Topic: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Hey guys, I just got a new Dell Inspiron i7-7500U with 8GB RAM specifically cause I'm recording soon and my old PC wasn't handling low latency whatsoever.

I'm stunned that even with this new computer (supposedly high performance) I'm still hearing clicks when I'm at 512 samples, let alone 256 and less.
I even got a message that the CPU is not strong enough to handle this and the sound was breaking!

I have a M-Audio M-track 2x2 audio interface.

Any ideas why would this be happening? Should the Audio Device Type be set on anything specific or is it because of the ASIO?
Or could it really be that the computer is not strong enough??

Any insight is highly appreciated.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Sounds like DPC latency issues possibly.

Measure it with this: http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml

Try completely disabling the wifi adapter, it's the usual culprit on laptops.

Last edited by EvilDragon (02-11-2016 09:30)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Hello Tarek,

Try to configure a power profile that keeps the CPU always at 100% (of available clock speed, obviously).

Cheers

Last edited by mfiadeiro (18-02-2017 20:43)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Tarek wrote:

Hey guys, I just got a new Dell Inspiron i7-7500U with 8GB RAM specifically cause I'm recording soon and my old PC wasn't handling low latency whatsoever.

I'm stunned that even with this new computer (supposedly high performance) I'm still hearing clicks when I'm at 512 samples, let alone 256 and less.
I even got a message that the CPU is not strong enough to handle this and the sound was breaking!

I have a M-Audio M-track 2x2 audio interface.

Any ideas why would this be happening? Should the Audio Device Type be set on anything specific or is it because of the ASIO?
Or could it really be that the computer is not strong enough??

Any insight is highly appreciated.

Your system should be fine to run at 128 samples, and maybe even at 64.

Try to optimize your windows. You will find find everything here:
https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/

Good luck,

Please keep us informed.

SK

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

I'm using. MacBook Pro with an I5 and 8 gigs of ram. When I first setup Pianoteq on this computer I was getting pops and other problems which seem to be related to choosing "Optimistic" in the polyphony setting. Once I switched to 128 (I think), I've had no problems at all.

Dense P'teq playing with virtual bass, drums and strings is running about 25% of processor capacity.

Robert Steinberg
MidiOpera.com

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Also turn off the multi-core load detection option in Pianoteq.  Sometimes it detects you don't have enough CPU when you in fact have plenty.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Fellas thank you so much for the insights. I did few tests the past couple of days and here's what I found:

On my old PC (Acer i5, 4GB RAM), I found that when I use Windows Audio (Exclusive Mode), I can go low with buffer size with absolutely no problems. Disabling the network adapter almost always make the DPC test (which EvilDragon suggested) better but I found that the results from thesycon.de and the clicking sounds are not related.

Same on my new PC (Dell Inspiron i7-7500U), the results from the DPC were not related to the clicking but what's strange is that even with Windows Audio (exclusive mode), I'd still hear the clicks.

Long story short, tried all different combinations on both PCs using various audio device type (windows audio, ASIO4ALL, exclusive audio) and the only common thing was that clicking was heard on both machines only when the "Device" setting was set to the M-Audio 2x2 Asio and this concluded that the problem is almost definitely coming from the compatibility of the M-Audio with the Dell Inspiron. A bit of research on that and I saw that there are a few folks complaining from latency and clicking problems from the M-Audio 2x2 so it must be that.

Still not sure how to solve this, if it's incompatibility then either the Dell or the M-Audio will have to be replaced. The topics in the M-Audio forums are left unresolved.

@Evildragon: I also found this program for DPC testing, it additionally tells which adapter is most likely causing the problem.
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

@Stamkorg: Wonderful guide, learned a lot from it even if it doesn't seem to solve my case (but good to have the PC in super shape anyway).

@Mossy: Did you mean to turn off  both CPU overload detection and multicore rendering?

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

I am the furthest there is from being very knowledgeable about this stuff.
that said,  I will tell you about something that happened to me the other day with my Dell.
my cpu or ram use was high.
I opened task manager.
HD audio background process was using a lot of cpu and/or ram.
I turned it off.
things got better.
I then disabled it from startup.

