Topic: Bach and Satie - D4 Concert Recording BA

first time posting my playing here.

My brother is an aspiring artist occasionally publishing his portraits on a French online magazine and having a few galleries of both drawings and pictures on his Behance page.

I've decided to try and help him spread the word about his work by showing it in a few videos, where I accompany the images with my piano.

I've recorded the music with Pianoteq 5.8.1. I've tried many presets, and I've also tried playing a bit with the settings, but I just can't manage to obtain a sound that convinces me 100%. I've decided to settle for the D4 Concert Record BA, that I much prefer to the K2 or the historical instruments (these are all the presets that I have), but I'm still not convinced: if you have any ideas on how to change the settings in order to make the sound more realistic, please let me know!

Here's the playlist, where I play the following pieces:
Bach - Prelude in C Major 846
Satie - Gymnopedie 1 and Gnossiennes 1 and 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation … -Y08W4cm10

Thanks for your suggestions!


Re: Bach and Satie - D4 Concert Recording BA

You say you're "not convinced" but you don't give any idea what is no convincing you.  People need something to go on.

You also need to explain if you have Stage, Standard or Pro.  Standard and Pro allow more adjustments than Stage.  If you have Standard or Pro there are a lot of FXPs to try out on the various pianos.

But off the top of my head I'd suggest you consider :

   - Reverb choice.  This can be a huge difference.  Experiment.
   - Are you used to playing a real piano ?  Sometimes the player models are better as they sound is modeled from the player's position.
   - If you're using Standard or Pro you can adjust the Voicing section as a starter.
   - Are you using headphones or speakers or amps or studio monitors.  For example, speaker placement and reverb setting can be a huge issue for some people.

I personally can't complain about the D4 Concert Recording BA either, but I'd still switch to the Jazz presets for (surprise) Jazz.

I found the K2 a little artificial sounding but with Standard I found adjusting the voicing settings helped.  It's a matter of personal taste with Pianoteq.

You might also consider mixing two models.  You can run Pianoteq as multiple VSTs or even run multiple standalone copies.  Some people find that works for them.

I guess you downloaded the free PTQ's including the historical models.  Maybe the Conrad Graf will grow on you (it did on me).  I added the Kremsegg 2 pack myself and maybe you'll find yourself turning to these historical models more than you might think now.  It surprised me how rapidly I started using the forte models and even the harpsichords ( and I don't think I ever even listened to harpsichord seriously before I used Pianoteq ).  Hope you find something that suits you anyway.


Re: Bach and Satie - D4 Concert Recording BA

Hi sjgcit.

I have pianoteq standard version 5.8.1.

I am not really used to play a real piano and I'm listening via headphones.

By "not convinced" I mean that the sound doesn't sound very realistic in certain occasions. Particularly, it sounds to me very good when playing chords as opposed to when playing single notes, and it sounds much worse when playing high notes compared to low or middle range ones.

For instance, the sound of the Bach prelude that I play seems to be better in the middle while quite poor at the very beginning and in the final phrases.

I don't like the k2 at all. I've tried the Graf and I must say I'm pleasantly surprised. Also the Schantz seems interesting.
The problem is that the sound is much less delicate than the D4, which I think is more appropriate to a piece like Bach's prelude, but indeed I might use these two models in the future.

What do you mean by mixing two models? It's the first time that I hear this. Ehm... maybe it's because I'm a technological ignorant or cos English is not my first language, but I don't even know what a VST is smile)

I also wonder if my problem could be due to the fact that I'm not using the Asio drivers (which, I seem to understand, are the recommended ones)...


Re: Bach and Satie - D4 Concert Recording BA

I am no expert on making adjustments, so perhaps another user might give advice on that.

I do wonder if the fact that your issue with with single notes (and not chords) may suggest that you "looking for problems" when you hit single notes.  An issue with your expectations rather than anything really wrong.  It is something to consider, anyway.

You could try some of the FXPs for the D4 and K2 which might help you.

The fact that you have a different experience with different frequency ranges could indicate an issue with headphones.  Pianoteq is a precision audio application and some headphones distort different frequency ranges.  I can say that changing from one headset to another I notice a definite difference myself.  I don't think you need expensive headphones, but it's not generally easy to find what's right for your own preferences.  It could be as simple as the cable connections.

It's interesting you mention that you find  the D4 more delicate for Bach, as Bach never used an instrument and did not compose for an instrument like a D4.  Keyboard's in Bach's time were quite different and the Graf and Schantz are much closer to what he'd have composed for (and on).  These instruments do encourage a slightly different approach to playing these pieces.  There are things that are natural on a forte piano than don't work at all on modern grand piano the same way.  Some of the way we expect to hear Bach now is influenced by mainly hearing it played on grand pianos, but if you listen to recordings on historic instruments you'll start to realize that they were written for that kind of device and work better in some cases on them.  YMMV but keep exploring.  And try the harpsichords as well.

Mixing means that you can (CPU allowing) run more than one Pianoteq application at the same time.  Both will register the same keys and you can, therefore, play two instruments at once.  You can do this in a more sophisticated way using a DAW application and using Pianoteq as a VST instrument (google some of this) but it amounts to playing more than one instrument at the same time.  A VST is a virtual instrument wrapped in a particular kind of software interface than allows applications that support VSts to use them.  A DAW is a Digital Audio Workstation and they are software applications for sequencing and manipulating audio, especially MIDI controlled audio systems.  Pianoteq comes with a standalone application but also comes with a VST for use in these applications.  Running two standalone Pianoteq applications does not give as much control (by a long shot) as running it as VSTs under a DAW, but it's simpler.  You could, for example, play both a D4 piano and the K2 together.  A minor trick is that you can transpose one instrument differently and e.g. play an octave by striking one key.

ASIO drivers should not, I think, affect notes based on frequency.  I don't think that's a problem.


Re: Bach and Satie - D4 Concert Recording BA

Hi Kalospiano - you could experiment with the adjustments that are available within Pianoteq -

I listened to all of the recordings and enjoyed the visuals of your brother's work - very nice.



Re: Bach and Satie - D4 Concert Recording BA

Thank you LTEC, I'll forward the compliments to my brother smile

sjgcit, you make a good point saying that Bach wasn't composing for modern instruments, but after all there's no way of knowing for what he would have composed if he had had access to what we have today, and I personally feel that a piece like the prelude goes much better with a delicate sounding piano like the D4.

I know understand what you mean with the double VST but that doesn't help when in the end I export the file to WAV in only one of the two Pianoteq applications opened.

I guess I'll try to experiment with reverb, velocity lines, etc, even if my first attempts have been largely unsuccessful sad


Re: Bach and Satie - D4 Concert Recording BA

NO.  Just record some more stuff like that.



Re: Bach and Satie - D4 Concert Recording BA

LTECpiano wrote:

NO.  Just record some more stuff like that.

I take it you believe the sound is already good as it is smile


Re: Bach and Satie - D4 Concert Recording BA

kalospiano wrote:
LTECpiano wrote:

NO.  Just record some more stuff like that.

I take it you believe the sound is already good as it is smile

Well, the combination of your playing and the visuals from your brother's art is very nice.



Re: Bach and Satie - D4 Concert Recording BA

thank you Lanny, that's very nice.
I would say the new project I'm about to post is quite different. I hope you'll enjoy it too.