Fatar Numa / Numa Nero

I actually owned both at one time, but I settled on the nero because of the wooden keys...it just felt like a real piano to me. The unique velocity curve learning was the reason I chose that model in the first place, and it was the right choice for my finickiness. It is the best piano key-bed with after pressure in its class.

The bad news is that the modulation wheel is pretty worthless since it is located on the side...idiotic engineering decision. I purchased a continuous foot controller that helps. There is also an issue with the after pressure in that the values can be erratic between 0 and about 40. I cannot get a consistent smooth response, but it seems to be getting better as I use it.

If you can get it for a decent price it will be worth it. I tried many pianos before I settled on this...if you are a piano player you should love it.

JR

Nile: FWIW I have a SL-880pro (previous gen to yours I believe) with a Roland continuous pedal (forgot the reference). I also noticed that I couldn't get the full 0-127 range with the pedal hooked up to the SL keyboard's volume input.  My workaround was using the continuous input on another keyboard, an Axiom 25 (M-audio) which somehow does work with the Roland pedal as expected.  Selecting the correct MIDI signal for the sustain pedal in Pianoteq is a snap. 

Just thought I'd share in case you have an extra keyboard or controller lying around, and haven't thought of trying, so you can maybe enjoy half-pedalling while you shop around!

Chris

All of the other midi information is stable (velocity, program change, continuous, etc.) I just think it is an issue with the physical after-touch mechanism. I discussed this thoroughly with a fatar engineer and he insisted that "this is the correct behavior" but I do not agree.

When you look at other keyboards, listen closely to the velocity difference between the black and white keys (use a midi monitor too). The numa is the only system that allows velocity learning that not only learns your velocity style, but provides a separate map for black and white keys.

For piano feel it is the best, but for midi control it is mediocre. It does have some nice split/layer features, but you may have to supplement this with a smaller controller...one that has a proper pitch and mod wheel.

JR

It definitely sends note off or else it would be unusable. If you mean note off velocity, most controllers do not send that...if you need that specifically you need to search for it. I do remember one ranting review about the lack of this feature, but it is a very specific feature that is rarely used.

JR

Yes sorry I meant "Note Off Velocity". Thanks for the info, much appreciated

Hi Doug,

It's funny you should mention this pedal, I was lookng at this for a long while but I eventually decided not to buy it because it seemed pretty glitchy! Its good that you managed to get a second one and it is working good for you. I had been reading all sorts of reviews in relation to people opening up this pedal and soldering etc to try and get it working that I was eventually scared off. It really does look like a perfect solution for a piano player though, I am quite suprised that more companies are not producing a product like this, especially in the age of the psoftware piano.

I appreciate the recommendation and it's definitely something I have my eye on...
Thanks,
Nile

Interesting. 3 TRS jacks suggest that all 3 pedals are continuous. However, "only 3 jacks" suggests that it's hard to use unless you have a Roland or other suitable controller to hook it up to.

The CME's single-cable USB hookup is still a big plus in that respect.

I'd be curious to know if such a setup would indeed work (Roland triple pedal hooked directly into a Fatar/Studiologic keyboard).  My experience with combining these brands (as described above, and as Nile describes as well) is that the electrical values given by the Roland pedal(s) don't match what the keyboard is expecting on its continuous input.  Hence the limited 0-100 or so range in MIDI values, which is of little use.

I'm sure the pedal(s) could be hacked by replacing the adjustable resistor with one of a different value, but it would be nice to know which combos actually work out of the box

I'd forgotten that the VMK188 has as many pedal inputs, but, if I recall correctly, these are designed to work with Fatar's own pedal sets: http://www.studiologic.net/footpedals.html

So thank you for pointing out the triple Roland pedal; it would be nice however to know if and how it actually works with Fatar keybeds (and what hacks might be required).  That's why I mentioned that the USB hookup seems like such an obvious simplification to bypass all these technical idiosyncrasies!

Cheers,
Chris

Thank you for all the helpful advice...

You can stop the value anywhere you like...the strings and soundboard resonate very similar to real half-damper.

JR

My experience with the NUMA was also a bad one.  I cound NOT get half-pedaling to work and the action was not very piano-like to me.  And finding a pedal that could work with this board (after a significant bit of fiddling and tweaking) was beyond a small effort.  I found it completely unacceptable that the sustain pedal they ship with the board is a momentary switch!!  WTF!