Last edited by chasmanian (05-11-2016 22:57)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

I too am not knowledgeable.  My ole Vista lappy is  2GB DDR2 !.8GHZ and I could run P`teq 5.3 with difficulty, 4.5 was better.

I got a Roland MIDI connector thingy,  fitted it (eventually) right way round.  Don`t know if that helped, but my settings are  44100 Hz and the same for that underneath; 512 or 256 samples, and 64 polyphony.

I now have no trouble on 5.7.  All the pops have gone, and it never runs out of steam no matter what I play.  I was thinking o` changing the lappy but seems like I don`t need to yet awhile.

I'm playing all the right notes but not necessarily in the right order

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

hi all,

i am a new user.

love the sound and technology.

but i too am experience SERIOUSLY high CPU usage with pops and clicks.

bumping 50%.

i7 4700HQ, 16gb ram, win 8.1, SSD

128 buffer

i've optimized prior since i was using EW pianos - got tired of the samples and load times.

almost unusable for my needs at this point.

thoughts?


thanks,fred

Last edited by hodshonf (15-11-2016 00:33)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Your i7-4700HQ should easily handle Pianoteq.  It doesn't use much memory and I've had it running happily on a lowly laptop with a Celeron N2840 and 2Gb of RAM without any problems.  I did reduce polyphony but even with sustain on all the time and zipping through keys it didn't give me any complaints - Pianoteq is not resource hungry.

First find out exactly what task or tasks are using all that CPU time.  I tend to suspect malware as a possible issue and it's worth noting that just having anti-virus software does not guarantee you won't have malware.

StephenG

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

The cpu usage is from the cpu monitor within Studio One.

Not a system report.

I regularly run malware checking too.

My system in lean and clean.

I am getting feedback frpm other users about Pteq being a cpu hog.

Love the quality and detail.

Will simply have to work around it.

I may try a couple of other daws.

The standalone works great.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Sadly S1 is not the most CPU efficient DAW out there...

Hard work and guts!

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

i have Reaper too - will give that a shot.

when all else fails, Reaper tends to be bullet-proof.

after spending an evening with PTeq, i am sold.

i can live with the CPU cost - Studio One can translate VI to an audio track while maintaining midi history.

back and forth when needed.

i have the same situation with my guitar and bass amp sims & cabinet IRs - absolute cpu pigs.

BFD3 and SD2 tend to be hungry too.

but lordy, the sound quality is insane.

add Aether/Breeze or Reverberate2 or PSP2445, cpu slam! and now FabFilter has Pro-R reverb - sweet demo, but 2CAudio's Breeze is just as nice with HALF the cpu hit.



no complaints, though. life in the land of 2016 audio is good.

thanks for the replies!

Last edited by hodshonf (15-11-2016 12:41)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

hodshonf wrote:

i can live with the CPU cost - Studio One can translate VI to an audio track while maintaining midi history.

Reaper can do that too. Freeze track.

Hard work and guts!

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

EvilDragon wrote:
hodshonf wrote:

i can live with the CPU cost - Studio One can translate VI to an audio track while maintaining midi history.

Reaper can do that too. Freeze track.


yup - most DAWs can.

i'm hoping Reaper may be better with CPU usage.

will try tonight.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

It usually is

Hard work and guts!

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

ok, this is crazy.

Reaper is only showing 1.5% CPU usage with Pianoteq.

how can that be?

no cracking or popping at all.

is Studio One THAT inefficient?  i can barely use Pianoteq with Studio One.



GORGEOUS!

Last edited by hodshonf (15-11-2016 23:03)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

no idea about S1.
Reaper user for many years.
very much love it.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

there must be an issue in the S1 setup/config but I can't help you on this. Or simply use Reaper from now on!

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Hopefully i am missing something simple with S1.

i have posted this issue on the forum - next step would be to start a support ticket.

and if all that fails, Reaper it is.

i can think of worse problems to have on this planet.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

hodshonf wrote:

is Studio One THAT inefficient?  i can barely use Pianoteq with Studio One.

It sure can be, but I must say I didn't see it performing as bad as it does for you, however yes, it is definitely not a CPU optimized DAW and this was even confirmed by one of developers back in the ay... And Presonus is doing nothing to optimize it, they just cram features on top...

