Topic by jarosujo

  • Avatar
  • jarosujo
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 17-11-2013
  • Posts: 56

Topic: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Hello,
I just received Intel NUC mini PC few days ago and would like to share my experience using it with Pianoteq.
It is model DC3217BY, which has i3 CPU inside. It costs new 140€ as barebone system (no RAM, SSD, wifi). I bought it one month old (so basically new) with 4GB RAM, 32GB SSD and wifi/BT card inside for 190 €.

Installation:
When I saw it first, I was shocked how small it was. Installation of Windows 8.1 Pro from USB drive went smooth and fast, 10 minutes and system was ready. After that I installed Pianoteq and drivers for my external usb sound card Kontakt Audio 2. That was all, I decided to use it as pure "sound module" for PT, I even disabled wifi/BT card. Boot time is excellent, it takes 13 seconds from pressing power button to desktop screen with icons on Win 8.1.

Usage:
The way I use it is very simple - no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor. All I do is I press the button on the top to wake it up or put it back to sleep state. It takes about 2-3 seconds from pressing to button until I can play. It is about the same time it takes my Kawai CL36 to start after pressing power button. You can even keep it idle 24/7, as the power consumption is very low (more below). In case of some problem (power shortage...), I set PT to start automatically after reboot. You can also use remote desktop from other PC/phone/tablet in case needed.

Sound quality:
Thanks to external usb sound card Kontakt Audio 2 it is excellent. This sound card is so small that you can wear it in your jeans pocket. Connecting is very easy, usb cable to NUC, one stereo jack to headphones and other one to powered monitors. It has also power connector, but it is not needed with NUC. NUC doesn't have separate audio output connector, sound output goes through hdmi or thunderbolt (I think). I am not sure about sound quality/latency when using on-board audio, but these are quite good these days.

Latency: 
I set sample rate to 48000 Hz, process buffer 64 samples, USB buffer 1 ms. Total latency is 5.8 ms, which is very good, basically I can not feel any delay at all. Kontakt Audio 2 drivers are rock solid, I never had any issue with them.

PT performance regarding CPU:
CPU used in my NUC is Core i3 low power 3217U version, frequency 1,8 GHz. It runs at 800 Mhz when idle. In PT I use D4 bright preset, stereophonic sound and small hall reverb.
First I just played myself few easy songs - no problems. Then I downloaded Moonlight Sonata midi and played it with pedal down all the time. Polyphony usage reached about 80 and CPU usage was about 50%. Than I tried He is a Pirate midi and played it again with sustain pedal down all the time - polyphony usage reached 223, CPU usage at about 80-90% and again no problems (no red lines) at all. No dropouts, nothing.  I am really surprised how well CPU handled even that last crazy midi test.

NUC Power consuption:
Sleep state - 0W (well, other reviews state about 2.5W)
Idle in Win 8.1 - 11W
Me playing with PT - 14W
Midi played in PT (crazy one) - 18W
Not sure why my device didn't measure anything in sleep state, I just guess it was really really low :-)

Final conclusion:
Yes, you can buy laptop for about 350€, which has display, similar CPU, 500GB HDD, keyboard, touchpad... But I don't need any of that.
I just need something cheap, small, noiseless and power efficient, which delivers Pianoteq sound to my Headphones/Monitors in 2-3 seconds after pressing power button.
And NUC delivers all of that.

P.S. Sorry for poor quality pictures, my hdmi-dvi cable is damaged, so there are strange colors and other artifacts.

NUC and Kontakt Audio 2 - both of them are very small.
http://i59.tinypic.com/16i75av.jpg


Total latency 5.8ms means no noticeable delay at all.
http://i62.tinypic.com/sl41z4.jpg


No dropouts when playing crazy midi with sustain pedal down all the time(223 polyphony). Audio load (CPU usage)about 80-90%.
http://i61.tinypic.com/2daadso.jpg


11.7W power consuption when idle in Win 8.1 (about 14-15W when playing with Pianoteq)
http://i60.tinypic.com/2w3svog.jpg

Reply by etalmor

  • Avatar
  • etalmor
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Haifa, Israel
  • Registered: 15-05-2007
  • Posts: 238

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Great setup and review!