AND people keep assuming that this board has wooden keys... they are wood EMBEDDED keys!  I think this is Fatar's marketing terminology for a laminate or something that they put on the sides of the keys.  They definitely are NOT full wooden keys.

If you have already ordered one, GOOD LUCK with it.  If not, consider this yet another negative review of this board.  It was sooooo close to being the perfect thing (shiny black case, minimal controls, VERY piano looking)...

Curt

Well, its a bit misinformed...even "real" wooden keys are not all wood. My point was simply that the wooden keybed is better than the regular, and it has a very pleasant touch. The velocity curves are also the most versitile I could find.

I picked mine up for a bargain price, so I can overlook some of it's short-comings.

JR

JR, is the feel of the Fatar NUMA (White) identicle to that of the NUMA Nero? The reason I ask is, if indeed there really is only laminate wood on the sides of the keys rather than the wood making up a large part of the body of the key(s), should not the feel of the keys and the otherwise identicle action of both the NUMA and the NUMA Nero feel indistinguishably similar?

If they do feel exactly the same, then I could save myself £70 and get the White NUMA! After all, it's the feel that I'm after as I only wish to use it with PianoTeq as a piano keyboard!!!

Advice and opinions would be greatly appreciated,

regards,

Chris

Thank you John, Nero it is!

HELP!!!

I'm trying to get by Kawai F-20 Double Pedal set sync'd up with PianoTeq and my NUMA Nero. I have managed to assign the pedals so everything works in the NUMA Nero, but now, having mapped the pedals correctly, when play the pedal, the software pedals go down - so far so good - but when I lift my foot back up, the pedals do not follow!

The potentiometer has a range of 6 showing values of 0 - 5 or 122 - 127 in the midi log stream (depending on the polarity setting).

The soft pedal switch shows 5 and 22 or 122 and 105 in the midi log stream (again, depending on the polarity setting).

Is my pedal mis-matched? It IS made by Fatar! I don't know whether or not I should send it back (Not the Nero, the pedal) or if I'm missing something in the setting up process???

HELP!!!

I've assigned sustain to c#64 and una-corda/soft to c#67

Thank you John

I have succeeded in getting an increase in midi range of the sustain pedal by pulling the jack out slightly. However, it is far from full range nor is it reliable!

Initially, I separated the signals of the stereo jack on the F-20 double pedal using an adapter (stereo- jack-socket-to-left-and-right-phono-plugs). Then I connected two phono-to-mono-jack adapters (one two each phono plug).

I'm actually thinking I should use phono-to-stereo-jack adapters? After all, the spec on the studiologic/fatar website says 'stereo pedal jack sockets'. Would this explain why I get better results when pulling the jacks back out slightly?

Anyhow, I've ordered two phono-to-stereo-jack adapters to see whether they do the trick!

Opinions John?

Thank you.

I don't have measuring equipment for voltage.

I was seeing a range from 127 down to almost 40 with the sustain jack slightly pulled out. I think the F-20 is capable of almost if not all the range. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that because the jack is not firmly in contact with the terminals, the current is not flowing optimally. This would explain why I've only managed 127->40 (0-<97).

I'll report back on the stereo jack adapters.

regards,

Chris

I've ordered the CME GPP-3. It just so happens that the manufacturers have moved to a new factory and have been in the process of tooling it up. They are going to continue producing this dedicated pedal

CME stories can be very different.. I have a GPP-3 and have never had any problems with it yet.. have had it for 2 years now...
I also have a CME UF-80 keyboard which is great too but did indeed have firmware upgrade problems with that one.. in the end that seemed to have to do with USB not giving enough power while updating. Since then I have a separate power adapter and it has worked great since...

cheers
Hans

Excuse me that I'm a bit late coming to this topic. I've got the Fatar VMK188plus myself, and I think the action is excellent- it's the TP40GH non-wooden action. If the Nero action is superior to this, then it must be truly amazing.

Hopefully your Nero pedal messages will work better than mine, because the single most annoying thing about my keyboard is that the pedal inputs are unreliable, and they send a zero message unexpectedly every now and then for no reason. You can be using the sustain, and it just stops sustaining occasionally while the damper pedal is down. Not good. My Yamaha FC3 ranges from 10-113 or so on my Fatar, but gives full range 0-127 on my Yamaha P85. Even when I narrow the range on the Fatar, or assign different controllers for sustain, a zero gets sent sporadically. I'd be interested in knowing  if you come across this oddity yourself with the Numa.