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Topic: Request: Kawai ES100

Hi there,

Newbie to the forum and I just bought a new controller: a Kawai ES100. I love the action on it and it's very affordable.

Anyone here want to share his/her preferred velocity curve for this model?

Thanks in advance!
Antal

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Re: Request: Kawai ES100

Today I tried an experiment on my ES100. Instead of calibrating the keyboard using the calibration assistant or another hands-on approach. I created a MIDI file with various middle Cs at increasing velocities ranging from 2 to 127 (in steps of 16). This MIDI file I fed into the ES100 with the Default Piano Preset (Program 1) and recorded it using my Steinberg UR22.

Then fed the same MIDI into Pianoteq and tried to roughly match volume and timbre to the recording by ears, while using the D4 Daily Practice Preset. This resulted in a curve like this:

Velocity = [0, 16, 32, 80, 96, 127; 0, 8, 36, 86, 108, 127]

The goal was matching the playability of the built-in piano sample of ES100 with Pianoteq while using the ES100 action and the result was quite okay for a first try.

Note: This is nowhere near a refined setup, it doesn't take neither bass nor treble notes into account. But if you own an ES100, you may like to try it out. I'm glad for any feedback on this.

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Re: Request: Kawai ES100

jtsn
Hmm.. Do I understand this correctly, you created velocity curve for ES100's key action without even touch the keys?

I have ES100 and use default linear curve from (0,0) to (127, 127). It works fine. Sometimes, I little raise the curve, changing the last point to, say, (124, 127), because I can't reach 127 velocity on my ES100 even with hardest touch (maybe it possible but I don't eant destroy my piano). Maximum velocity that I can reach is about 120.

Last edited by Ross (03-02-2015 21:32)
Combine velocity curves: http://output.jsbin.com/cukeme/9

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Re: Request: Kawai ES100

Ross wrote:

jtsn
Hmm.. Do I understand this correctly, you created velocity curve for ES100's key action without even touch the keys?

Yes, that was the point of this experiment. Matching it to the ES100 internal sound, so I can switch back and forth between them. smile

I have ES100 and use default linear curve from (0,0) to (127, 127). It works fine.

Linear is lacking in responsiveness for me, it works better on a non-weighted action I think.

Sometimes, I little raise the curve, changing the last point to, say, (124, 127), because I can't reach 127 velocity on my ES100 even with hardest touch (maybe it possible but I don't eant destroy my piano). Maximum velocity that I can reach is about 120.

My ES100 action produces up to about 100 during regular playing and up to 115-127 by applying force. Similarly there is a pianissimo range up to about 20-25. Kawai adjusted the internal sound generator to that, while a linear PT is too loud on the low end and and missing impact on the upper end.

Slightly adjusting the velocity curve by ears improved this already. When I have the time, I'll try to refine it further, maybe using audio analyzer software to get a more objective picture on more control points, instead of depending on my ears - while also taking other octaves into account.

One advantage of a DP over a pure MIDI controller is that the internal sound perfectly matches the action. But Pianoteq sounds better, of course. I try to get the best of both worlds.

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Re: Request: Kawai ES100

Ross wrote:

So, if your method doesn't take in consideration physical properties of keyboard action and its sensors, your curve is not a "keyboard curve" (that adjust response of keyboard's action), your curve is "preset curve" (that just tries to imitate target sound, in your case -- internal ES100 piano sound).

I didn't considerate the physical properties, but the manufacturer already did.

PT expects a linear action, which the ES100 doesn't quite have. So Kawai either adjusted the their action to match their piano preset or they adjusted the piano preset to match their AHA-IV-F action.

The idea behind my approach is to undo their adjustments or to reproduce their adjustments in PT. (The difference between both is just the algebraic sign.)

The goal is of course to enhance the playability of PT using the ES100 keyboard. If my first results weren't convincing when trying the curve hands-on using the action, I would have thrown them away without making a single post here. smile

Moreover, effect of your curve depends on others Pianoteq's settings. So, I recommend you to fix other settings and post the FXP file instead of just velocity curve.

Well, I have only the Stage version, so there isn't much to adjust. As I said I used the D4 Daily Practice preset on default settings and matched minimum and maximum volume to my ES100 recording before starting. It resulted in a Dynamic Range of 40 dB in Pianoteq, which is also the default setting in that preset.

I just posted my first results after investing an hour or two into it. If I continue to publish further refined curves/FXPs depends on the feedback I get from people actually testing it. I also take into consideration, that this approach may go nowhere. Then I won't waste any more time on it.

Last edited by jtsn (04-02-2015 17:24)

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Re: Request: Kawai ES100

jtsn wrote:

My ES100 action produces up to about 100 during regular playing and up to 115-127 by applying force.

Regular playing is mp and mf dynamics? mp and mf should be about 60-80. Do you sure that you use "normal"  internal velocity curve of ES100?

Last edited by Ross (16-02-2015 17:50)
Combine velocity curves: http://output.jsbin.com/cukeme/9

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Re: Request: Kawai ES100

Ross wrote:
jtsn wrote:

My ES100 action produces up to about 100 during regular playing and up to 115-127 by applying force.

Regular playing is mp and mf dynamics? mp and mf should be about 60-80. Do you sure that you use "normal"  internal velocity curve of ES100?

Regular playing meant anything between and including p and f. Playing mp/mf happens around 50 to 64 with the "Normal" touch setting and the internal sound seems to reflect that. In the 64-80 range it gets quite bright already.

The medium range moves above 64 with the "Light" touch setting and allows reaching 127 by pressing hard, but the silent note detection also moves up, so it's difficult to play velocities below 45 then.

Currently I'm using a more rounded sinus-like curve:

Velocity = [0, 16, 32, 48, 64, 80, 96, 111, 127; 0, 10, 28, 50, 72, 93, 112, 124, 127]

Maybe there isn't "the" curve for the ES100, as build quality seem to vary quite stark on Kawai instruments.

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Re: Request: Kawai ES100

My base curve: [0, 114, 127; 0, 127, 127]

Last edited by Ross (16-03-2015 18:07)
Combine velocity curves: http://output.jsbin.com/cukeme/9