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Topic: More upright piano options?

I've been toying with the demo version of the U4 upright, and it just doesn't seem to do the trick for me.
As an example of what I'm looking for, I guess that older & 'cheaper' upright pianos have a certain sound characteristic I'm after for.

For example, my family owns an old Daynes-Beebe upright piano passed down from my grandma (still has the original ivory keys!)
It has quite a different sound characteristic; it is much less sharp even at the highest dynamic. I even bare-bones sampled it a while ago (because I am no player, and I really liked the sound of it).

I know someone that made use of those samples (I made them public domain);
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8nNU1JJlz4
Of course it won't be as dynamic and lively as Pianoteq (I only sampled two dynamic layers, and not every single note) but it should serve as an example of the character I'm going for.
I'm wondering if there are signs that Modartt will be adding more upright options to Pianoteq, or if it's possible to make adjustments the U4 to achieve a similar sound? As the U4 is, it just isn't the kind of sound I am looking for, though it definitely has upright characteristics, and I haven't heard any similar demos among the user presets.

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Re: More upright piano options?

It sounds so heavy. Give the feeling it weight twice as much as a usual upright piano.

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Re: More upright piano options?

I agree, it sounds very heavy to me, too. In my opinion, it might be impossible to get exactly the same sound, the certain  sound characteristic you are after. Because of the space, room, where the piano is. Any reverb in Ptq will only give different ”rooms”, so it will never be quite identical. But, I have Ptq Standard, and it is possible to make many many adjustments to U4, to achive the sound of old pianos.
By the way, remember some years ago people in this forum tried to get same sound as Joe Hisaishi playing ”Friends”, Youtube. And they got very close. We can probably do anything we set out to accomplish with Ptq, if we try enough, if we doubt, we can not. And, I have said it before - this ”soundarea” is of course,  something that will never be completed, and that is the way it has to be – continued improvement. Well, thats what I think about it.

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Re: More upright piano options?

Here is one possibility for imitating the sound you want, starting from preset U4 a la Monk:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/file/84pcry9g

I found the MIDI file but I didn't edit it (since some parts are lower in volume). I just played with the Volume Note Edit to simulate this. I also didn't try to imitate the huge reverb, just a rather dry sound. See what you think. There are so many options in Pianoteq that it is possible to bring U4 close enough to most old uprights.

I also used a special convolution file (knock.wav) available here: https://sites.google.com/site/ptqspecprof/temp

Last edited by Gilles (25-06-2017 14:48)

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Re: More upright piano options?

The only way I was able to recreate similar sounds with Pianoteq was through speakers trapped inside a wooden box to have a soundbox similar to an upright piano.

Last edited by Lucy (25-06-2017 16:04)

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Re: More upright piano options?

Lucy wrote:

The only way I was able to recreate similar sounds with Pianoteq was through speakers trapped inside a wooden box to have a soundbox similar to an upright piano.

That's what the knock.wav convolution adds: The interior sound of a large upright cabinet.

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Re: More upright piano options?

Gilles wrote:

Here is one possibility for imitating the sound you want, starting from preset U4 a la Monk:

http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/file/84pcry9g

I found the MIDI file but I didn't edit it (since some parts are lower in volume). I just played with the Volume Note Edit to simulate this. I also didn't try to imitate the huge reverb, just a rather dry sound. See what you think. There are so many options in Pianoteq that it is possible to bring U4 close enough to most old uprights.

I also used a special convolution file (knock.wav) available here: https://sites.google.com/site/ptqspecprof/temp

I'll have to check this out once I've got around to upgrading to Standard, unless I can ask for time out of your day to get a simple audio demo. Thanks!
That also gives me the idea to try recording an impulse response from the cabinet of the original piano itself, once I get Standard.

Last edited by Lotias (25-06-2017 22:23)

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Re: More upright piano options?

Lotias wrote:

I'll have to check this out once I've got around to upgrading to Standard, unless I can ask for time out of your day to get a simple audio demo.

Did you click on the "More..." button to hear the audio demo?

Last edited by Gilles (25-06-2017 22:31)

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Re: More upright piano options?

Gilles wrote:
Lotias wrote:

I'll have to check this out once I've got around to upgrading to Standard, unless I can ask for time out of your day to get a simple audio demo.

Did you click on the "More..." button to hear the audio demo?

Oh, I hadn't realized, sorry. Thank you greatly. It doesn't sound quite like it (too sharp!), but I guess it IS closer. I'll have to see how close I can get after the upgrade.

Last edited by Lotias (25-06-2017 22:35)

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Re: More upright piano options?

One thing I've tried with the U4 is raising the overall volume using the Volume slider, and then reducing the amplitude of the upper 4 partials in the Spectrum profile, and then making adjustments to Hammer hardness and Dynamics, etc.  The sound becomes more like the uprights that I know.

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Re: More upright piano options?

Thanks for the "Knock.wav" file!  That's completely cool - very much like my upright, which I've now been going back and forth from Pianoteq to acoustic to try to adjust settings to match.

So far, I have taken the Envelope down to -8.0 dB/sec, and reduced the mixer to -9.0 dB (but I keep playing).  I'm not sure if there's much help with the Resample and Pre-delay settings, and I don't quite hear as much difference with them.  Overall, much closer to the "Internal reverb" of my upright Steinway F from 1885, except that my real piano has higher frequencies that prevail with this ringing tone reverb effect in real life.

Anyone with some more tips for this effect?

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Re: More upright piano options?

dklein wrote:

Anyone with some more tips for this effect?

The only problem with this effect is that it includes the harp resonance of the sampled piano. I wish there was one done with an empty (no string, or damped strings) cabinet. The only way to reduce the added harp that may conflict with pianoteq's, is like you did, reduce the effect's presence.

It also replaces the single built-in pianoteq reverb (although the harp may be thought as similar to a spring reverb) but for adding a more conventional reverb effect, one has either to process through an external one inside a daw, or mix the knock.wav file with another convolution reverb file. This is what I did with the file "Large Wide Echo Hall+Knock.wav" also available at the same site. Feel free to try all sort of combinations...

Last edited by Gilles (28-06-2017 13:29)

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Re: More upright piano options?

Interesting...

This sounds, Gilles, like what I did several months ago by constructing two 'delay' effects, calling one 'Woody' and the other one 'Iron Harp'.  I would then use both of these in the "Effects" settings, varying their contributions.

More to play with, as always....  :-)

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Re: More upright piano options?

I couldn't resist trying to make an old upright (starting  from preset U4 Tall). Its not the sound what is asked for in this thread, but it is like the small old Hellas uprights I have played (Hellas piano, and Grand piano, made from 1901-2007 in Finland, now in Pearl River China). Melody, got from a friend 40 years ago. For some reason, I can not get it pasted in here, but the file is in "Other files". And, thanks very much for all useful information in this thread.

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Re: More upright piano options?

Pianoteqenthusiast wrote:

I couldn't resist trying to make an old upright (starting  from preset U4 Tall). Its not the sound what is asked for in this thread, but it is like the small old Hellas uprights I have played (Hellas piano, and Grand piano, made from 1901-2007 in Finland, now in Pearl River China). Melody, got from a friend 40 years ago. For some reason, I can not get it pasted in here, but the file is in "Other files". And, thanks very much for all useful information in this thread.

Will you be posting an fxp for this piano?

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Re: More upright piano options?

The fxp is uploaded. Enjoy.