Any New Digital Pianos?

Hi sjgcit,

Thanks for your response. 

No, it's not the position.  I actually have another baby grand which I've played on since I was a kid.  When I set up my digital piano, I took all the measurements from that, including the bench height and key distance from the floor. 

I've experimented with bench height in the past.  The only thing I ever noticed is that if I sit too low, my thumbs will contact the keys further back (away from the tips) and they end up getting a little sore.

But this is nothing like the problems I've had with my hands since I started playing on digital pianos 6-7 years ago.  It seems obvious to me now, but at the time, I couldn't figure out what was causing it.  What problems did I have?  Soreness on the tops of the hands, weakness in fingers (unable to 'stand' on a finger), tightness going back to the elbow, burning hands, a feeling like a need to stretch my forearms, a pulling feeling when I opened my hand wide (like someone was pulling strings to make my hand close).  When it was really bad, I couldn't write or type on the computer.

I thought the problem was caused by something I was eating or some exercise I was doing.  I didn't think it was the digital piano, because I didn't really notice much difference in touch -- certainly not such a difference that would cause physical problems.  I had several different digital pianos - yamahas, casios, kawais, rolands.  For a time I thought I was just getting older and couldn't play piano everyday anymore.  So I would play twice a week or even once a week. 

Last year, the piano at my school became unbearable.  It kept falling out of tune, and I was tired of tuning it.  So, I decided to take my VCP1 there.  This meant that I no longer practiced on it at home.  True, I played a little at school on the digital piano, but there it's very easy music.  Just a starting pitch for the choir or a simple hymn -- nothing technical.  Within a few months, my hand problems started to go away.  Keep in mind, I was still playing on my baby grand at home.  After 1/2 a year, my hands have basically recovered.  I'd say 95%.

When I think back, it should have been obvious to me.  After I would finish practicing on the digital piano, my hands would feel tired and sore, especially on the tops of the hands.  It's too bad, really.  I don't know what's the difference between the two pianos.  Maybe someone can figure it out.  It's something to do with the action.  I know that my hands would feel really bad after drilling so called 'hammer' passages.  One particular example comes to mind:  Var 12 of Mendelssohn's Variations Serieuses.  There, you have to work much harder on the digital piano.  Something about how the key bounces back.

Dklein,

That's a possibility, but I somehow don't think that's the problem. I only play with headphones.  I have a very nice pair of headphones (Sennheiser 650) and I typically turn the volume up as much as I can without it being uncomfortable.  I have no reason to play with the piano muted.  But then again, it is difficult to compare the volume output from headphones with the volume from an acoustic piano.

Hello Mr. Analyst,

You have addressed a very important variable, namely, the physical length of the key relative to its pivot point.  Another subtle variable involves the "depth" of key travel, especially if the VPC-1's key "bottoms out" before one might anticipate for an acoustic Kawai grand.

Something else to consider is that, while playing a grand piano of almost any length, the physical size/area of any real grand piano's soundboard might be hundreds of times larger than the combined physical cross-sectional areas of all of an electronic piano's multiple speakers.  In addition, one has to only depress the damper pedal while playing a Kawai baby grand (or larger instrument) to allow all harmonically related piano strings to vibrate sympathetically -- something that does not really happen to the same degree in an electronic instrument.  Restated, one does not have to "work as hard" to move the same volume of air when playing a acoustic grand piano ... that you sometimes have to work when playing an electronic instrument.  No, turning up the volume does not give the same effect.

Using an analogy of electrical engineering terms, voltage (i.e., force of individual electrons) and amperage (i.e., physical amount of electrons present), the act of turning up the volume of an electronic instrument is analogous to turning up the voltage; raising the acoustic volume of air is analogous to increasing the amperage of the signal.  (Slightly off-topic:  this comparison is even more apparent when trying to play an electronic church organ loudly, as compared to the sheer mass of air that a real acoustic pipe organ is able to move -- another example of the voltage versus amperage analogy.)

Cheers,

Joe

I think the difference between of the keyboard synthesizer of present tool is that in this keyboard, you can get sound from the rapid of superficial pushing (giving the momentum malleus), and must always be synthesisers press almost to the end. This manifests itself in the hands of great tension during long game technically sophisticated products.

Here is the action of the VPC1.

Vpс1 this Audi. Lachnit -Porsche)

Thanks for the warning - I've always disliked Porsche. :-)

More seriously I think we're neglecting the personal factor a bit too much.  There's no universally better keyboard for everyone.  There are keyboards most people find very good ( and the VPC1 is surely one of them, I'd have thought ) but that doesn't mean everyone finds them good.

TimN,

Thanks for the info.  It looks interesting but probably too expensive for me.  Woud like to try one.

I just ordered a Roland FP-90 that has the same key bed and piano voice as their LX-17 model which goes for $6299. I chose this over the VPC-1 because

1. I've heard that the piano feel is superb.
2. I think Roland has better quality control. I hear less online complaints about Roland.
3. The Roland has voices onboard including modeled pianos that compare favorably to Pianoteq.
4. The FP-90 has an onboard mic input + effects processor, facilitating gigging and making demos.

When I get it, I'll give a review. I might find myself using Pianoteq less, but I know that when Pianoteq comes out with a new version, it will cost well under $100 to upgrade. When Roland comes out with an improved piano model, you have to spend $2000 on a new keyboard and sell the old one for much less on Ebay. Additionally, only the pianos are modeled, the other voices are sampled.

Hi Ryan,

Sorry but also interested to hear about your hand etc problems with the VPC1. My interest is because I am an Alexander Technique teacher and also used to conduct research into human movement control.

One point I'd make is that the problems you describe may not be widespread. Do you know of many others with a similar experience?

I certainly don't think everyone has the same experience. I for example use a VPC1 (with Pianoteq), and sometimes play for extended periods, without problem. There are some things that can make my hands ache a bit but this happens just as much on an acoustic piano. And it goes away more or less as soon as I stop playing.

There are undoubtedly differences between the experiences of playing digital and acoustic pianos, but it seems to me that there are equally big differences between playing different examples of either type, acoustic and digital.

But we're all different and we all play in a different way, right down to the exact sequence and degree of muscle activations we might use just to strike a middle c with our right index finger. Two pianists may superficially seem to be doing something similar when they play the same piece but what's going on 'underneath' is likely to be entirely different.

What I would suggest is that something particular about the digital instrument experience is causing you to react in such a way that you end up hurting yourself. If you're interested it may be possible for you to find out what this reaction consists of and therefore to stop making it, at which point the problem would go away.

Cheers, Ian.