Topic: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

The following explains how to fix the flickering/fluttering issue of the VPC1 sustain pedal.  The root of the problem is the potentiometer located inside the pedal unit. 

A while ago, I posted on this forum about a problem I was having with the VPC1 sustain pedal.  I think I've complained about this pedal unit before, too, because it feels kind of cheap.  The pedals don't have the appropriate resistance found on a real piano, and seem to be shorter in length (though I haven't actually measured).  I feel like Kawai cut corners here.  Anyway, I'm rambling, sorry.

The specific issue I was having with the pedal unit was that it was producing a fluttering or flickering effect, shooting out erratic midi data.  This data can be seen in, for example, in Logic where random 'noise' data is visible in the orange pedal line in the piano roll.  More importantly, it can be heard, especially because it rapidly triggers pianoteq's pedal sound.

I ordered a replacement from Kawai, and the issue seemed to be resolved.  However, a few weeks later, the same problem returned.  I called Kawai back and couldn't get any help.  Finally, I decided to see if I could fix it myself. 

Turns out to be pretty easy to fix (and I'm that guy who doesn't know how to change a flat tire).  The hardest part is taking the pedal unit apart.  Take the screws out from the bottom.  You have to get to the green circuit board.  However, at some point, you will get stuck.  You'll see a black box, but can't get it out.  There is a black plastic bar that you have remove first.  It's tricky to remove it.  The bar goes across the unit and has teeth that snap in in between the pedals.  This bar basically holds the whole thing together.  Once you get the bar out, the rest will easily come out. 

Now that you have removed the circuit board from the casing, you need to locate the potentiometer.  Press on the sustain pedal, and look for a tiny moving part in the top right corner of the board.  It's a (black?) cube.  Inside it, you can see two surfaces rotating against each other.  It's hard to see it moving unless you really look carefully.  But it's in the top right corner of the board.  It's two tiny circles sliding against each other.  There is a very small amount of space between the two circles.  If this surface gets dirty, you start to get erratic data.  Take some WD-40 or similar oil and spray a tiny drop between these two circles.  That's it.  Put it back together, and it should work perfectly.  I haven't had any problems with the pedal unit since doing this.  It works great now.

If you need more clarification, I can probably help you.  It's actually easier to do it than to explain how.

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Thanks for the description. I also have had problems with my VPC-1's pedal unit, though I got it replaced by Kawai without problems.

The Kawai F-30 is actually a Fatar unit, a VFP3(-D) to be precise. And it is even used as the MP-11's standard pedal unit as well as an optional accessory for the MP-7. So I don't know if Kawai really 'cut corners' here; Fatar is a very well-known supplier of keyboards and pedal units, and Kawai have been using their pedals for many years now. The F-30 also is not that much different in size and resistance to the Kawai F-10H or the Roland DP-10; all those separate pedal units are not really 'realistic', and I actually don't think that's even possible.

If there really was a widespread problem with the unit, I doubt that they would have adopted it for the MP-11. That said, it is also quite possible that a batch of pedal units has had a production flaw. I will bear the possibility to open the unit up and clean the poti in mind, however.

Last edited by kalessin (20-07-2014 21:45)
Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Thanks! I've had issues with the VPC-1 pedal too and will certainly try this out.

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Hello chaps,

If you are experiencing issues with the F-30 pedal unit included with the VPC1, please contact the Kawai distributor in your country and request the VPC pedal calibration tool.

Kind regards,
James
x

Last edited by Cute James (30-07-2014 01:46)
My mind says Kawai, but my heart says Nord.

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Hi rjawad,

I tried your solution and at least the pedal has stopped producing  random pedal release noises early in its travel. The sustain still starts responding quite late -- not really until it's pressed half-way down. Perhaps this is an issue that can be addressed with the calibration tool recommended by James. I'll look into it.

Thanks for your help!

Jan

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Anybody can write more detail on how to remove the black bar. I am stuck there.
Or if someone can post youtube, it would be perfect 

Thank you so much
Best regards
Geon

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Ok, as a matter of fact I just did this a few days ago. Hope to include some pics but have no experience with that.
When hou put a screwdriver in at the backsid, you can after some struggling get the pedal assy out with the plastic bar in. But afdter I did this, I discovered, that this par is hled in place by the small plasic squares that are visible on the front side, just next to the outmost pedals.  And L and R of the middle pedal are also two smaller squares. You hav to press them IN firmly, as there are some hooks behind them. They are conencted to this bar, and then youcan lift the bar up.
Afetr that, you have to remove the metal plate ( 4 screws) that holds the damperpedal in place. Then you can move the pedal in a way , that it no longer moves the small gearbox.
On the gerabox axis ( white Nylon) there is a small srew, which tightens the potmeter exis. it has to be loosened some turns.
Now you can unsrew the ring that holds the potmeter in place, with a small bent pair of tongues, and pull the pot out. I had contact with the swervice techn in Germany. It is a carbon layer pot...!!! Unbelievable.
So I am looking into replacing it with a plastic or cermet pot, which is difficult, as for example the wellknown Burns pots from the US have 6.35 mm axis, while the European standard is 6 mm which you'll need.

Is this enough info?? The plasitc pots have sometimes over 1.000.000 turns lifetime, while the carbon....

Greetings,
( placing the images is too difficult; I dont like this....!! sorry for you.

