Topic: FAQ: To correct limited/extreme dynamic output

Hi,

I am in a situation, that is adressed in the FAQ, "no ideal correction" of the velocity possible.

The velocity range of my Kawai ES3 between ppp and fff is shallow and a simple adaption would result in a curve very similar to the left diagram:

http://s7.directupload.net/images/140712/bc3t69o7.png

https://pianoteq.com/faq

I was glad to find the idea in the FAQ, which is represented by the right diagram. But in praxis it is not easy to tweak even 3 points of a velocity-curve, when variation of one point has influence on the two other points (isn't that an old mathematical problem?) :-)

I found a method for my problem and hope it is worth to share:

1.) First I draw a horizontal line in the veloctiy editor, which means one fix velocity for all keys.

2.) Then I moved this horizontal line vertically by trial and error to the point, where the overall timbre of the D4 seems to be best nailed by playing with normal strength. (here the result is 79 on the y-axis).

3.) I set 3 points in this line, one at the beginning, one at the end, and the third arbitrarily somewhere in the middle (around 64).

4.) I dragged the start-point to (0,0) and the endpoint to (127,127).

5.) By iteration I dragged the middle point in the hight of velocity 79 horizontally to left or right until I liked the timbre. To my first surprise I landed at 79 on the x-axis. But thinking of it twice, this should be expected, because by playing with normal strenght this matches the overall timbre, I liked in step 1.) (that with the constant velocity). - So probably step 5.) can be ommitted by setting x=y directly, i.e. (79,79) in my example. If you liked 69 in step 1.) the most, than (69,69) is probably the best coordinate for the middle point.

6.) For adjusting the pp to ppp dynamics, I played with reduced strength and dragged the left/start-point vertically to a point that I liked (not too muffled but also not too metallic in the bass range).

7.) For adjusting the f to mf dynamics, I dragged the right point from (127,127) vertically down, again to the point, where forte playing isn't either to bright nor muffled.

8.) My result of the procedure is Velocity = [0, 79, 127; 9, 79, 103] for the Kawai ES3.

In my opinion the importance of a well tweaked velocity can't be underestimated. I am convinced, most of the sound-problems people have with digitalpianos are velocity induced.

Btw, are any hammerweighted stagepianos in the <1000EUR range known and recommended, that *really* use the full range from (0,0) to (127,127) for ppp to fff? and not just about 70-80 values?

I'am thinking of getting a Roland RD-64 as Midicontroller forPianoteq, but is there anything known, if it uses the full range for velocity?

cheers
(& sorry for this english)

Last edited by groovy (12-07-2014 09:08)

Re: FAQ: To correct limited/extreme dynamic output

If I understand your velocity curve, you have 9 on the y axis when you are at 0 on the x axis?
If it is exact, then it is wrong. That means that you have sound even with the more soft touch. At least it is not realistic.

Re: FAQ: To correct limited/extreme dynamic output

Hi,

stamkorg wrote:

If I understand your velocity curve, you have 9 on the y axis when you are at 0 on the x axis?

yes, you understand.

If it is exact, then it is wrong. That means that you have sound even with the more soft touch. At least it is not realistic.

Theoretically it is wrong, yes. But in praxis the (0,9) never happens. A velocity value-pair (x,y) is only generated together with a note-on event and on my midi-keyboard a note-on has never the velocity 0. It is always >0. Most of the time even at ppp it is >25 (which ist part of my original problem and the scenario in the FAQ).

cheers

Re: FAQ: To correct limited/extreme dynamic output

There are keyboards that can generate note-on with velocity=0, and this does actually make sense. Both my VPC-1 and my PX-3 do this, and the MP-6 I used to have had the same feature. It is not usually needed in practice as far as I know, but on a real piano you too can press the keys 'silently', thus only lifting their dampers. Concerning music that actually makes use of this, I know none, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were pieces that do.

Last edited by kalessin (13-07-2014 16:32)
Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)

Re: FAQ: To correct limited/extreme dynamic output

kalessin wrote:

Concerning music that actually makes use of this, I know none, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were pieces that do.

Take a look at Schulhoff's "In Futurum": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c5lRRaW4Jw

There are also various pieces by modern composers which involve silent keypresses to enable the strings from which the dampers have been lifted to resonate with played notes, like the harmonic pedal in pianoteq.

Last edited by dracayr (13-07-2014 18:12)

Re: FAQ: To correct limited/extreme dynamic output

kalessin wrote:

There are keyboards that can generate note-on with velocity=0, and this does actually make sense. Both my VPC-1 and my PX-3 do this, and the MP-6 I used to have had the same feature.

Ah ok, thanks, but can you trigger also velocity=127 on these? Which means, do they have the full resolution from 0 to 127? (If these would end at velocity=80, then it would not make a real difference to a keyboard that sends a range from 25 to 105 for example.)

Re: FAQ: To correct limited/extreme dynamic output

I must correct myself in one point; the VPC-1 actually seems to send velocity 1 as lowest value, sorry. But I can use essentially the complete velocity range, I have at least seen velocities up to 125. The note-off range is more limited, this one goes from 1 to ca. 100. However, there does not seem to be much practical difference between 0 and 1 in Pianoteq: if I actually allow for a note-off velocity of 1, this leads to 'hanging' notes (because of which I do map note-off slightly to start at 5), and a note-on event with velocity 1 still leads to lifted dampers with no sound, so I have essentially access to the full dynamic range.

Last edited by kalessin (13-07-2014 19:06)
Pianoteq 6 Standard (Steinway D&B, Grotrian, Petrof, Steingraeber, Bechstein, Blüthner, K2, YC5, U4, Kremsegg 1&2, Karsten, Electric, Hohner)