Hard work and guts!

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Seems strange that S1 has problems with i7, I know it has problems with some lower quality CPU because I use it earlier, anyway I also use Reaper, and it can handle Pianoteq on i3 with ease, no poping, cracking at all. Use it.

Last edited by slobajudge (17-11-2016 07:44)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

hodshonf wrote:

Hopefully i am missing something simple with S1.

i have posted this issue on the forum - next step would be to start a support ticket.

and if all that fails, Reaper it is.

i can think of worse problems to have on this planet.

Certainly so, mine for example

Good for you switching to another software solved the problem.
My issue is still driving me insane cause I'm ONLY running Pianoteq without additional software, it would literally be the only program open. I eliminated all possibilities (disabling adapters, not using external sound card, optimizing PC using the glitch free manual) and still I get pops and clicks. First I thought the M-Audio 2x2 was causing this but this still happens even when I use Pianoteq with the PCs sound card.
Again it's a Dell Inspiron i7-7500U, 8gb RAM, Win10 x64
Any other ideas what could be causing this?

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

I would try with a different audio interface. Something that's not M-Audio and something that's not built into the laptop. Focusrite, for example, as I suspect you'll find RME a bit expensive (but it's OH SO WORTH THE MONEY). See if you can borrow one from a friend or something, just to test.

If even after that you get clicks and pops, the problem is deeper somewhere in laptop's hardware and you'd be better off selling it and getting something that's not Dell. A Toshiba, for example, or Lenovo.

Last edited by EvilDragon (17-11-2016 16:23)
Hard work and guts!

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Try to uninstall (deep uninstall) your antivirus. That solves my issue with Avast.
I own a m-track 2*2.

Last edited by Ovnis31 (17-11-2016 18:44)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

I'm no expert.
that said, maybe open Task Manager.
see whats using a lot of RAM and CPU.

thats the first thing I would do.
if that does not turn up an obvious problem, I would be all for doing what Evil Dragon said: try another interface, Focusrite or RME.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Windows update service can cause some audio glitch, too.

Last edited by Ovnis31 (18-11-2016 00:10)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Ovnis31 wrote:

Windows update service can cause some audio glitch, too.



mega big time.
thus, check Task Manager.

Last edited by chasmanian (18-11-2016 00:32)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Graphic card. What model is it? I have here a 5 years old Sony Vaio laptop that is completely useless for audio due to poorly written graphic drivers from NVidia. In short, there is 4 GB RAM + 1 GB video RAM, but it is designed in such a way that the graphic card randomly steals up to 1,5 GB more RAM. And every time this happens, I get clicks. Solution? None, I bought an Asus laptop...

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

First time User of Pianoteq. Changing the power / performance options to High made all the difference on my Dell XPS laptop. No more CPU notices. Thanks everyone for a great forum.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

@NotYourOwn

Yes, on Linux for example setting the scaling_governor from powersave to performance can increase PTQ's performance index about factor 3.

(here  i5-6200U, Blues Demo, D4 Daily Practice, 48 kHz, performance index 15 (with powersave) and 44 (with performance))

Cheers

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

I am running S3 and can stack and play 4 different instances of Pianoteeq simultaneously, at 196 samples with no problems. That is on a laptop i7-3632QM.

Last edited by red (12-02-2017 12:52)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Tarek wrote:

Hey guys, I just got a new Dell Inspiron i7-7500U with 8GB RAM specifically cause I'm recording soon and my old PC wasn't handling low latency whatsoever.

I'm stunned that even with this new computer (supposedly high performance) I'm still hearing clicks when I'm at 512 samples, let alone 256 and less.
I even got a message that the CPU is not strong enough to handle this and the sound was breaking!

I have a M-Audio M-track 2x2 audio interface.

Any ideas why would this be happening? Should the Audio Device Type be set on anything specific or is it because of the ASIO?
Or could it really be that the computer is not strong enough??

Any insight is highly appreciated.

Hi Tarek - I may have missed that this was recommended or that you did this already, but - have you considered checking to see if the 2x2 interface driver is up to date, and updating if not?