Thanks for that, I was hoping to hear someone actually try it out.
Probably now you'd want to hook up some Korg Nano (or such) USB controller to get some control back ...

If you have any updates to your setup I'd be interested in seeing to them.

Thanks
Eran.

M-Audio Profire 610 / Roland Fp-3 / Reaper / PianoTeq!
www.myspace.com/etalmor

etalmor's Website

Reply by Jake Johnson

  • Avatar
  • Jake Johnson
  • Member
  • Offline
  • From: Atlanta
  • Registered: 04-05-2007
  • Posts: 4,491

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

That's a great looking setup. Reading the specs for this mini pc, I see that it has two usb connections. One goes to the midi keyboard, so to add both a monitor and a typing keyboard with a trackpad, I guess a hub would be needed.

Do you have it set up to load Pianoteq automatically on boot-up?

Reply by jarosujo

  • Avatar
  • jarosujo
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 17-11-2013
  • Posts: 56

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

etalmor wrote:

Great setup and review!

Thanks for that, I was hoping to hear someone actually try it out.
Probably now you'd want to hook up some Korg Nano (or such) USB controller to get some control back ...

If you have any updates to your setup I'd be interested in seeing to them.

Thanks
Eran.

I don't plan to use any usb controllers at the moment, no need for it.

Reply by jarosujo

  • Avatar
  • jarosujo
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 17-11-2013
  • Posts: 56

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Jake Johnson wrote:

That's a great looking setup. Reading the specs for this mini pc, I see that it has two usb connections. One goes to the midi keyboard, so to add both a monitor and a typing keyboard with a trackpad, I guess a hub would be needed.

Do you have it set up to load Pianoteq automatically on boot-up?

Yes, Pianoteq is in Win 8.1 startup folder, so it starts automatically. NUC has 3 USB ports - one used by piano, one by external sound card and one is empty. When I was setting it up, I used hub to connect mouse and keyboard. Monitor is connected by hdmi or thunderbolt.

Reply by Lylo

  • Avatar
  • Lylo
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 30-09-2013
  • Posts: 184

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

And no problem without screen ? Never, never ?

Last edited by Lylo (26-02-2014 09:45)

Reply by jarosujo

  • Avatar
  • jarosujo
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 17-11-2013
  • Posts: 56

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Never ever :-)

Reply by Mossy

  • Avatar
  • Mossy
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 22-01-2014
  • Posts: 200

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

You can always RDP/VNC into a headless machine -- especially with a smartphone or tablet if you are at the piano instead of a computer.

https://soundcloud.com/mossy456/

Reply by CuriousDan

  • Avatar
  • CuriousDan
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 19-01-2009
  • Posts: 79

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Thanks for the review! My next PC will for sure be a NUC, also for some DAW work.

Reply by jarosujo

  • Avatar
  • jarosujo
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 17-11-2013
  • Posts: 56

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Model I have is very cheap, only 140€. For some strange reason, basically the same model but with GLAN connector and 2x HDMI (I have 1x HDMI and 1x Thunderbolt) costs 240€. i5 version, which I would recommend for DAW, is even more. At that price point you are getting close to laptop prices.

Reply by Gerhard

  • Avatar
  • Gerhard
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 01-03-2014
  • Posts: 6

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Hello,
thank you very much, jarosujo, for sharing your experiences! This indeed sounds very interesting and promising!
Would you mind posting the Pianoteq Performance index when playing by yourself and with various midi files? Is this model enough for some years (including new Pianoteq versions still to come) or would it be a good idea to invest an extra ~120€ for the new D34010WYKH model with Haswell processor?
And what about the fan noise when playing? Is it noticeable or even annoying?
Thanks in advance!
-Gerhard

Last edited by Gerhard (01-03-2014 13:06)

Reply by jarosujo

  • Avatar
  • jarosujo
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 17-11-2013
  • Posts: 56

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Regarding noise - this NUC is basically noiseless, I can not hear anything at all. Only if I put my ear like 1 cm from the unit, then I can hear fan is spinning inside.
Performance index I measured when playing He is a pirate midi was 25. Here is the link:
http://freemidi.org/includes/tng/pub/tN...20bbf8b33d
There was no problem during playback, even when polyphony reached over 220.

