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Topic: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Because honestly it feels its around the corner, and we are close to that time of the year, in the proper year.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

For some reason I think Pianoteq 6 will be an incremental change instead of a major overhaul like previous version changes. I'm not sure how it can get any better than what we already have. But I'm probably wrong, maybe Modartt has something amazing under wraps that will knock our socks off!

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

v5 was also a pretty incremental change compared to v4, it wasn't a massive overhaul.

Hard work and guts!

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

From Grotrian model to new pianoteq versions, the changes will be more subtle as a natural result that the "Grotrian pianoteq standart" it's now very close of perfection, and already perfect to some people.
If it's already nearly perfect it can't change a lot, as there is few things to change now. The only main change we can guess it's about refurbish/improve the older models to the same quality level of Grotrian.

Last edited by Beto-Music (05-01-2017 16:38)

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Note by note noise samples would be another huge step - laborious but technically relatively easy...

formerly known as Notyetconvinced

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Modellingoptimist wrote:

Note by note noise samples would be another huge step - laborious but technically relatively easy...


What do you mean by "note by note noise samples"? One can already use the Note Edit feature of Pianoteq Pro to edit and vary, on a note-by-note basis, many parameters such as key release noise, damper noise, volume and many other parameters that affect and are a part of the sound of each individual note.

The various default instrument presets already have quite a lot of note-by-note or note-range variation of these parameters built in (edited, changed and varied by the Pianoteq developers as part of the instrument presets themselves).

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (06-01-2017 15:44)
Pianoteq Pro - Linux Mint - Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio interface - Sennheiser HD600 headphones

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Stephen_Doonan wrote:
Modellingoptimist wrote:

Note by note noise samples would be another huge step - laborious but technically relatively easy...


What do you mean by "note by note noise samples"? One can already use the Note Edit feature of Pianoteq Pro to edit and vary, on a note-by-note basis, many parameters such as key release noise, damper noise, volume and many other parameters that affect and are a part of the sound of each individual note.

The various default instrument presets already have quite a lot of note-by-note or note-range variation of these parameters built in (edited, changed and varied by the Pianoteq developers as part of the instrument presets themselves).

I mean there should be at least one noise sample per category and note. Without owning the Pro version it seems to me that there is only one noise sample per category which is varied through filtering over the key range. Regardless of the implementation noises are currently not on a par with the rest to me.

formerly known as Notyetconvinced

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Modellingoptimist wrote:

I mean there should be at least one noise sample per category and note. Without owning the Pro version it seems to me that there is only one noise sample per category which is varied through filtering over the key range. Regardless of the implementation noises are currently not on a par with the rest to me.

If I am not mistaken, the noises (such as damper noise) are modeled, not sampled, and from my own observation, opening many of the presets for particular instruments in Pianoteq Pro's Note Editor, I can see that these noises (and various other parameters) have been adjusted by the Pianoteq developers for specific notes and note ranges, presumably to match the differences in specific notes of the keyboard in the physical pianos that the models were created to simulate.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (07-01-2017 00:20)
Pianoteq Pro - Linux Mint - Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio interface - Sennheiser HD600 headphones

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Philippe once told me the noises was sampled, but it could be modelled. The problem is that modelling the noises would take a significative portion of CPU usage.

I think the noises are samples adjusted with digital filters to render more variances of velocities. I presume there are other filters or even different samples for vintage models and models of instruments that use different material too.

Last edited by Beto-Music (06-01-2017 20:58)

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

I hope that a new version 6 thing is drums. I think Pianoteq already has what it takes when it comes to multi channels, microphone replacement and cross platform compatibility when it comes to OSX, Wndows and Linux.

The only thing Modartt will have to deal with is controlling stuff like hihat openess, where (center to edge) and keeping all aspects of the HH in one note (or one for the left hand and one for the right hand). With what they already have accomplished in mind, I'm sure they can do this in a very good way. I promise that I would be the first one to buy one or more drum packs if they sounds good.  :-)

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Drums in Pianoteq. Hell no. -_-

Might as well go purchase everyday's groceries in a car mechanic shop. LOL.

Last edited by EvilDragon (09-01-2017 11:22)
Hard work and guts!

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

I thought we had a cow bell once ... maybe not   ;p)

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

josander wrote:

I hope that a new version 6 thing is drums. I think Pianoteq already has what it takes when it comes to multi channels, microphone replacement and cross platform compatibility when it comes to OSX, Wndows and Linux.

Maybe in Drumsteq, but please not in Pianoteq

Last edited by slobajudge (09-01-2017 13:00)

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

slobajudge wrote:

Maybe in Drumsteq, but please not in Pianoteq

I agree. smile

Pianoteq maintains a brilliant focus and is wonderfully full-featured within that focus, without the software bloat that seems to eventually detract from or harm so much other software development in some way.

Last edited by Stephen_Doonan (09-01-2017 15:53)
Pianoteq Pro - Linux Mint - Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio interface - Sennheiser HD600 headphones

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Drums No.  Modeled virtual strings, yes.

