1

Topic: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

MP3 can be acceptable, but not rich in bits.
LP can be better, if very well recorded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJv7r89 … p;index=41


Why not a commemorative LP with pianoteq music, recorded in the best possible digital frequency and bit richness, to transfer for LP?

Just a idea. I know budget for that is not out there.

Last edited by Beto-Music (23-07-2017 16:06)

2

Re: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

I'm going to try hard and avoid an argument over Vinly vs. MP3 vs. (insert format of choice here), but the basic flaw in your argument is that your Pianoteq LP is going to start as digital and it can be happily and perfectly accurately transfered and played by any digital device.  The limitation is going to be the audio sub-system (i.e. the DAC and earphones/speakers), rather than anything else.

For the record (no pun) I'm of the view that modern codec used in high quality digital formats are at least as good as vinyl in practice, but that's not the issue here.  The point is that you're starting from a digital source so you're going to get no better than that.  All vinyl would do is complicate things - it can't add quality.

3

Re: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

The idea is interesting if equipment still exists to record the sounds emanating from the piano through studio quality analogue equipment. In other words, the sound being picked up in the recording studio is analogue and if that analogue sound is passed through the old-style LP recording/pressing process, the result would be the equivalent of an LP. I got rid of my vinyl years' ago so am not an LP fan, but I do believe there is a difference. I believe I can experience a difference in the higher bit rate in current BBC broadcasts compared with CDs, but this conclusion is possibly compromised by the difference between studio performances and live performances. (I much prefer (in general) the immediacy of live performances, warts and all (just stop coughing and applauding between movements!) to the studio performance. So I am more inclined to respond more postitively to a live performance.

Certainly a comparison of the same performance being passed through a completely digital process and a completely analogue process might reveal differences but so much depends on the end equipment*, individual ear "performance" and personal history/preference/prejudice.

* Not sure if even high end speakers etc can be differentiated in terms of what suits analogue better than digital and vice versa. Once different "end product" equipment is used, comparisons are meaningless.

This of course connects with Pianoteq products in that product development is tested with specific high end equipment.  We are very privileged to have so many ways of adjusting that standard of output to what we prefer via our own equipment but what he hear and enjoy will not be quite the same as the sound Moddart approved for release.

4

Re: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

I wasn't my intent to be much tecnical.  It's more about art, a homage, since pianoteq it's reaching such realism it could be put into a analog system and people would feel it as a real piano recording.

Anyway, there is few actual LP that was initially recorded in digital studios. Advanced digital recording it's different than MP3 or even CD, frequency and richness of bits ...  CD it's "square", the low bit number make such thing poor for edition. Studio digital recording use much higher quality.  Digital are not always all the same thing.

PunBB bbcode test


I'm not against MP3, just against poor quality MP3.

About audio system, speakers, phones... Not sure. People today listem in any place, usually by cell phone or ipod with small fone direct into the ears, usually of low quality. In LP times they listened in living rooms with large speakers system or large headphones.

Some people can listem 5.1 sound, but a lot of people use things like Creative Labs 5.1 PC kit, which have low quality speakers.

Last edited by Beto-Music (23-07-2017 16:16)

5

Re: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

I was so glad when vinyl LP records, with all their problems of degradation, warping, pops and crackles caused by dust, scratches and imperfections, were finally replaced with durable CDs and digital recording techniques, and those techniques have only improved in subsequent years.

I'm sorry that a simple sentimental nostalgia is giving vinyl LPs a reputation and a new community of enthusiasts that neither the recording medium nor the analogue recording technology to hissy and otherwise problematic tape deserve. smile

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (23-07-2017 16:18)

6

Re: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

I'm not asking the return of vinyl LP... I just talked about a kind of art homage.

CDs can oxidate. Vinyl if not used do not.
Digital film restorations are being also recorded back into chemical film, cause no one trusts in digital archiving for long term.

Quality digital iit's the best way !   But a lot of the digital around today have low quality, due high compression, like music in some compressed video, or a lot of artefacting or waxy image details due video over compression.
I don't understand why people do not complain about digital video artefacts and waxy details (or complete lost details). For sound people complain what they can spot, a hix, a noise, a crack/pop. But when it lacks detail people can't spot/name and let it go.

I downloaed a 4K video made by the TV manufecturer for demonstrations, and despite it have 1GB for justb 89 seconds, and despite the camera was stopped and just few thing moving in the location, I could spot all artefacts, poor gradints (banding instead of real gradient).  Most people don't see that or don't want to see.

Stephen_Doonan wrote:

I was so glad when vinyl LP records, with all their problems of degradation, warping, pops and crackles caused by dust, scratches and imperfections, were finally replaced with durable CDs and digital recording techniques, and those techniques have only improved in subsequent years.

I'm sorry that a simple sentimental nostalgia is giving vinyl LPs a reputation and a new community of enthusiasts that neither the recording medium nor the analogue recording technology to hissy and otherwise problematic tape deserve. smile

Last edited by Beto-Music (23-07-2017 16:51)

7

Re: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

I'm sorry, but there is no reality to this " little square" view. See this classic video for explanation of how digital sampling really works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

8

Re: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

I don't want to enter in such details or argue about interpolation. It's polemic.
I talked about edition. For edition you need to start with richer sound recording. If you will use filters you need to start with prime digital and not the quality of the final consumers media.

Anway I started the topic about a interesting homage, and not really to discuss analogic X digital sound.

Gilles wrote:

I'm sorry, but there is no reality to this " little square" view. See this classic video for explanation of how digital sampling really works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

Last edited by Beto-Music (23-07-2017 16:49)

9

Re: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

It's not polemic, it's facts. smile

Also, 16-bits are perfectly enough for editing audio. Of course 24 bits is better,  but that "better" is really reflected only on transient-rich material, like drums, percussion, and similar stuff. For most other stuff, 16-bit resolution is perfectly satisfactory for editing. Especially filters don't really care if something is 16-bit, 32-bit or 4-bit. They will do their job regardless, since they are not looking at bit depth at all, they only care about samples themselves - so, sample rate is what matters. Not bit depth.

Hard work and guts!

10

Re: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

It is nice as an idea, interesting homage. However, I dont know much of the technical details in this topic, but I can still hear, listen. So, why move a cup from one table to another - to me Pianoteq music already feels as a real piano recording. Well, thats what I think about it.

11

Re: Pianoteq deserves a LP.

Thanks, at least one understoods me  :-)

If you already find pianoteq 5.8.1 as a natural piano, who knows...  maybe version 6 get so good you will find it supernatural.

Pianoteqenthusiast wrote:

It is nice as an idea, interesting homage. However, I dont know much of the technical details in this topic, but I can still hear, listen. So, why move a cup from one table to another - to me Pianoteq music already feels as a real piano recording. Well, thats what I think about it.

Last edited by Beto-Music (23-07-2017 22:40)