Topic: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

Hello, my name is Nelson, I have a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller, this electronic piano only respond to 1-105 for midi velocity, how is the best way to set the curve velocity for this ? (graph shape), or, is better if I set the Pianoteq to velocity normal (0-127) an then I use a software for  modify the velocity (ie Velomaster), what do you think ?, I only find the best respond and touch to play my favorites classical pieces, thanks in advance.

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

According to the manual for the P60 found here:
http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi.../P60E1.pdf
This keyboard transmits and receives the full 0 to 127 velocity range.  Of course, as a controller you are not interested so much in what the keyboard "responds" to but rather what it "transmits".  But according to specs, you shouldn't have a problem either way.  What makes you believe it only "responds" to 1 to 105 ?

"Downing a fifth results in diminished capacity."

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

Hello, the Velocity meter in Pianoteq only indicates that it respond from 0 to 105, the P60 have a fault, please check this link: http://www.3daudioinc.com/3db/archive/i...9543.html,
search "velocity" and you can see this fault, but when I set the velocity curve in Pianoteq from 0 to 105 it responds to the maximun volume velocity, I have only the question... how better would be 0 to 127?, since it respond in "steps" (check the link before), I have been seen the Casio Privia PX-120 (it respond fine to all velocities), but the Yamaha P60 have Grade Hammer action Keyboard, better than a Casio I believe, thanks for you respond, Nelson.

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but just in case Nelson is still around, or just as importantly, if anyone is considering buying a Yamaha P-60, I wanted to share my experiences. The P-60 is obviously not in production anymore, but if anyone is thinking of picking up a used one somewhere, here's the story with it.

Nelson is right: the P-60 will not put out full scale MIDI velocities. The highest velocity I have ever been able to achieve is a 107, and that's through me banging a key so hard that I honestly thought either the keyboard or my finger would break. You can get pretty sensitive velocities at the lower end of the MIDI scale--I can even produce a 1--but the max you'll *ever* get in a real world playing situation is maybe 100, and that's when playing Brahms or something. Or playing in a rock situation. There is other information available online about this design flaw of the P-60, but there is apparently no fix. In regards to Cellomangler's comment, the P-60's user manual is simply incorrect on this.

Obviously, this behavior is totally unacceptable and renders expressive playing with Pianoteq very difficult. You've got about 100 possible velocities instead of 127. Using the "moderately slow keyboard" velocity preset in Pianoteq and then logarithmically moving the control points to the left does yield a usable result, but it becomes difficult to control points in the mp and mf range, particularly, because the "targets" are so much smaller.

Anyways, I just wanted to report back to everybody here about this, just in case anyone is considering a purchase. I can't speak to the later models--the P-70, the P-90, etc, but from my research online, it seems that Yamaha may have corrected the problem after the P-60. It's a real shame. I actually like the action on my P-60. It's a little stiff, but overall, it's quite playable. But obviously the MIDI velocity situation makes this a poor choice for an instrument as expressive as our beloved Pianoteq.

Cheers to all.

M1 Mac Mini | Metric Halo ULN-8 | Pianoteq 7.4.2

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

I can second that using a Yamaha CLP 320. The maximum I ever was able to produce when literally SMASHING the keyboard was 107, even though my manual says "transmitted" "127"

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi..._dl_a0.pdf

Its quite pathetic

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

Wow, so the Yamaha MIDI velocity problem is definitely more widespread, then. We should try to get a list going of which models are plagued with this, and when Yamaha got their act together. I'm assuming the problem actually is solved now, but I guess I don't know that for sure.

When did they make the CLP-320? I'm guessing it's been discontinued?

M1 Mac Mini | Metric Halo ULN-8 | Pianoteq 7.4.2

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

I was having the same issue with my Studiologic.  As I understand it (which isn't saying much, I've only been taking lessons 6 months), the key needs to move faster, not harder.

If I pushed down on the key I was only able to get ~107 or so.  If I pulled my finger back towards me while dropping it I was able to get 127.  Kind of an upside down, backwards "flick"

I don't know how I'd actually be able to play like that though...

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

I fixed my problem by reading the manual (lol go figure)!
I had to change the velocity from "normal" to "hard", changed it back to "normal" and voila, I had maximum velocity of 127.

I was laughing hard.

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

Excellent! Glad to hear it.
Unfortunately for me, it's not possible to change the P-60's velocity internally.  But I am really glad to know the velocity problem does not extend to later keyboards, it appears.

In addition to software solutions like drawing the velocity curve in Pianoteq or in one's DAW (at least I know Logic and Cubase will let you do this), I also found this interesting piece of hardware that will change the velocity curve of your keyboard:
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodvel.htm

Seems a bit pricey to me, though.

And again, I'm just including this stuff in case anyone else has similar issues with their keyboard controller. I hope it's helpful.

Cheers.

M1 Mac Mini | Metric Halo ULN-8 | Pianoteq 7.4.2

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

This software for scaling velocity works very well and is free: http://www.trombettworks.com/velocity.php

I had a P60 for a while also, and I thought my piano sample software was all dull and lifeless (I'm sounding like a hair commercial), but found out it was the P60's narrow velocity range when I played an M-audio keyboard that had velocity curves. It was quite a pleasant surprise to actually hear tonal variations that I hadn't even known were there.

As was said, if you really bang on the keyboard, it's less of a problem. But a lot of pianists just don't play that way. BTW, Yamaha's own acoustic piano sample sounds good velocity-wise on the P60, but not the other sounds. The electric pianos, for example, you have to bang to get any dynamics.

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

Michael H wrote:

This software for scaling velocity works very well and is free: http://www.trombettworks.com/velocity.php

Yeah, I saw that, too. Unfortunately for me, it's a Windows-only application.

Last edited by Mark Williams (25-02-2010 04:21)
M1 Mac Mini | Metric Halo ULN-8 | Pianoteq 7.4.2

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

Sorry Mark,

I should have noticed you were on a Mac. Now, if you moved over to 'the dark side' you'd get all these cute little programs

Re: Pianoteq velocity respond using a Yamaha P-60 as midi controller.

Never! Never, I say!

Seriously, I "switched" to a Mac back in 2002, and it was one of the single best moves I have ever made for myself. Not just computer-wise, I'm talking life wise. It really was a transformative experience for me. Not trying to proselytize or anything, it was just a great move for me as an individual, and I have no desire to "go back," as it were.

I appreciated the humor in your post, though! Very nice.

M1 Mac Mini | Metric Halo ULN-8 | Pianoteq 7.4.2