Pianoteq Pro 5.7.1 - Linux Mint 17.3 - Mate Desktop

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

They do have a lot of pitched percussion, so that might actually not be so far fetched...

I know the piano-only crowd will strongly disagree, and I respect the position, but personally I'd like to see a nice pipe organ and even some sort of synthesizer. I realize there are already great sampled organs out there, and obviously all kinds of synthesizers. However Pianoteq's interface is so brilliant for dramatically altering instruments -- I can't help but think their potential goes far beyond merely replicating pianos. Organ/synth and even unpitched percussion would be far easier to model than piano.

Of course I'm also all for further perfecting the existing pianos. And I completely get the worry many of you have of the software getting spread so thin that the pianos plateau prematurely -- but I can't see Modartt having that problem.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

NathanShirley wrote:

They do have a lot of pitched percussion, so that might actually not be so far fetched...

I know the piano-only crowd will strongly disagree, and I respect the position, but personally I'd like to see a nice pipe organ and even some sort of synthesizer. I realize there are already great sampled organs out there, and obviously all kinds of synthesizers. However Pianoteq's interface is so brilliant for dramatically altering instruments -- I can't help but think their potential goes far beyond merely replicating pianos. Organ/synth and even unpitched percussion would be far easier to model than piano.

Of course I'm also all for further perfecting the existing pianos. And I completely get the worry many of you have of the software getting spread so thin that the pianos plateau prematurely -- but I can't see Modartt having that problem.

I do understand your point, but I think that Pianoteq in that case will lose focus. More projects require either more people to hire or more time to develop that already exist or both. At the moment new version need about 2 to 3 years to develop.  Do we need to wait 4 to 5 or more ? I think nobody wants that, except if Modartt already has that capacity to keep balance.

Last edited by slobajudge (10-01-2017 08:10)

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

GRB wrote:

Drums No.  Modeled virtual strings, yes.

Why not drums: yes AND modeled virtual strings: yes?  :-)

I'm also a Linux user, very frustrated about the bad drum and percussion situation. Soundwise, the only full professional alternative for Linux users are the combination of Natural Drum Kit and Linuxsampler (IMO). And even the NDK has some issues.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

You can liebestraum all day long, but a piano is a percussion instrument. The model of pianoteq is the model for a percussion instrument, and expanding, or forking it with other percussion instruments may yield interesting results (as Modartt has already demonstrated in the past).

Paul

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

True -- the most perfected percussion instrument thus far.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

pz wrote:

You can liebestraum all day long, but a piano is a percussion instrument. The model of pianoteq is the model for a percussion instrument, and expanding, or forking it with other percussion instruments may yield interesting results (as Modartt has already demonstrated in the past).

Hadn't thought about this before, but maybe I should consider my instrument (traverse flute) as a semi-percussion instrument. Not because I can hit someone with it, but because most certainly the way I open and close the flute's holes have a percussive ring to it.

Pianoteq 5 with Blüthner Model One / Grotrian Concert Royal / Hohner Collection / Vintage Electric Pianos

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Just say no to drums.

(Americans over the age of 40 or so might get a chuckle out of that.)

There is a large market for high-quality virtual pianos. The piano is central to many different kinds of music, and top-quality real pianos are large, breathtakingly expensive, and hard to move around. And it's possible to build controllers that do a very good job mimicking a real piano keyboard and pedals. As we all know, modeling is especially appropriate for a virtual piano, so many strings engaging a single soundboard and acoustic environment.

I just don't see the same compelling need for computer-modeled drums, let alone for Modartt to spend much time on it. Whether Pianoteq 6 is an incremental update or a major new release, I'm sure I'll buy it, to continue enjoying the best virtual piano available.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

The piano is such a complex, beautiful instrument. I hope that Pianoteq sticks mostly with perfecting piano modeling.

Pianoteq 5 Standard + Bluthner, Model B, Grotian, Kremsegg #1, Electric Pianos. Roland FP-90, Windows 10 quad core, Scarlett 2i2, KRK Rokit 6 3G + Rokit 10S, Sennheiser HD 650.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

beakybird wrote:

The piano is such a complex, beautiful instrument. I hope that Pianoteq sticks mostly with perfecting piano modeling.

+1

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

slobajudge wrote:
beakybird wrote:

The piano is such a complex, beautiful instrument. I hope that Pianoteq sticks mostly with perfecting piano modeling.

+1

my +1 also!

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Hey, hey, my friends! Why are someone of you so afraid of drums? There's no sign, whatsoever, that shows us that the piano will be a second priority. :-)

It's actually getting better, bigger and more despite bells, harpsichords, steel pans, vibes, harps and other stuff. Currently, it's a whopping 9 pianos and more stuff in the free ones. I'm sure that this will even improve if we takes Modartt's history into consideration. The Modartt stuff are extremely skilled, the technology is probably in place since long time ago, it feels like a crime if Modartt's product only should be an evolution in the future.

Piano is the absolutely last thing in the world I would worry about when thinking pianos and Pianoteq IMHO.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

There are enough other developers perfecting drum sampling, some of them even drum physical modeling (Image-Line). You on Linux? Tough luck. Move on to the "dark side". big_smile

Hard work and guts!