Reply by Gerhard

  • Avatar
  • Gerhard
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 01-03-2014
  • Posts: 6

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Thank you very much! This gives me a bit of a clue of what to expect from that machine. It’s still amazing (also the polyphony reaching over 220!!) for 140 “bucks” (can you say that to euros as well? ).
By the way, the link did not work, as they seem to include some session id or whatever, but I search for it and here you go (for anybody else who wants to compare): http://freemidi.org/download-12652-328

Last edited by Gerhard (02-03-2014 14:48)

Reply by jarosujo

  • Avatar
  • jarosujo
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 17-11-2013
  • Posts: 56

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Yes, that's the correct midi, thanks.
I am just learning how to play piano, started 2 years ago. Just going through Sight-reading books with my teacher. I am quite sure that power of this NUC will be enough for me for many many years to come, as currently I use about 30-50 polyphony maximum. Please keep in mind, that I have only STAGE version of PT, so I don't play with more microphones, which is for sure more demanding. Also I didn't install any software except PT and sound card drivers (no antivir...) and I disabled wifi card. I just want CPU to focus on PT only :-)
140€ is for barebone system, with RAM and SSD it's about 200€.

Last edited by jarosujo (02-03-2014 18:12)

Reply by Gerhard

  • Avatar
  • Gerhard
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 01-03-2014
  • Posts: 6

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

It’s great you are learning to play the piano! Just an advice from “someone” (me) who learned on an acoustic (upright) piano: Keyboards / digital pianos are great, Pianoteq is amazing, but there is still a big difference to an acoustic instrument, especially a grand piano (I suppose the problem is rather with the keyboard feeling on one side and the speakers on the other side, and not really with the sound generation, at least not with Pianoteq). So if you ever have the opportunity of playing on an acoustic piano or even owning one for yourself, I’d highly recommend you to jump at it

Multiple microphones wouldn’t be needed in my scenario either, probably I’d even need to switch down to mono (which would be a real pity, but the circumstances don’t allow for stereo). It would as well just use Pianoteq, and maybe display some sheets on the screen, which is not CPU demanding at all …

Reply by klaberte

  • Avatar
  • klaberte
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 03-04-2018
  • Posts: 34

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

Sorry to ping an old topic, but wondering if others can share their experiences setting up Pianoteq on a NUC or other small PCs.  If you have tried, and the results were good or bad, please share.

Thanks!

Reply by meper

  • Avatar
  • meper
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 31-12-2017
  • Posts: 8

Re: Intel NUC with Pianoteq - mini review

klaberte wrote:

Sorry to ping an old topic, but wondering if others can share their experiences setting up Pianoteq on a NUC or other small PCs.  If you have tried, and the results were good or bad, please share.

Thanks!

Hi!

I installed Pianoteq on a NUC7i5BRK running Win10 this weekend.
Performance wise it's great. I have it running Cantabile which I have loaded up with two instances of Pianoteq, three EQ plugins and Valhalla room reverb. No hiccups at all running everything at 48kHz, 64 sample buffer.

Pianoteq performance index is measured at 122.

The not so great is the fan and electronic noise from the NUC, but there are some things that can reduce them. The fan noise can be reduced to okayish levels by adjusting the fan profile in BIOS. The default settings were terrible (at least if you are planning on sitting close to it).

The electronic noise seems to originate from several components inside the NUC. One source is the LED driver and decreasing the LED brightness in BIOS under power settings improves it greatly. The remaining whining/whizzing noise seems to be reduced if you replace the PSU. I tested with an Innergie universal power adapter and the noise was reduced by perhaps half (I didn't measure exactly), enough that I think I won't be bothered by it at least.

It's not a cheap solution though, but it does deliver performance wise :-)

Last edited by meper (22-04-2018 23:46)