Topic by s12a

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Topic: New addon! (I'm sure many haven't noticed)

Last one was an unexpected addition to the Kivir project! If it wasn't for the Pianoteq newsletter I wouldn't have known of its addition to the list. To be honest I would have preferred an old grand piano or even better, since there aren't any yet, an old upright piano. But of course, the more instruments we have, the better!

http://www.pianoteq.com/pianoteq/images//pianos/walter-small.jpg
Pianoforte: Walter

This is a physically modelled virtual copy of an Anton Walter pianoforte.

Anton Walter (1752-1826) was an important and famous Viennese instrument builder. He was a friend of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart who owned one of his instruments and often used it in concerts. Ludwig van Beethoven also belonged to those who often praised the solid quality. By improving the Viennese pianoforte action, Walter managed to build instruments with a slightly more powerful sound than that of his competitors. The instruments are often used today as models for the construction of authentic copies.

Add-on page

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: New addon! (I'm sure many haven't noticed)

I'm glad to have this great add-on. 
Sure, I would prefer a new grand historic piano for a new Add-on.  But this Walter pianoforte sounds very good too.

Mozart loved to play Walter pianoforte, and have one for hinself.

I'm trying to find mp3 of a original Walter pianoforte, com compare with this new add-on.

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: New addon! (I'm sure many haven't noticed)

I found several Walter pianoforte mp3 samples, played by Paul Badura-Skoda hinself, and I bet he played in his own Walter pianoforte, which was used to create the pianoteq add-on.

http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/mus...-Skoda.htm

If somebody could record one of these musics, using pianoteq add-on, would be very interesting to comparison purposes.

Last edited by Beto-Music (31-01-2009 19:02)

Reply by Gilles

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Re: New addon! (I'm sure many haven't noticed)

Indeed I had missed it. (I thought subscription to the newsletter was automatic with forum membership)

This one is really great. I am not an unconditional fan of pianofortes but this preset sounds very even over its entire register and completely believable as an instrument. Again the playability is much better than you would suspect just by listening to a midi file.

I think the analysis method is really getting better if I compare this preset to the earlier pianofortes. I also am getting quite fond of the Werckmeister III temperament which makes chords on this instrument really sing. It sounds much flatter with equal temperament.

As all pianofortes, but best with this one, there is a steeper intrinsic dynamic range between ppp and fff which is very controllable here. I found myself improvising on this pianoforte and liking it...You have to increase the volume of your amp or headphones to make the best of the dynamic range, but then crescendos sound just marvelous.

Tweaking a bit the hammer hardness is useful if you find the upper register a bit bright to your taste. But I like it the way it is.

Now I wish I had the technique to play all these Mozart and early Beethoven sonatas that this instrument is made for...

Last edited by Gilles (31-01-2009 23:59)

Reply by feline1

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Re: New addon! (I'm sure many haven't noticed)

I enjoyed this Add-on.

Of course, being a rock/electro musician,
I haven't the faintest interest in playing authentic 17th century salon music (or whatever the correct term is),
but those pianoforte sounds have a lovely mid-range twanginess which can make them very cool to play chops on

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: New addon! (I'm sure many haven't noticed)

I found this music mp3

: http://muzetunes.com/playback.asx?c=XKI...I=&f=B

Recorded in a Water pianoforte, Fantasia for Piano in D minor

I have a midi of the same music, but on Pianoteq add-on it got different.  The section between bass and middle range sounded a little like a banjo on pianoteq, even adjusting the hammer and reverbs.  Specially in time segment 00:20.

I think even historic add-on have some problems, but the fact of our ears be not used to, lend us to think it's 100% right, despite some few diferences on tone.

Last edited by Beto-Music (01-02-2009 00:17)

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: New addon! (I'm sure many haven't noticed)

Hi all,
We are glad that you like the new add-on! This add-on is a virtual copy of a Walter pianoforte that belongs to Paul Badura-Skoda. He knows of course the original instrument very well and he tried the add-on himself, in our office and in Vienna. His pianoforte restorer in Vienna tried it also. They have both validated the virtual copy. You can read his quote on our reference page http://www.pianoteq.com/references The slight banjo sound is one of the particularities of this instrument and of course makes its charm. If the sound was different from the original instrument, Paul Badura-Skoda would never had given us permission to publish this virtual copy nor to quote him on our site!

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: New addon! (I'm sure many haven't noticed)

Philippe.

May I ask your help to try to take the Walter add-on pianoforte closer to these mp3 files recorded in a real Walter pianoforte?

: http://muzetunes.com/playback.asx?c=XKI...I=&f=B

I don't notice banjo sound in these mp3. Is that due tuning, voicing or different needing ??

Reply by Gilles

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Re: New addon! (I'm sure many haven't noticed)

May I also suggest Mozart's Adagio KV 540 in B minor (well B flat minor for us if we leave it at 415Hz) as a perfect piece for this pianoforte. The sharp contrast of successive p and f sections sounds just right with this preset.

I had played it a bit (not fast) in the past on a modern piano and now I feel that maybe Mozart composed it on and for this instrument...

As for sound accuracy, just to add my thoughts, this is all very subjective since our ears and taste differ as well as most importantly the coloration of the equipment we hear it on. In my case, I tend to add a smooth equalization curve starting from 500Hz down to a maximum of about +10dB that compensates for what I feel may be lacking in bass with my headphones. I also maximize stereo width which for me increases the realism.

Again I emphasize that listening while playing is different than listening passively to a midi file. When you play, you are more in a feedback mode, adjusting the sound that you can produce in real time to what the music needs. When you listen, you are more in a comparison mode, trying to find differences with the ideal image that is in your mind, and finding them of course...

Playability in this sense for me means being able to immerge in the music without being annoyed by slight details in the sound because the instrument responds well.

I listened again to the Chopin examples with the C2 preset which I don't really like when I play it, and it sounds perfectly credible when I listen to somebody with the adequate technique playing it.

Last edited by Gilles (01-02-2009 18:13)