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

We allready saw very good percussion instruments in Pianoteq.
I personly love all the Steelpans.

If not drums, then a model of Timpani would be great, just to stay at the classical instruments.
But it could be really interesting to hear what the Pianoteq model could do regarding drums and cymbals.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

EvilDragon wrote:

There are enough other developers perfecting drum sampling, some of them even drum physical modeling (Image-Line). You on Linux? Tough luck. Move on to the "dark side". big_smile

Thanks!  :-)   ..but I also have stuff like programs from Line 6 and programs such as Melodyne in a Windows computer and do occasionally use OSX as well, so I'm already on the "dark side"!  :-)

I prefer to use my Linux systems whenever I can for a lot of reasons, but don't hesitate to do what it takes when I need to. Thankfully, I do probably use my Linux system nearly 100% of my time. The core is Mixbus32C, Pianoteq, and lots of stuff from u-he. And the number of commercial Linux stuff incises all the time. I even run the Garritan Personal Orchestra 5 and the amazing PG-8X. (Roland JX-8P emulator) in my Linux system through a Windows compatible layer, but not everything works that way and it's always nice to do everything in your favorite environment if possible.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Well you derailed this topic pretty fast with your drum nonsense

There is room for improvement, many pianos to model and lots of pianos to update to the latest model, if you want drums, there are many already, or create your own topic about a modelled drum, this is about pianoteq and that means piano.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Rohade wrote:

Well you derailed this topic pretty fast with your drum nonsense

There is room for improvement, many pianos to model and lots of pianos to update to the latest model, if you want drums, there are many already, or create your own topic about a modelled drum, this is about pianoteq and that means piano.

No it's not... It's about,

Piano
E-Piano
Bells
Vibes
Celeste
Xylo
Steelpans
Harp
Cimbalon

untill now...

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Rohade wrote:

Well you derailed this topic pretty fast with your drum nonsense

There is room for improvement, many pianos to model and lots of pianos to update to the latest model, if you want drums, there are many already, or create your own topic about a modelled drum, this is about pianoteq and that means piano.

I'm sorry if you feel that I have derailed this topic, that was not my intention. But with the topic's caption (version 6) in mind, I thought you was thinking about new functions, not new pianos and incremental updates as done in the 5 series. And as someone already had to remind you: Pianoteq is already much more than Piano.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

But it's not a drumkit. And it will never be a drumkit.

OF COURSE we all want more and better pianos and current pianos brought up to par to Grotrian's level. That's what I expect from version 6. Not some freaking drums I already have better sampled in dozens other products.

Hard work and guts!

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

FWIW, just for "kicks" (sorry) I Googled for physically modelled drums, and I found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usD7mWWWmoE

Greg.

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Yes, but that is a research project and probably won't happen before 2018... There's IL Drumaxx that does percussion modeling and can be purchased right now.

http://www.image-line.com/plugins/Synths/Drumaxx/

Hard work and guts!

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

olepro wrote:
Rohade wrote:

Well you derailed this topic pretty fast with your drum nonsense

There is room for improvement, many pianos to model and lots of pianos to update to the latest model, if you want drums, there are many already, or create your own topic about a modelled drum, this is about pianoteq and that means piano.

No it's not... It's about,

Piano
E-Piano
Bells
Vibes
Celeste
Xylo
Steelpans
Harp
Cimbalon

untill now...

Pianoteq having other instruments doesn't mean its a general purpose modelling program. Its focused on Piano and its silly to think otherwise, specially in a major update.

Just imagine how crazy would be and the forum reaection if the Pianoteq 6.0 launch is like this

-Today we release the new version of Pianoteq 6.0, our main feature is

Improved drum model-

No even as april's fools.

There is also another topic, from 2012 I think, asking if this could improve anymore, there's still and always will be a lot of improvement on the modelling.

Last edited by Rohade (16-01-2017 22:59)

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Re: Too early to talk about Pianoteq 6?

Rohade wrote:
olepro wrote:
Rohade wrote:

Well you derailed this topic pretty fast with your drum nonsense

There is room for improvement, many pianos to model and lots of pianos to update to the latest model, if you want drums, there are many already, or create your own topic about a modelled drum, this is about pianoteq and that means piano.

No it's not... It's about,

Piano
E-Piano
Bells
Vibes
Celeste
Xylo
Steelpans
Harp
Cimbalon

untill now...

Pianoteq having other instruments doesn't mean its a general purpose modelling program. Its focused on Piano and its silly to think otherwise, specially in a major update.

Just imagine how crazy would be and the forum reaection if the Pianoteq 6.0 launch is like this

-Today we release the new version of Pianoteq 6.0, our main feature is

Improved drum model-

No even as april's fools.

There is also another topic, from 2012 I think, asking if this could improve anymore, there's still and always will be a lot of improvement on the modelling.

I think your answer is a little foolish too.
Moddart has proved that their modelling can be used for many other thing than piano, so even they started out as a piano modelling software it would be silly not to go other ways than piano.
That dont mean that druns suddently is their main focus.