Geert

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Hi Geon,

Geert, above, explained it probably better than I can.  He's right about the black bar.  You can feel the 4 plastic squares on the front of the unit.  Although they don't seem to be connected to the bar, they are.  When I opened it, I tried to be very gentle with it.  However, I found no easy way to get the bar out.  I ended up prying it with a screwdriver from the back side (the side furthest from the pedals).  I had to actually bend the outer casing to get under the bar.  I was careful not to bend it too much, but I did have to bend it, because I couldn't find any other way to get the screwdriver underneath the black plastic bar.  Bend the casing enough to get under the bar with a flat screwdriver, but don't bend it too much.  That's my best advice.  It kind of snaps in, you know?  Like I said, after you get the bar out, everything pretty much comes out easily.  Put a drop of WD-40 on the potentiometer, and you'll be good to go.

By the way, it's been almost a year since I did it, and I have had no problems with the pedal unit since then.

Let me know what happens.  Good luck.  I think you'll get it.

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Hi guys

now I get better pictures to do it

Thank you very much for the replies and explanation

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Ok, this pot is of carbon type, and has much too short lifetime..the solution of course is a hall effect transducer, and here is a very well-documented article about it.

http://joflaherty.org/HallEffectSustain...%20mod.pdf

Greetings,

Geert

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

I was just about to buy a VPC1 when I started reading about problems with the (dreaded) Fatar pedal unit. So, I pulled the trigger on an MP11SE instead. The only thing that I regretted was losing the note by note velocity editing of the VPC1. However, since upgrading to Pianoteq 6 Pro, I've got that too.

Kawai MP11SE / Pianoteq Pro Studio Bundle v7.5.2 (includes every Pianoteq instrument - 21 currently)

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

This feeble accessory has been an annoyance ever since I bought the VPC-1, Jittering, squeaking...you know the routine. I followed the above tips twice but he damn thing just wouldn't  stay fixed. However I think I've finally cracked a robust solution. It involves attacking the root cause of the problem directly: the 3 steel rods which allow the pedals to be articulated. I wasted a lot of time messing around with the nylon gears and potentiometer and other stuff. Ignore all that and do this...

Follow the above disassembly instructions then remove the pedal retaining bar (4 screws). This now allows each of the pedals to be removed (2 screws on each). Careful the 3 springs don't disappear under the sofa. It's now easy to see what's going on. The rods are a really tight fit in the holes in the end of the pedal and completely unlubricated. It's the cause of the jittering AND the squeaking. I pushed the rods out and applied some teflon grease to each of them (from a bike shop). It's fairly clean stuff and really stays put. When you put it all back together make sure the sustain pedal aligns properly with the  gears otherwise it can make a nasty mechanical noise.  I kept the thing plugged into the VPC all the time so I could monitor the data stream in Logic. Once you're sure it's working reliably put the pedal assembly back in the case. Voila!

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

I have opened a recently purchased F-30 pedal and it seems to me that this new unit now has a different design around its potentiometer. I don't seem to be finding any "black cube with two surfaces sliding against each other" in it. I thought maybe I would share an image of it here to help those who want to try this solution in the future:
https://i.postimg.cc/5y69YL9N/IMG-2446.jpg

I oiled some parts anyway and the "fluttering" issue has not been resolved.

Last edited by had_mod_for (25-03-2023 10:06)

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

had_mod_for wrote:

I have opened a recently purchased F-30 pedal and it seems to me that this new unit now has a different design around its potentiometer. I don't seem to be finding any "black cube with two surfaces sliding against each other" in it. I thought maybe I would share an image of it here to help those who want to try this solution in the future:
https://i.postimg.cc/5y69YL9N/IMG-2446.jpg

I oiled some parts anyway and the "fluttering" issue has not been resolved.

I own 3 of these pedal assemblies...all 3 had issues right away.  Carefully place a drop of WD40 into the potentiometer helps a lot.  You also have to disassemble the gears and recalibrate the entire mechanism.  It's a shame Kawai doesn't force Fatar to make a higher quality pedal...Kawai just points at Fatar and they do nothing about it.

Pianoteq 8 Standard-Chord AI - Android App (displays chords)-Kawai VPC1
Real Samick (Stencil) Parlor Grand (5'6")-Focusrite 6i6 2nd

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

I don't think oiling my unit has helped much. Fortunately though I notice that the fluttering signal of my unit does not cause any issue with the main damping performance. The fluctuations are minute and the only issue that they cause is the frequent triggering of the pedal noise on Pianoteq. I am now turning off the pedal noise and the continuous damping seems to be working just fine. I own a Roland DP-10 as well (which I can directly connect to Pianoteq using a USB pedal interface), but I like the feel and look of F-30 somehow better. The DP-10 has a better signal indeed, but its plate feels to be going down "too deep" under my foot and it does not have a realistic look either.

Last edited by had_mod_for (26-03-2023 12:11)

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Hi had-mod-for, open the VPC1 Editor, look to see if your keyboard is still on version 1.0, if it is then download the latest firmware update and install it. This update, although a few years old, will correct the unstable pedal performance.

Nick

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

Hi Nick, I think that's all up to date for me: editor v1.6, VPC1 v1.05, driver 2.2. Thanks though for your help!

Last edited by had_mod_for (26-03-2023 13:06)

Re: vpc1 pedal problem and fix

All I can suggest is to modify the Pianoteq pedal curve. Maybe reducing the upper midi value below 127 to around 110?

Nick