrum as well.

My two cents...

Roger

3

Re: Using AvantGrand N2 with Pianoteq?

Thanks for the reply. I have played around with the velocity curve. I'm just checking to see if this a normal response from the N2. Seems as it is. I have to admit though, I'm having a hard time thinking sound from Pianoteq is any better. Not that it's bad or anything. Probably need to tweak things on my end.

4

Re: Using AvantGrand N2 with Pianoteq?

In terms of whether Pianoteq sound is any better than the AvantGrand N2 internal sounds, I think lots of people probably think that Pianoteq does not sound any better. I personally think that Pianoteq has improved to the point that the difference is negligible. This is, in essence, a variation of the sampled vs. modelling debate. The AvantGrand N2 sounds are sample based, and sampled based pianos are typically very realistic. However, the downside is that it is static or "canned" in nature (just replaying a recorded sound), and that one does not really feel a real connection with the sound.

Pianoteq, on the other hand, is based on modelling, which the notes are generated in real time; depending on your touch, other concurrent notes...etc. each note is a unique event. In this regard it is much more similar to a real piano. Thus the "playability", or "connectability" is much better than sampled pianos.

So, to evaluate pianoteq against the AvantGrand sounds, focus the whole playing experience and not individual notes. If the sound is not inferior, then I think Pianoteq has been very successful indeed, and will probably result in an much more satisfying overall experience.

Last edited by lo134 (05-10-2017 12:19)

5

Re: Using AvantGrand N2 with Pianoteq?

lo134 wrote:

In terms of whether Pianoteq sound is any better than the AvantGrand N2 internal sounds, I think lots of people probably think that Pianoteq does not sound any better. I personally think that Pianoteq has improved to the point that the difference is negligible. This is, in essence, a variation of the sampled vs. modelling debate. The AvantGrand N2 sounds are sample based, and sampled based pianos are typically very realistic. However, the downside is that it is static or "canned" in nature (just replaying a recorded sound), and that one does not really feel a real connection with the sound.

Pianoteq, on the other hand, is based on modelling, which the notes are generated in real time; depending on your touch, other concurrent notes...etc. each note is a unique event. In this regard it is much more similar to a real piano. Thus the "playability", or "connectability" is much better than sampled pianos.

So, to evaluate pianoteq against the AvantGrand sounds, focus the whole playing experience and not individual notes. If the sound is not inferior, then I think Pianoteq has been very successful indeed, and will probably result in an must more satisfying experience.

It's important to get the right velocity curve to have a good experience with a virtual piano like Pianoteq. As far as getting a Pianoteq to sound better through the N2 speakers than the N2 piano voices, that might be tough. Yamaha's engineers designed the speakers around the piano and tweaked the piano so it would sound optimal through those speakers.

With the right velocity and eq, you'll probably be good - but it might take some time.

Pianoteq 6 Std, Bluthner, Model B, Grotian, YC5, Hohner, Kremsegg #1, Electric Pianos. Roland FP-90, Windows 10 quad core, Xenyx Q802USB, Yamaha HS8 monitors, Audio Technica
ATH-M50x headphones.

6

Re: Using AvantGrand N2 with Pianoteq?

@beakybird
What is your opinion or assessment of your Audio Technica ATH-M50x headphones, if you don’t mind making a few comments about them?

7

Re: Using AvantGrand N2 with Pianoteq?

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

@beakybird
What is your opinion or assessment of your Audio Technica ATH-M50x headphones, if you don’t mind making a few comments about them?

I think that they are INCREDIBLE! They are probably average as far as comfort, but they don't bother me. It's not bass heavy like headphones for rap musicians, but I can feel the bass in my body when I'm playing. The upper harmonics of the P6 acoustics sound angelic.

I have compared these playing Pianoteq with the HD650, Beyerdynamic DT770 80Ohm, and the HIFiman HE400S (with focus pads), and I preferred the cheapest of the bunch. I did use a good headphone amp for the high impedance cans.

With headphones, you can always second guess whether you're getting the best sound possible, and there are dozens of great headphones out there. So much is a matter of taste.

I can safely say that the Audio Technica is a safe bet with Pianoteq if you want to buy something inexpensive and great sounding.

I feel safe saying that the ATH-M50x headphones are accurate in how they sound because they pretty closely mirror the sound I get from my Yamaha HS8 speakers which are pretty highly regarded monitors.

Sorry for hijacking the thread!

Pianoteq 6 Std, Bluthner, Model B, Grotian, YC5, Hohner, Kremsegg #1, Electric Pianos. Roland FP-90, Windows 10 quad core, Xenyx Q802USB, Yamaha HS8 monitors, Audio Technica
ATH-M50x headphones.

8

Re: Using AvantGrand N2 with Pianoteq?

ATH-M50x and ATH-M40x also are safe bet and sounds excellent with Pianoteq.

Last edited by slobajudge (05-10-2017 08:34)

9

Re: Using AvantGrand N2 with Pianoteq?

I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 pro which I quite like. Been using them for almost 2 years now.