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

SmilingKeys wrote:
Tarek wrote:

Hey guys, I just got a new Dell Inspiron i7-7500U with 8GB RAM specifically cause I'm recording soon and my old PC wasn't handling low latency whatsoever.

I'm stunned that even with this new computer (supposedly high performance) I'm still hearing clicks when I'm at 512 samples, let alone 256 and less.
I even got a message that the CPU is not strong enough to handle this and the sound was breaking!

I have a M-Audio M-track 2x2 audio interface.

Any ideas why would this be happening? Should the Audio Device Type be set on anything specific or is it because of the ASIO?
Or could it really be that the computer is not strong enough??

Any insight is highly appreciated.

Hi Tarek - I may have missed that this was recommended or that you did this already, but - have you considered checking to see if the 2x2 interface driver is up to date, and updating if not?

Update: No solution was found, I returned the laptop. What I suspect is that there was some kind of an incompatibility between the laptop and the sound card. I'll know for sure when I get a new laptop.

If anybody has suggestions for something in the $1k range, hit me up.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

Tarek wrote:

Update: No solution was found, I returned the laptop. What I suspect is that there was some kind of an incompatibility between the laptop and the sound card. I'll know for sure when I get a new laptop.

If anybody has suggestions for something in the $1k range, hit me up.

It is just my opinion but,

I really, really! think it's a Windows problem.
Some weeks ago I tested a high level desktop pc (i7, 16Gb RAM, SSD disk, Windows 10 pro...), made and optimized for music by a French specialized company and there were still some dropouts, even with an RME AIO PCIe soundcard and even at a common setting (44,1Khz and 128 samples).
Despite all the optimization and despite the fact that the processor was at 5% of charge, there still were some Windows processes running unexpectedly that caused the processor or the disk go up to 85-90%.
I can not proof that but I am sure Windows is not efficient to manage realtime audio.

I have never had these kind of problems with Linux, even on a modest pc.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

stamkorg wrote:

I have never had these kind of problems with Linux, even on a modest pc.

And with the wifi, bluetooth and all the options activated together...

Last edited by stamkorg (20-02-2017 21:10)

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

stamkorg wrote:
Tarek wrote:

Update: No solution was found, I returned the laptop. What I suspect is that there was some kind of an incompatibility between the laptop and the sound card. I'll know for sure when I get a new laptop.

If anybody has suggestions for something in the $1k range, hit me up.

It is just my opinion but,

I really, really! think it's a Windows problem.
Some weeks ago I tested a high level desktop pc (i7, 16Gb RAM, SSD disk, Windows 10 pro...), made and optimized for music by a French specialized company and there were still some dropouts, even with an RME AIO PCIe soundcard and even at a common setting (44,1Khz and 128 samples).
Despite all the optimization and despite the fact that the processor was at 5% of charge, there still were some Windows processes running unexpectedly that caused the processor or the disk go up to 85-90%.
I can not proof that but I am sure Windows is not efficient to manage realtime audio.

I have never had these kind of problems with Linux, even on a modest pc.

In fact, when I was at the store convincing them to return the laptop by proving through LatencyMon that a brand new laptop, with nothing on it and totally idle was showing "your machine is not able to handle real time audio processing", the guy downloaded LatencyMon on all the display laptops including the strongest of the Alienwares and still he got the same notification on all of them. He was baffled and I started suspecting LM.

Re: Clicks with low latency with an i7 processor & 8GB RAM

I don’t think this is a strictly a Windows OS problem but should be related to the configuration and installed software/bloatware. Gaming machines are supposed to be better performers...

A simple solution would be to install Linux along side Windows.  I have a recent laptop (UEFI) and have 3 different OSs living happily in my disks.

If you only want to run Windows, the best thing would be to reinstall it from scratch (before that, don’t forget to download and save to a USB stick the essential drivers, specially the network card). Then you can control what software is to be  installed..

If you can’t, won’t  or don’t know how to reinstall it from scratch, the next best thing would be to uninstall all software non vital to music production ( I would also analyze the running services and disable any non essential ones).

Don’t forget to make a backup before making any intervention!

Last edited by mfiadeiro (21-02-2017 15:08)