Topic by Mr Keys

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Topic: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

Greetings from New Zealand - my first visit to this forum.

I've just purchased Pianoteq and downloaded the "add-ons" thinking they probably wouldn't suit my studio's standard genre (contempory Pop/Country). Imagine my astonishment when I discovered the S.Erard (1922) - it's exactly the tone & brightness I've been looking for (I got close with SampleTekk's White Grand - my staple piano until now).

I know it's hugely subjective, this "piano thing" - but I'm really impressed with this add-on (and of course the modelling technology behind it).

My question: has anyone else noticed the long release-characteristic on D#6 to G6 (C4 = middle C) - they do not match the release-characteristics of the other notes just below them when played staccato with the sustain pedal off - and are causing me problems with bluesy grace notes, which tend to "muddie together". I accept that this was probably a quirk of the original model, and is in no way a criticism - I just need to know how to shorten the release-decay of these notes.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Mike.

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

Hi Mike, thanks for the kind words, the Erard is also one of my beloved presets, it has just a magic sound

This instrument had less dampers than other pianos usually have, this is why the notes you mention wouldn’t stop. I must admit that it can be a bit annoying. So we took the saw for cutting some more pieces of wood, cut dampers in a soft felt strip and added some extra dampers to a new add-on that you can download from our support page, it is called “Erard with extended dampers”.

Btw, if ever you want to change the efficiency of the dampers, you can do it by modifying the "Key release duration" in the options menu (bottom right of the interface).

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by Mr Keys

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

Hello Guillaume

I have downloaded the "extra dampers Erard" - and it is now perfect

Thank you so much - you have made my day!

There is something about this particular preset that is very pleasing.

Who would have thought - a 1922 piano that sits perfectly in a contempory pop mix!

One more question: I can't seem to find a way to control volume via CC #7 (I'm using Pianoteq as a VST inside Cubase on a networked slave PC).
I've looked under options/midi/assign predefined controllers, but where do I assign Pianoteq's volume to respond to CC#7?

Is this possible?

Many thanks once again.
Mike

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

Phillipe, you are the only person on Earth actually reshaping a digital piano so quick, just to satisfy a customer.

  May I ask a small reworked add-an too?   :-)

   I would like that the Bechstein a had some change in the bass, like reducing the hammer hardness just for the bass range, and a little for the begining of middle range.
   I know the original one was tuned that way, by years, for pop purposes, and works very well for that, but I would like to have the Bechstein add-on in a warmer softer version for classic.

    Would that be possible?

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

Mr Keys wrote:

I've looked under options/midi/assign predefined controllers, but where do I assign Pianoteq's volume to respond to CC#7?

In the options menu, open the Midi menu and select "assign predefined controlers". Do not hesitate contacting us through our support form if you need more help.

Beto-Music wrote:

I would like that the Bechstein a had some change in the bass, like reducing the hammer hardness just for the bass range, and a little for the begining of middle range.

This is a much more complicate thing to do. As you know, offering this possibility to the user is something that we have in our projects, but for now I suggest (apart using the EQ) to use two instances of Pianoteq as proposed in some other threads.

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

I mean just another add-on "worked edition", like you did with the Sebatien Erard, creating the Erard extended dampers", but in this case with the hammer hardness already adjusted to a different configuration.

   How is possible to use two instances of pianoteq avoiding each model palying the same keys together, on Cubase?

guillaume wrote:

This is a much more complicate thing to do. As you know, offering this possibility to the user is something that we have in our projects, but for now I suggest (apart using the EQ) to use two instances of Pianoteq as proposed in some other threads.

Reply by s12a

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

I have a question: is the S.Erard preset supposed to sound a little bit louder compared other ones?
Compared to historical pianos it certainly would be, but I find it weird that when I play with most C1 and C2 grand piano presets I have to add a little more volume to have the same amount of loudness I have with the Erard (or viceversa, when I play with other presets with the right amount of volume, I need to lower it a little when I select the S.Erard ones).

Reply by Philippe Guillaume

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

you are right, it might be a bit too loud. Note that it has a different dynamics than the C2, so it is not possible to have it equal loud as the C2 from pianissimo to fortissimo.

Philippe Guillaume's Website

Reply by s12a

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

guillaume wrote:

you are right, it might be a bit too loud. Note that it has a different dynamics than the C2, so it is not possible to have it equal loud as the C2 from pianissimo to fortissimo.

I'm aware that the C2 has better dynamics; what I meant is that the S.Erard sounds in general noticeably louder, especially at medium velocities. Nothing that cannot be corrected by fiddling with sound settings, but in terms of realism I think it would be better to have correct loudness between different presets.

The real sound difference between a 3meter concert piano and a baby grand cannot certainly be reproduced with pianoteq (and in general, with normal sound speakers/headphones) without serious usability compromises (as for example a concert piano fortissimo is almost deafening), but a larger piano should in average (from medium to high velocities?) sound realistically louder than a smaller one.

Reply by Beto-Music

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

Forgive any possible mistakes of mine, but a large Grand piano will be louder than a Baby Grand, to a audience, due large ressonance box. Maybe would be like comparing Pianoteq connected to a small speaker and to a large apeakers. 
  So, to reproduce the Huge Grand piano or a Baby Grand piano loudness, fora audience, maybe it's in many aspectsa matter of speaker'ss power.

   About fortíssimos loudness, I agree that all presets need louder FF and FFF.  Maybe the piano size adjust would sound more coherent if the dinamic, in terms of loudness, was changed along piano size, specially from F to FFF. Since we can't chage the speaker's power by slider would not be exactly  change the size of a real Grand Pinao, but would help to be more convincible.

I created a curves adjustment and placed in a FXP that I called Dynamic Thunder, and it's in the files section of this forum.  It helped to get louder FF and FFF, by reducing a bit the the other velocities (PPP to F) and increasing little the dynamics slider.
    What ahbout try it?

Reply by feline1

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

I just wanted to add that the Erard is certainly my favourite Pianoteq instrument at the moment, the one I used the most -
I can get a mellow, gentle tone out of it that sits very nice in pop music, where some of the more classic pianos would be too strident.
I usually turn the hammer hardness away down, reduce the piano size and crank up the unison detuning to give it a more "old upright" sound.

(I am still looking forward to the day when Pianoteq model a real upright though ;0)

Reply by Mr Keys

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Re: Add on: S.Erard (1922)

I agree with feline 1

I've used the Erard in a couple of recent pop mixes and it holds its own very nicely - even in Rock mixes, if you harden the hammers and add a little boost around 5kHz she cuts like a knife - lovely - it's become my "go to" Pianoteq preset.

Another thing I'm loving about Pianoteq is the Dynamics control - this is the most elegant piano compressor one could wish for - without the pumping & side-effects of conventional compression.

I'm not ready to completely abandon my trusty "White Grand" - there's still the odd client who feels it sounds more "real" than Pianoteq - but I'm excited at the future prospects for Pianoteq.

Thanks again

Mike.